THIS is how you drive a Ruf CTR in Nurburgring!!

[sanmusa]

Probably a repost, but a worthy one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg

BTW, what's up with the crazy people riding mopeds on the ring?

 

[Eric.]

How to Tell if You are Driving a Porsche:

1. You are steering left through a right turn.
...
...
...

 

[motortrend]

How to Tell if You are Driving a Porsche:

1. You are steering left through a right turn.
...
...
...

2. You are accelerating instead of lifting off the throttle

 

[nobuffalo]

It really is an amazing video, and some of the best driving i've ever seen.

This, and the rally video of Walter Röhrl on the Ring in a Porsche, never get old.

 

[NISM0_SKYLINE]

How to Tell if You are Driving a Porsche:

1. You are steering left through a right turn.
...
...
...

3. You can't drive it in GT5.

 

[sanmusa]

 

[kikie]

Probably a repost, but a worthy one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg

BTW, what's up with the crazy people riding mopeds on the ring?

Because it's actually an unidirectional public toll road. Even touring busses filled with tourist drive on the 'ring. It's a very dangerous place to be if you have a very big ego, no discipline and a fast car. Many people get killed on the 'ring every year because they don't know how to drive, have a huge ego, a fast car or motorcycle and like to show off.

 

[sanmusa]

Because it's actually an unidirectional public toll road. Even touring busses filled with tourist drive on the 'ring. It's a very dangerous place to be if you have a very big ego, no discipline and a fast car. Many people get killed on the 'ring every year because they don't know how to drive, have a huge ego, a fast car or motorcycle and like to show off.

I know it's a public road, I just think it's crazy to be put putting around in a moped when there are high performance cars zoomin by you at over 100 mph. The Ring is known for being a dangerous road, especially on the Touristenfahrten days, and you wold never see me there on anything that doesn't have metal around me.

 

[Stotty]

Stefan Rosser FTW 👍

NO helmet, slip on shoes and white socks

 

[Small_Fryz]

Never gets old 👍

 

[motortrend]

Just found this Worth a watch if you like RUF
EDIT:
2ND PART
Last and best part:

 

[McLaren]

I know it's a public road, I just think it's crazy to be put putting around in a moped when there are high performance cars zoomin by you at over 100 mph. The Ring is known for being a dangerous road, especially on the Touristenfahrten days, and you wold never see me there on anything that doesn't have metal around me.

It's why the Germans drive with a thing called common courtesy & no tolerance for asshats. People have been banned from the 'Ring before for stupidity.

 

[sanmusa]

I do my best to drive like that here too, I hate people who drive on the left lane and make you pass on the right. Still, mopeds on the Ring is stupid.

 

[Danoff]

Watched the video in the OP.

My take - what a horrible car. You know you've failed miserably at making a car when the driver has to do THAT to keep it on the road. Ridiculous. How that could be considered a finished product and not a botched attempt is beyond me. Terrible engineering. If I had responsibility for any part of the design of that car, the video would make me hang my head in shame.

 

[Azuremen]

Watched the video in the OP.

My take - what a horrible car. You know you've failed miserably at making a car when the driver has to do THAT to keep it on the road. Ridiculous. How that could be considered a finished product and not a botched attempt is beyond me. Terrible engineering. If I had responsibility for any part of the design of that car, the video would make me hang my head in shame.

I take it you've never driven a car with the engine behind the driver, have you?

 

[motortrend]

Look at the videos I posted, the driver is clearly having fun, even though it's some slightly crazy fun. It is undeniably a fast car too

 

[Danoff]

I take it you've never driven a car with the engine behind the driver, have you?

I used to own a car with the engine behind the driver.

Look at the videos I posted, the driver is clearly having fun, even though it's some slightly crazy fun. It is undeniably a fast car too

If you have to do what he's doing to make it work, you're doing it wrong.

(and by you're doing it wrong, I mean they're doing it wrong when setting up the car)

 

[McLaren]

Watched the video in the OP.

My take - what a horrible car. You know you've failed miserably at making a car when the driver has to do THAT to keep it on the road. Ridiculous. How that could be considered a finished product and not a botched attempt is beyond me. Terrible engineering. If I had responsibility for any part of the design of that car, the video would make me hang my head in shame.

That was always part of their charm, for me. My father back in the 80's wanted a 911, but had never driven anything like them because of the engine placement. He was advised to buy a 944 Turbo as it would be a quick car as well, & a little more balanced.

 

[sanmusa]

I have always loved Porsches and air cooled VWs. I owned a ratty 912 back in high school, would like to own a real 911 someday, would like an n/a 911 from 78 to 98. We are moving out of Alaska later this year and I am seriously considering buying one when we get to warmer climates: 911 prices are seriously low right now.

Driving a rear wheel drive, turbo Porsche has always been a handful, from the time they were made in the late 70s until today. NA 911s are tamer. It really takes an excellent driver to drive a turbo 911 at 10/10ths, and that is beyond my driving skills. I read once that almost 50% of 911 Porsche made from 1976-1980 have been crashed once or twice. When the 911 Turbo came out even professional drivers said it was a scary car.

Poor engineering? I don't think so, I say it's more of a challenge. There are a few who can do it well, an yes, that does include the RUF driver on the video I posted.

Here are other videos of 911 (and 911 derived) turbos being driven at their limits by guys who know how to do it:

Porsche 935 (a monster in its own right) at the Nordschleife (pardon the music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj4-clpN8N4

911 GT2 on the Nordschleif too, 7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxmOvwRZlI&feature=related

Walter Röhrl on a 911 GT3, wet Nordschleife, taking it easy but still a lot of steering work (stock car)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg&feature=related

Walter on a Carrera 3.0 RS racing car, dry Ring. I love this engine sound (non Turbo 911)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzx3zxW-5So&feature=related

for comparison here's the Viper ACR record run at the Ring with Tom Coronel, at times he too struggles with the wheel dancing all over the place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2mFEC2H0cY

Equally impressive Tommi Mäkinen on the '11 WRX STi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To_5XjIaMk&feature=relmfu

 

[AlexGTV]

I used to own a car with the engine behind the driver.

An MR or RR? Oceans of difference.

 

[Azuremen]

I used to own a car with the engine behind the driver.

Which was? And did you ever drive it hard? I've never driven an MR or RR car that at the limit is anything but a bit twitchy, just a result of where the mass of the car rests and how that works with inertia.

 

[Keef]

My take - what a horrible car. You know you've failed miserably at making a car when the driver has to do THAT to keep it on the road. Ridiculous. How that could be considered a finished product and not a botched attempt is beyond me. Terrible engineering. If I had responsibility for any part of the design of that car, the video would make me hang my head in shame.

The glorious engineering feat that is the 911 is just that, a glorious engineering feat. By all accounts, putting the engine in the back is a horrible idea. It shouldn't work. Basic physics principles state that this machine will spin into a tree and explode into a ball of fire the first time you lift off the throttle.

But it doesn't. In fact, 911s are some of the most dominant sports cars in history. Modern technology aside, to make the older, untamed cars go quickly in the direction you want them to go takes a delicate blend of skills and balls. Three balls to be exact. If you don't have three balls, don't bother.



Do you realize how fast he's going through Eau Rouge? Opposite lock at 120 mph. The man is insane, but the car is doing it, and quickly. It's a beautiful thing to watch a vintage 911 drift every so gently all the way around a corner.



911s are cars for men. Fact. I'd be terrified to drive one on a track at speed, but I would still try.

 

[Danoff]

I have always loved Porsches and air cooled VWs. I owned a ratty 912 back in high school, would like to own a real 911 someday, would like an n/a 911 from 78 to 98. We are moving out of Alaska later this year and I am seriously considering buying one when we get to warmer climates: 911 prices are seriously low right now.

Driving a rear wheel drive, turbo Porsche has always been a handful, from the time they were made in the late 70s until today. NA 911s are tamer. It really takes an excellent driver to drive a turbo 911 at 10/10ths, and that is beyond my driving skills. I read once that almost 50% of 911 Porsche made from 1976-1980 have been crashed once or twice. When the 911 Turbo came out even professional drivers said it was a scary car.

Poor engineering? I don't think so, I say it's more of a challenge. There are a few who can do it well, an yes, that does include the RUF driver on the video I posted.

Here are other videos of 911 (and 911 derived) turbos being driven at their limits by guys who know how to do it:

Porsche 935 (a monster in its own right) at the Nordschleife (pardon the music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj4-clpN8N4

911 GT2 on the Nordschleif too, 7:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxmOvwRZlI&feature=related

Walter Röhrl on a 911 GT3, wet Nordschleife, taking it easy but still a lot of steering work (stock car)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93ag4Rp-Gg&feature=related

Walter on a Carrera 3.0 RS racing car, dry Ring. I love this engine sound (non Turbo 911)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzx3zxW-5So&feature=related

for comparison here's the Viper ACR record run at the Ring with Tom Coronel, at times he too struggles with the wheel dancing all over the place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2mFEC2H0cY

Equally impressive Tommi Mäkinen on the '11 WRX STi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2To_5XjIaMk&feature=relmfu

An MR or RR? Oceans of difference.

Which was? And did you ever drive it hard? I've never driven an MR or RR car that at the limit is anything but a bit twitchy, just a result of where the mass of the car rests and how that works with inertia.

The glorious engineering feat that is the 911 is just that, a glorious engineering feat. By all accounts, putting the engine in the back is a horrible idea. It shouldn't work. Basic physics principles state that this machine will spin into a tree and explode into a ball of fire the first time you lift off the throttle.

But it doesn't. In fact, 911s are some of the most dominant sports cars in history. Modern technology aside, to make the older, untamed cars go quickly in the direction you want them to go takes a delicate blend of skills and balls. Three balls to be exact. If you don't have three balls, don't bother.

Do you realize how fast he's going through Eau Rouge? Opposite lock at 120 mph. The man is insane, but the car is doing it, and quickly. It's a beautiful thing to watch a vintage 911 drift every so gently all the way around a corner.

911s are cars for men. Fact. I'd be terrified to drive one on a track at speed, but I would still try.

Well, for clarification, I was commenting on the Ruf. But the bottom line is this - the car shouldn't need heroic feats to be driven fast. I understand that many of you view this as a challenge and that your manhood dictates that you must conquer or tame the untamable beast, but don't confuse a challenge with a well designed car.

A car should be a precision instrument that intuitively goes where you dictate, at best without you even realizing you dictated it. You should think it and it does it unquestioningly, smoothly, easily - even near the limit. In the OP video, the sawing at the wheel means that's not happening.

Anyone can slap a V8 in a VW beetle and call it a day - it's lazy. The result will be a monster and a pain in the ass. The real challenge is to design something with power that can be wielded efficiently. It's the difference between a real car, and Frankenstein.

I'm not doubting that porsche can make a great car, no am I doubting that these drivers are amazingly skilled and have no sense of self preservation. What I'm saying is that the gyrations those guys are going through to keep the car on the road are a symptom of a larger illness.

 

[Azuremen]

The issue is, it is a trade off for the superior braking gained from having more weight on the rear wheels, and the more aggressive turn in. Honestly, tuning the tendency for MR and RR cars to be twitchy is more or less impossible with out making them understeer monsters, and that is even more awkward when the front slips while the back end wants to do its thing. Basically, you solve these problems by putting the engine in the front so the moment of inertia is further forward in the car, making understeer more likely.

In my mind, it is just a trade off - better braking and slightly better at putting power down coming out of a corner in exchange for some stability. Honestly, all that twitching off the wheel becomes 2nd nature, as it is just how those layouts work. MR and RR cars require a bit more work to drive, but I feel they have a higher performance potential than FR cars, which tend to be a bit more driver friendly.

 

[Eric.]

A friend of mine has a '76 2.7 911 for an autocross car. I've had the pleasure experience of riding in it. On slicks. So much traction....

And he just bought a '91 Turbo since the '76 hasn't even had street tires on it in three years and he wanted something to tear down the roads with.


Edit: And yeah, seconding all of what Azuremen is saying. My MR2 has some surprising stopping power, on no-name all seasons, even.

 

[sanmusa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVgzKwCb48M

911s are also surprisingly good snow rally cars, mainly because they are easy to drift and have loads of traction right over the driving wheels.

Funny thing is, among Ferdinand Porsche's reasons for putting the engine over the rear of the acr included better traction on snowy and icy surfaces. Back in the 1920s when he first started formulating his design most cars had a FR layout, which is not the best for slippery surfaces. Front wheel and all wheel drive at the time were too technologically complex and uneconomical. Dr Porsche proposed to put the engine over the rear axle to provide extra traction, and it worked great. Back then his cars had 20-some hp, so oversteer under power wasn't much of an issue.

 

[Stotty]

Watched the video in the OP.

My take - what a horrible car. You know you've failed miserably at making a car when the driver has to do THAT to keep it on the road. Ridiculous. How that could be considered a finished product and not a botched attempt is beyond me. Terrible engineering. If I had responsibility for any part of the design of that car, the video would make me hang my head in shame.

The Yellowbird in the original video (Fazination) was specifically set up to handle like that so Stefan could drift it for the camera. The suspension on CTR's is fully adjustable and the car can be set up pretty much to handle like you want it to within the confines of the RR drivetrain configuration.


Fabulous passenger lap video Motortrend... not seen that one before... it made me giggle watching it 👍

I've seen the Video Keef posted before, and it is one of the most impressive pieces of driving I've ver seen.... there's a bit towards the end where he overtakes another car, at massive speed, round the outside of Blanchemont, sideways... just incredible skill and understanding of the balance of the car 👍

And to the doubters... I'd have to check the facts, but I feel reasonably confident that the 911 is one of, if not the, most sucessful car in motorsports... so the RR layout can't be that bad

 

[Keef]

I agree with Cody - this behavior is just the nature of the beast. The driver still has total control of the car, and the car is still doing what the driver it telling it to do, the thing is that what the driver it telling it to do is not what you would normally expect a driver to tell a car to do.

 

[Danoff]

The Yellowbird in the original video (Fazination) was specifically set up to handle like that so Stefan could drift it for the camera.

If it's just a stunt, that's fine. If that's how the car is sold, not so fine.

And to the doubters... I'd have to check the facts, but I feel reasonably confident that the 911 is one of, if not the, most sucessful car in motorsports... so the RR layout can't be that bad

...naturally they're not winning anything with a car designed to slide for a camera. Again, if that's someone's idea of a finished product, I find it utterly lacking.

 

[Azuremen]

...naturally they're not winning anything with a car designed to slide for a camera. Again, if that's someone's idea of a finished product, I find it utterly lacking.

So everything should handle like a GT-R? Far to engineer sounding to me.