This, this right here, is why you "Take it to the track"

  • Thread starter hawkeye122
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He turned in, and the car began to slip. Both of us probably thought that it would correct itself. And then, the back came really wide and it was apparent that he no longer was in control of the slide. We were going to spin or go off to the right of the road, into the pole. He turned the wheel hard left to try and correct, and it just shot to the left.
 
^ It can happen, maybe a bump on the road lifted one of the rear tires ?
I've driven Rexes before, years ago, a 1997 one, in the rain it does slides out when provoked.

If I were the driver of that STI, I would have hold throttle, shift lock to 2nd gear, and steer into the corner - instead of countersteer, in a desperate effort to regain rear traction, then brake smoothly while changing to 1st gear immediately to stop the car.
 
hawkeye122
He turned in, and the car began to slip. Both of us probably thought that it would correct itself. And then, the back came really wide and it was apparent that he no longer was in control of the slide. We were going to spin or go off to the right of the road, into the pole. He turned the wheel hard left to try and correct, and it just shot to the left.
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Ah ok, I guess he would need track experience to have the skill to save it.
Too bad, 2005's are one of my favourite WRX's.
 
He tried to hold it, and straighten out a bit, but it was already gone.

The irony is he was going to take defensive driving lessons at the track this upcoming Friday.
 
Azuremen
Licenses in Washington, along with some other states, prevent those under 18 from carrying passengers under 25 (excluding immediate family) for this very reason.
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In the UK, 17 year olds can't even get a quote for insuring something like a Subaru. A 1.1 car can cost around £3-4k a year, so young people over here have no choice but to have a low powered car.

Thus, it does not stop young people just driving around with no insurance in a high powered car. :indiff:

hawkeye122
He turned in, and the car began to slip. Both of us probably thought that it would correct itself. And then, the back came really wide and it was apparent that he no longer was in control of the slide. We were going to spin or go off to the right of the road, into the pole. He turned the wheel hard left to try and correct, and it just shot to the left.
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Did the car roll as a result of shooting to the left? If so, surely the anti-roll bars would prevent the roll from being so severe?

Another lesson I think that has been learned here is; always wear a seatbelt. I cannot stress how much I hate seeing people with no seatbelts on. You guys were so lucky and walked away with just scrapes and bruises because you wore seatbelts. You might be young and foolish, but you're not that foolish.
 
The car rolled because of the decline. The car hit nose first, and then began to roll. If it had been flat, we wouldnt have rolled. But the hill...
 
Bopop4
I meant that something like an MR oversteering would be bad because of its design, but isin't a WRX is supposed to drive that way?
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Honestly, I find MR cars more comfortable to let slide out than AWD cars because it is more predictable. The AWD in WRX's I've drivenn tends to muddle the steering feel a touch, and you need to dial react a bit in advance because those front wheels do pull the car. With MR cars, the steering work is fairly predictable, though the throttle work is quite delicate in comparison.

hawkeye122
He tried to hold it, and straighten out a bit, but it was already gone.
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Yeah, saving AWD in that situation is not easy and requires quite a bit of experience I'd say. Of course at those speeds, anything is generally a bit tricky.
 
Azuremen
Honestly, I find MR cars more comfortable to let slide out than AWD cars because it is more predictable. The AWD in WRX's I've drivenn tends to muddle the steering feel a touch, and you need to dial react a bit in advance because those front wheels do pull the car. With MR cars, the steering work is fairly predictable, though the throttle work is quite delicate in comparison.



Yeah, saving AWD in that situation is not easy and requires quite a bit of experience I'd say. Of course at those speeds, anything is generally a bit tricky.
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I surmised that if we had been in a FR car (Like the Mustang our other friend owns) we would have recovered it.

He had the diff setting on "Auto", so I'm not sure if that would have helped or not.
 
hawkeye122
I surmised that if we had been in a FR car (Like the Mustang our other friend owns) we would have recovered it.

He had the diff setting on "Auto", so I'm not sure if that would have helped or not.
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If he had hold the throttle and not counter steering suddenly, it might have helped to regain traction, just maybe .. a wild guess, I don't know the speed when this oversteer occurred or did he depress the clutch or applied any brakes or not doing any except counter steer...
 
80mph on what looks like a not so very wide road, you need some serious skills recovering from a slide.

But as said before. Kudoos for the seat belts.
 
Im not certain. I saw the turbo spool gauge drop a bit, so i'd assume that he let up on the throttle. But he certainly didnt hit the brakes. He tried really hard not to countersteer, and only did so when the car was beyond saving. Initially, he let up and gave it a bit less right steering.

I'd also assume that if the car had been stock, and not More powerful (Easily 450hp), we wouldnt have had the oversteer in the first place.
 
hawkeye122
Im not certain. I saw the turbo spool gauge drop a bit, so i'd assume that he let up on the throttle. But he certainly didnt hit the brakes. He tried really hard not to countersteer, and only did so when the car was beyond saving. Initially, he let up and gave it a bit less right steering.

I'd also assume that if the car had been stock, and not More powerful (Easily 450hp), we wouldnt have had the oversteer in the first place.
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Did he pumped the clutch ? I am not an expert on this such close calls, but I saw some old Hot Version videos of stock WRX in the snowy road sliding with the driver pumping the clutch and play with the throttle before gently counter steer.
 
kikie
Good to hear you and your friends are ok! That's the most important thing.

But, this can happen on track as well. I have seen it happen on open track days and on the Nordschleiffe. You would be surprised how many ego trippers try to push their cars to the limit when driving on a race track and crash. Some of them are less fortunate and die.
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First off, the 'Ring is a terrible example; almost anyone can go on it & because it actually is a race track, people know they're more than free to push their limits. The double-edged side of the sword is that it's one of the most dangerous tracks in the world for that very reason.

Secondly, we both know he said "Take it to the track" for one important reason; safety. If you mess up, someone will be there to help you & you will more than likely have kept only yourself at risk. Most track days are also incredibly strict on regulations.

I know my local track (MSR) is very happy that they have never had 2 cars collide during a track day in all of their years open & that's because the car regulations are strict & you have to take beginner classes that help instructors let you know where your car's limits are at. The worst wrecks have been someone going off.

hawkeye122
The actual speed limit was 35. But ALL of us have done it faster than that, and this has never happened.

Thanks guys. The thou
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So, not only was it above the speed limit, but double it as well. I think that pretty much explains why teenagers always crash STis/Evos; they let a very good AWD system give them too much confidence in the car's ability without gradually learning its limits.
 
If only he had a G25/G27 instead of a DFGT, he could have saved that slide.
 
I'm pretty tempted to write a "Thank You" letter to Subaru....

As the car was being taken away, my mate had the license plate in his hand.
"You idiot! Haven't you seen the commercial? You're supposed to grab the shift knob, not the License plate!"
 
hawkeye122
He turned in, and the car began to slip. Both of us probably thought that it would correct itself. And then, the back came really wide and it was apparent that he no longer was in control of the slide. We were going to spin or go off to the right of the road, into the pole. He turned the wheel hard left to try and correct, and it just shot to the left.
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So many crashes I've ever seen in the local paper happen just like that (normally it's an SUV though). I think over correction should be covered better in learning how to drive.


hawkeye122
The actual speed limit was 35. But ALL of us have done it faster than that, and this has never happened.

Thanks guys. The thoughts are appreciated.

I was very amazed that we all walked away with zero injuries. I'll definitely buy a Subaru now. Not one that hot thought....
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35 MPH corner at 80MPH, that is not going to be good.
 
Katiegan
IDid the car roll as a result of shooting to the left? If so, surely the anti-roll bars would prevent the roll from being so severe?
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An anti-roll bar prevents body roll while turning in the sense that it tries to keep it as flat as possible by turning body roll motion into a torsional motion in a bar. His car rolling on its roof a couple of times is beyond what an anti-roll bar is for.

hawkeye122
Im not certain. I saw the turbo spool gauge drop a bit, so i'd assume that he let up on the throttle. But he certainly didnt hit the brakes. He tried really hard not to countersteer, and only did so when the car was beyond saving. Initially, he let up and gave it a bit less right steering.

I'd also assume that if the car had been stock, and not More powerful (Easily 450hp), we wouldnt have had the oversteer in the first place.
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It's hard to say for sure, since so many factors could have contributed to the slide, but I'm going to venture a guess that it was lift off oversteer. When your friend turned hard left, the car had slid enough that the tires regained traction, thus shooting the car to the left. I don't think the fact that the car was modified changed anything. At that speed (which a stock STi is easily capable of reaching), that turn required more grip than was available from the tires. Even if the car was stock, the same tires would have given away, in that same situation, just the same. I know that you weren't driving, so this isn't your fault, but that was just an incredibly irresponsible speed, and the driver exceeded the car's capabilities.

As Azuremen said, at those speeds, saving anything is tricky, and AWD systems tend to be even trickier. I doubt that your friend could have saved it even if the car was just rear or front wheel drive, unless he's very very experienced and talented.
 
Crash
As Azuremen said, at those speeds, saving anything is tricky, and AWD systems tend to be even trickier. I doubt that your friend could have saved it even if the car was just rear or front wheel drive, unless he's very very experienced and talented.
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Then he wouldn't have tried it in the first place.
 
IMG_2906_zpscecc6c11.jpg


A final photo. Take care when driving.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7687631#post7687631

Yeah, there SHOULD have been a question.
 
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hawkeye122
I'm pretty tempted to write a "Thank You" letter to Subaru....

As the car was being taken away, my mate had the license plate in his hand.
"You idiot! Haven't you seen the commercial? You're supposed to grab the shift knob, not the License plate!"
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Thak you for making your dangerously quick car so sturdy? :lol:

I've just seen way too many Subie accidents. STIs are just the wrong side of "safe", which means people are inclined to push them more.

Good thing you're all all right. Except for the car of course. My cousin here just came out of the ICU. They had him under observation because he clipped an apex in his van at twice the legal limit (both speed and alcohol) and slammed straight into a truck parked right on the curb.
 
The only good thing to come out of this ..... you survived and are able to talk about it.

Consider yourself lucky. I have seen other crashes where the victim outcome was less fortunate, and the vehicle carnage was considerably less than this.

Glad to hear of your survival. 👍
 
Good to hear everything turned out okay and maybe your friend's confidence took a good knock. If you were in a certain Toyota car, things could have turned out way worse with all the speed and what not.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
If you were in a certain Toyota car, things could have turned out way worse with all the speed and what not.
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EL-OH-EL. I don't think you were set up for that joke.
 
Yes he was, I own said Toyota. And it's the manual.

I do wonder how much of it is salvageable. Obviously its been written off, but what could still work?
 
Don't worry Roaddog, I'm sure hawkeye's friend wouldn't know how to make the Camry out-accel other cars so fast.

Remember?
"my car is a toyota camry 2001 LE with a 2.2L engine and it can out accel any car because I know how to."
 
Dennisch
80mph on what looks like a not so very wide road, you need some serious skills recovering from a slide.

But as said before. Kudoos for the seat belts.
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Yep, you need to be Martin Higgins to do that:


:eek:

First off: glad everyone is ok. I've seen people in far less severe accidents come off worse.

Secondly: I know lots of people my age who drive too fast for the road and conditions, my friend is one of them. Too many people seem to think that passing their driving test means they are suddenly a racing driver.
 
A few thoughts on this...

Who in their right mind lets a 17 y/o loose in a modified Impreza?

Traction =/= lateral grip... 4WD cars have loads of traction, but only a similar level of lateral grip as a 2WD car with similar weight/tyre size. The great traction makes the driver think the car has more grip than it really does... which is fine until momentum takes over in the form of lift-off oversteer, as seems most likely in this case.

I owned an Impreza for 4 years back in the late 90's and I'd rate it as the safest car I've ever driven. I'd almost go so far as to say it was un-crashable as long you have a decent understanding of car control (something a 17 y/o is unlikely to have).

Impreza’s should be driven pretty much like a front wheel drive car. They will naturally understeer, so you drive them by turning in, lifting off (or braking/left foot braking), let the weight transfer forward and the back start to swing, then back on the gas to control the angle – getting back on the gas transfers the weight back and helps the rear regain grip. More often than not you wouldn’t need to apply any opposite lock - keeping the steering wheel pointing straight ahead and applying throttle will pull the car straight.

IME, you can recover Impreza’s from massive angles as long as you always keep you foot in…. but you need to be consciously aware of this and have the ability and sensitivity to react to lift off oversteer when it happens unexpectedly.

Glad everyone got out of it unharmed 👍
 

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