Three and Four Wheel Drift
- Thread starter GhostZ
- 130 comments
- 8,597 views
- 1,125
- Hannover
- KING__OF__SKULLS
I saw him yesterday in one of the lobbies from Alpine and i must say his drifting was far from being perfect. 👎
He drove a Amuse NISMO 380RS Super Leggera on the Autumn Ring (reverse). One comment on this was he "...upgraded cars..."?!?
From all his threads and explanation he don't have to, since he a have the perfect formula to tune cars WITHOUT having it testing on the track. I must say the car was very stiff with nearly none amount of body roll, but he didn't approve his writings through his technique.
I was very disappointed what i saw. I thought a guy, who wants to teach the community the perfect way to drift (*insert sarcasm*) aprove it on the track.....
I think he lost a lot of respect, (if he ever had any) for me.
Hope he will respond and clear things up.
He drove a Amuse NISMO 380RS Super Leggera on the Autumn Ring (reverse). One comment on this was he "...upgraded cars..."?!?
From all his threads and explanation he don't have to, since he a have the perfect formula to tune cars WITHOUT having it testing on the track. I must say the car was very stiff with nearly none amount of body roll, but he didn't approve his writings through his technique.
I was very disappointed what i saw. I thought a guy, who wants to teach the community the perfect way to drift (*insert sarcasm*) aprove it on the track.....
I think he lost a lot of respect, (if he ever had any) for me.
Hope he will respond and clear things up.
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- 1,109
- Trinidad
- MLD_DriftMonkey
Basically, it's about this guy that thinks he found a better way of drifting, but all he does is ruin the grip on the front tires claiming it's faster, and cooler. (Btw: It's not, not really.) Thread solved.
P.S.: Yes Micho, it's really annoying.
Spot on
LOL I was wondering why no one has seen him online as yet. I guess now we know why.
- 6,985
- United States
GonalesBasically, it's about this guy that thinks he found a better way of drifting, but all he does is ruin the grip on the front tires claiming it's faster, and cooler. (Btw: It's not, not really.) Thread solved.
P.S.: Yes Micho, it's really annoying.
By the way. Now that I have a G27 my LSD tuning has changed drastically. I can still run 5/5/5 but it is slow coming back up from a clutch kick. So now i have been running 5/60/60 or 60/60/60 or braking half way up or something similar. Feels really responsive.
- 2,151
- Germany
- x_XNyordiaX_x
By the way. Now that I have a G27 my LSD tuning has changed drastically. I can still run 5/5/5 but it is slow coming back up from a clutch kick. So now i have been running 5/60/60 or 60/60/60 or braking half way up or something similar. Feels really responsive.
Welcome to the Light, my dear sir
👍
- 133
- MI
I was doing the section in High Speed Ring today, and while using my TVR V8S I just happened to look over at my tire indicators: three red, one white. Only thing was, it was my outside tire that was white, not the inside one. Maybe my settings are exactly opposite to GhostZ's but there you go. If anyone (Ghost included) could explain what's going on I'd be more than happy to listen.
Speedometer reads about 40~ish mph on the left hander going into the tunnel, max angle I can achieve on CH's, 406hp TVR V8S. I'll even post my settings if you want them.
Speedometer reads about 40~ish mph on the left hander going into the tunnel, max angle I can achieve on CH's, 406hp TVR V8S. I'll even post my settings if you want them.
- 1,093
- GTP_Pergatory
TL;DR: OP figured out the above is not as true as he thought it was. Traction is not the end-all, beat-all; acceleration is. Acceleration through the corner can happen with high or low traction. Increasing slip angle decreases traction but can improve the acceleration vector to produce similar (sometimes even superior) results.
I don't see why you guys need to beat each other up about this. No one came into drifting knowing every little detail. He made a discovery and got excited about it, cut him some slack.
To GhostZ, I'd recommend being more concise next time and trying not to sound like you're claiming you've discovered some amazing new technique that defeats all others. You still haven't got it exactly right, as demonstrated by this statement in your conclusion:
This is an extreme over-simplification, not to mention being generally untrue. There are different goals in drifting. If speed is your goal, there is an ideal angle, and it's not very high. Adding angle beyond it will only slow you down no matter how good your technique is.
- 285
- Oxfordshire
- Bread_45
Hi All,
Like a few others in this thread, I've experienced the "3 red tyres" situation. Mine have always been the 2 rear tyres, and front outside.
AC, that's interesting about the front inside getting hotter than the outside. Can I ask how long this lasted for? I think I have had something similar happen for a second or two during a chicane (for example let's say it was a right hand bend followed by a left). I came in too fast, dumped the brakes and locked the front left (outside) wheel while turning into the right hander. I slid a fair bit and the FL wheel really lit up. When I turned into the left hand bend which followed, and started to drift, the FL (now the inside) tyre lit up before the FR, as the FL was already much hotter to begin with.
I was wondering if the same had happened to you, since the left hander before the tunnel on High Speed Ring has a right hander just before it.
Lock2Lock, way back in post #8 you mentioned the 3 wheel drift happening to you on Grand Valley Speedway. This is where it first happened to me. I was driving an S13 silvia (grip), and attempting to test max cornering speed through the last tunnel. I was gradually adding more throttle until the rear slowly moved out and both rears went red (basically a really slow power-over drift) fronts were still white. I backed off the throttle just a touch and kept it steady and the front outside went red too. I didn't alter the steering much if any from that which I was using for the "grip" line I'd initially wanted, so from a drift point of view it was basically zero countersteer. After that I tried doing it deliberately a few times, as others have noted it feels really nice and balanced if you can get and hold the correct throttle position. Sometimes I have to flutter the throttle on-off around the desired position if I can't manage to find it exactly.
GhostZ, I've read the OP where you mention transitioning to all 4 red wheels, on corner exit after holding the 3-wheeler mid corner.
"On corner exit, the front inside tire loses grip and it becomes a 4 wheel drift. This is happening because as the steering wheel unwinds an throttle is increased, more weight transfer to the rear pulls the weight off of the inside front tire and puts it on the back. That inside front tire that has been dictating the car's motion suddenly has its limits lowered, and thus begins to slip."
I've not been able to replicate this in the GVS tunnel. If I gently add more throttle then my rear tyres get redder and my front outside becomes white again, at which point I'll generally oversteer as the rears are giving far less grip than the fronts. Obviously it could be a difference in my steering, car setup etc. As others have mentioned it'd be really helpful if you could post a vid - "picture paints a thousand words" and all that.
If anyone is interested I think I have a replay of me messing about on GVS. Other than running the replay and camera-phoning the TV, is there any way to export from GT5 direct into a decent file format for uploading?
Lastly, I found this random vid of someone drifting on Youtube, and it seems to illustrate what people are talking about. Plus it has music for any Initial D fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE-TSadb1BM
Apologies for length of post, happy New Year to all!
Cheers,
Bread
Like a few others in this thread, I've experienced the "3 red tyres" situation. Mine have always been the 2 rear tyres, and front outside.
AC, that's interesting about the front inside getting hotter than the outside. Can I ask how long this lasted for? I think I have had something similar happen for a second or two during a chicane (for example let's say it was a right hand bend followed by a left). I came in too fast, dumped the brakes and locked the front left (outside) wheel while turning into the right hander. I slid a fair bit and the FL wheel really lit up. When I turned into the left hand bend which followed, and started to drift, the FL (now the inside) tyre lit up before the FR, as the FL was already much hotter to begin with.
I was wondering if the same had happened to you, since the left hander before the tunnel on High Speed Ring has a right hander just before it.
Lock2Lock, way back in post #8 you mentioned the 3 wheel drift happening to you on Grand Valley Speedway. This is where it first happened to me. I was driving an S13 silvia (grip), and attempting to test max cornering speed through the last tunnel. I was gradually adding more throttle until the rear slowly moved out and both rears went red (basically a really slow power-over drift) fronts were still white. I backed off the throttle just a touch and kept it steady and the front outside went red too. I didn't alter the steering much if any from that which I was using for the "grip" line I'd initially wanted, so from a drift point of view it was basically zero countersteer. After that I tried doing it deliberately a few times, as others have noted it feels really nice and balanced if you can get and hold the correct throttle position. Sometimes I have to flutter the throttle on-off around the desired position if I can't manage to find it exactly.
GhostZ, I've read the OP where you mention transitioning to all 4 red wheels, on corner exit after holding the 3-wheeler mid corner.
"On corner exit, the front inside tire loses grip and it becomes a 4 wheel drift. This is happening because as the steering wheel unwinds an throttle is increased, more weight transfer to the rear pulls the weight off of the inside front tire and puts it on the back. That inside front tire that has been dictating the car's motion suddenly has its limits lowered, and thus begins to slip."
I've not been able to replicate this in the GVS tunnel. If I gently add more throttle then my rear tyres get redder and my front outside becomes white again, at which point I'll generally oversteer as the rears are giving far less grip than the fronts. Obviously it could be a difference in my steering, car setup etc. As others have mentioned it'd be really helpful if you could post a vid - "picture paints a thousand words" and all that.
If anyone is interested I think I have a replay of me messing about on GVS. Other than running the replay and camera-phoning the TV, is there any way to export from GT5 direct into a decent file format for uploading?
Lastly, I found this random vid of someone drifting on Youtube, and it seems to illustrate what people are talking about. Plus it has music for any Initial D fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE-TSadb1BM
Apologies for length of post, happy New Year to all!
Cheers,
Bread
- 1,109
- Trinidad
- MLD_DriftMonkey
takes at least 15 minutes to write any of his posts and still no video... takes like 5 minutes.
- 6,985
- United States
Drift_Monkey
Yeah i use my phone to record min and you can see.
All he has to do is get a table and something to prop the phone up.
I used my friend's crapbox's (oh sorry i meant xbox) CD drive casing to hold my phone up.
Just do that GhostZ it doesn't have to be full HD. I mean we can further elaborate on your findings if you create a video.
@bread
No problem about the long post.
And yeah understand what you mean.
- 3,039
- Krautland
- LukeCannotSkate
This is what makes me wondering why he does it... or for what.
- 133
- MI
@Bread82
Well it wasn't happening because of the transition or coming in too fast (usually impossible in my case T_T). I was already halfway through the drift, super smooth too. I might use a DS3 controller, but when I drift I only just barely move the stick back and forth a tiny bit, especially during a nice long curve like the ones on High Speed Ring.
Also, during my latest drifts I've been looking more and more at the tire indicators. I've been noticing that when I drift a corner and put the car into a drift where I don't have to move the wheel at all and just control using the throttle (no counter steer, all wheels lined up), all four wheels light up red almost immediately and stay that way until I either counter steer or the drift ends.
Edit: I'm sorry Lock2Lock, I didn't see your post until now asking which tire was red. My bad man. I was doing the left hander into the tunnel, and my front left tire was red while my front right tire was white. Could have something to do with my setup or the way I drift. Hope that helps.
Well it wasn't happening because of the transition or coming in too fast (usually impossible in my case T_T). I was already halfway through the drift, super smooth too. I might use a DS3 controller, but when I drift I only just barely move the stick back and forth a tiny bit, especially during a nice long curve like the ones on High Speed Ring.
Also, during my latest drifts I've been looking more and more at the tire indicators. I've been noticing that when I drift a corner and put the car into a drift where I don't have to move the wheel at all and just control using the throttle (no counter steer, all wheels lined up), all four wheels light up red almost immediately and stay that way until I either counter steer or the drift ends.
Edit: I'm sorry Lock2Lock, I didn't see your post until now asking which tire was red. My bad man. I was doing the left hander into the tunnel, and my front left tire was red while my front right tire was white. Could have something to do with my setup or the way I drift. Hope that helps.
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- 133
- MI
I did it again just now in a different car. BMW Z4 M. Same turn on High Speed Ring (the left hander into the tunnel). I transition into a four wheel drift with no counter steer and allow the car to go all the way to max angle. When I start to give it a tiny bit of counter steer to keep it steady is when the outside wheel turns white. It's weird to see it happen like that. Maybe it's the perfect place for this since it's a nice easy curve where you can keep the throttle pegged.
Edit: wow I never noticed before how often this was happening in my TVR. With the V8S I was doing it almost every run on HSR.
Double Edit: Now that I have started to notice this, I can't stop looking at my tire indicators. I see it everywhere... T_T
Also @Gonales: I've started using the outside view, so that the next time I tandem someone I will be able to see them. I hope I didn't scare you away with my poor tandem skills...
Edit: wow I never noticed before how often this was happening in my TVR. With the V8S I was doing it almost every run on HSR.
Double Edit: Now that I have started to notice this, I can't stop looking at my tire indicators. I see it everywhere... T_T
Also @Gonales: I've started using the outside view, so that the next time I tandem someone I will be able to see them. I hope I didn't scare you away with my poor tandem skills...
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- 2,151
- Germany
- x_XNyordiaX_x
I've written this before, and although badly worded, was correct IF those videos show what GhostZ was talking about.
In other words:
You're going into a corner sliding, but instead of counter steering you only feather the throttle to keep sliding. This is possible, however:
Wikipedia states, (as does logic):
"Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, causing loss of traction in the rear wheels, while maintaining control from entry to exit of a corner. A car is drifting when the rear slip angle is greater than the front slip angle, to such an extent that often the front wheels are pointing in the opposite direction to the turn (e.g. car is turning left, wheels are pointed right or vice versa)."
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,723
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Wikipedia isn't exactly a reputable source...
- 2,151
- Germany
- x_XNyordiaX_x
It's about the point -.- I don't care about the source, every drifter will tell you the same.
- 1,109
- Trinidad
- MLD_DriftMonkey
if it isn't then nowhere is a reputable source. Wikipedia has a process on how they validate their facts, the same way anyone has to validate their facts when doing research. But let's not get sidetracked.
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,723
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Never rely on a secondary source. Always find the primary documentation.
