Time Trial Ideas

[Appie]

But I thought this was going to be US vs. EU?

oops sorry

 

[AngelCreator]

oops sorry

It's ok. Well here is what I have so far.
And I got a new PS2(thanks dad) so can do testing again.

Here are the rules for the cars so far.
Minimum weight of 1000KG
No wings or weight reduction allowed
Fully mods allowed except for no engine tuning(turbo or NA).
Use supercars(not set yet)

Here are the tracks I would like to use.
Circuit de la Sarthe 1-4 Laps
Seattle Circuit-13 Laps
Infineon SP-testing
Deep Forest-testing
Apricot Hill-testing
Cote d'Azur-testing

And these are the cars that I have found that I think are SuperCars.
Ford GT '05
Cadilac CIEN '02
Saleen S7 '02
Volkswagen W12 Nardo Concept '01
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren '03
Pagani Zonda C12S 7.3 '02
Cizeta V16T '94
Jaguar XJ220 '92
TVR Cerbera Speed 12 '00

And here are some cars that could be used as SuperCars(I think).
Dodge Viper GTSR Concept '00
Buick Special '02
Callaway C12 '03
HPA Moyorsports Stage 2 R32 '04
RUF CTR2 '96
Spyker C8 Laviolette '02
Lotus Esprit Sport 350 '00
Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG (R230) '04
Audi LeMans Quattro '03

I would like to know what you think of the rules,tracks and cars and if you
have any ideas on what could be better or if you like it.

 

[ferrari_chris]

... And here are some cars that could be used as SuperCars(I think).
Dodge Viper GTSR Concept '00
Buick Special '02
Callaway C12 '03
HPA Moyorsports Stage 2 R32 '04
RUF CTR2 '96
Spyker C8 Laviolette '02
Lotus Esprit Sport 350 '00
Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG (R230) '04
Audi LeMans Quattro '03 ...

I'd say only the RUF, the Spyker and the Audi, but that's just my opinion - I don't class the others as Supercars.

Maybe the Viper, but not in concept form.

 

[AngelCreator]

I'd say only the RUF, the Spyker and the Audi, but that's just my opinion - I don't class the others as Supercars.

Maybe the Viper, but not in concept form.

Thanks for the input, are you thinking the SRT-10 Viper?
And I have more laps for tracks.

Deep Forest-14 laps
Apricot Hill-13 laps

 

[ferrari_chris]

Thanks for the input, are you thinking the SRT-10 Viper? ...

Yeah, or the older GTS.

 

[m.piedgros]

How about a 350z "Spec Series." I've been mulling over this for a while now. Similar to the IMSA GT3 Challenge, there would be two classes. Gran Turismo and Stock. The cars in the Gran Turismo or GT class would be the Nissan 350z Gran Tursimo Special Edition car and the Stock (ST) class would be the baisic Nissan 350z. The competition would be run in GT Mode to allow for realistic tuning and set-up changes.

The GT Class would have a roll cage installed, racing exhaust, level one weight reduction, racing brakes and a full racing suspension. [Edited in] A-Type Wing.

The ST class would have a roll cage installed and level one weight reducion performed.

I was thinking we'd use Apricott Hill Reverse as the venue in GT Mode, Practice.

Thoughts?

m.piedgros

EDIT: All cars may have an oil change as well.

EDIT 2: ST Cars will run with TCS on. Cars in the GT Class will run with NO driving aids what so ever. Also, GT Cars will use an A-Type wing.

EDIT 3: Why no tires? Leave the stock tires on the car, this competition will run with a similar tire rule to Speed World Challenge DOT rated (street legal) "R" compound tires. Or as Tom Hnatiw would put it, "The best there is, for open track."

 

[AngelCreator]

How about a 350z "Spec Series." I've been mulling over this for a while now. Similar to the IMSA GT3 Challenge, there would be two classes. Gran Turismo and Stock. The cars in the Gran Turismo or GT class would be the Nissan 350z Gran Tursimo Special Edition car and the Stock (ST) class would be the baisic Nissan 350z. The competition would be run in GT Mode to allow for realistic tuning and set-up changes.

The GT Class would have a roll cage installed, racing exhaust, level one weight reduction, racing brakes and a full racing suspension.

The ST class would have a roll cage installed and level one weight reducion performed.

I was thinking we'd use Apricott Hill Reverse as the venue in GT Mode, Practice.

Thoughts?

m.piedgros

EDIT: All cars may have an oil change as well.

EDIT 2: ST Cars will run with TCS on. Cars in the GT Class will run with NO driving aids what so ever. Also, GT Cars will use an A-Type wing.

EDIT 3: Why no tires? Leave the stock tires on the car, this competition will run with a similar tire rule to Speed World Challenge DOT rated (street legal) "R" compound tires. Or as Tom Hnatiw would put it, "The best there is, for open track."

Well that does sound fun:idea:, and the racing would be close.
If you need any help, I would be glad to help as I see you have a good idea
on rules and car setup.

And for my idea, the more I think about it the more I think a power to weight ratio
setup would be better because their are so many cars you could use.
What I will do is find the car with the best power to weight ratio and have that
as the number to go by. Than all cars could go only to that number.
Well what do you think? I would like some input on this as
the cars and tracks are setup, for the most part.

 

[AngelCreator]

I have found that the car with the best power to weight ratio is the TVR Speed 12 at 1.260 stock.
With that in mind, I think the limit of 1.250 would be good so the rules would look like this,

All mods allowed except NOS and Add on Wings
SuperCars Only(list would be down below)
Minimum Power to Weight ratio of 1.250

Now what rules for tires sould we have?

 

[Appie]

we can leave them on S2 tyres or change them for the S3 tyres

 

[AngelCreator]

we can leave them on S2 tyres or change them for the S3 tyres

How about any S tire, that way you can pick the tire setup you want.

 

[Appie]

cool, but when are we running this

 

[AngelCreator]

cool, but when are we running this

It will take a few days to get it ready and the setup done.
I will PM you with the setup when I'm done.

 

[Appie]

cool:tup:

 

[AngelCreator]

Ok I have a new problem, I have all the seup done except I don't know how to run the races.
What I mean is I don't know how to run races with cars that you have done mods
to and do how many lap I have asked for on the tracks I have set.
If you have any ideas it would help alot.

 

[ferrari_chris]

Ok I have a new problem, I have all the seup done except I don't know how to run the races.
What I mean is I don't know how to run races with cars that you have done mods
to and do how many lap I have asked for on the tracks I have set.
If you have any ideas it would help alot.

Can't help you much with the car problem there, but I know if you search around the GT4 forum there will be info there to solve your problem one way or the other. I've read about this topic before, just can't remember the outcome is all.

As for the laps, go to the Options screen, then Arcade or Race (can't remember which, but I think it may be race) and you can set the number of laps to race there.

Happy motoring.

 

[AngelCreator]

It seems that I can't run the idea for a championship because you can't use
cars that you put mods on in arcade mode which is sad.
But I was thinking about a new time trial. How about one just for FF cars?
I have put some thought in to this one, it would have 3 classes with rules for each class.
I would like your thoughts on this please.

 

[ferrari_chris]

My thoughts: FF suck.

Short and sweet, isn't it?

Maybe an MR or 4WD (FR is a bit predictable) series? I've never been a big fan of FF as performance cars.

 

[rsmithdrift]

What I've always wanted is TT at Apricot Hill Reverse with the Lotus Motor Sport Elise. Fully Modded on SS tires. No NOS. That car is a absolute riot at that track.

And yeah, FF sucks.

 

[AngelCreator]

It looks like no one likes my idea, so I will have to think of a new one.

 

[Appie]

It seems that I can't run the idea for a championship because you can't use
cars that you put mods on in arcade mode which is sad.
But I was thinking about a new time trial. How about one just for FF cars?
I have put some thought in to this one, it would have 3 classes with rules for each class.
I would like your thoughts on this please.

Or maybe we could run like Family cups or hotlaps👍

 

[AngelCreator]

Or maybe we could run like Family cups or hotlaps👍

Family cups or hotlaps........hmm:idea:, I know about family cups but what do you
mean by hotlaps?

 

[Appie]

like driving your fastest lap as possible and write it down

 

[AngelCreator]

The family cup sounds like a good idea:tup:, only two laps but thats ok.
Thank you appie17 for your ideas and now that I got that done
I will get to work on that championship.

 

[Appie]

The family cup sounds like a good idea:tup:, only two laps but thats ok.
Thank you appie17 for your ideas and now that I got that done
I will get to work on that championship.

and you don't really need to

and good uck with setting it up:tup:

 

[jphachi_roku]

I just had this crazy Idea for time trial with a different twist:idea:

I've been doing time trials here setting good times here and there for quite some time but when I did an endurance race earlier today, I realized my consistency isn't that good

Instead of trying to achieve the fastest laptime, we will compete on who is the most consistent driver!

We will determine the consistency not by averaging laptimes (which is not a good indicator of consistency, you can have inconsistent times and still get a high average) but rather we will use statistical Standard Deviation

Simply put, standard deviation measures how spread out the values in a data set are. More precisely, it is a measure of the average difference between the values of the data in the set. If the data points are all similar (a very fast and consistent driver), then the standard deviation will be low (closer to zero). If the data points are highly variable (erratic and inconsistent laptimes), then the standard variation is high (further from zero).

for example,

By some fluke you were able to do 10 laps each 52.000 secs (which is impossibe for a human) the Standard deviation is 0

the higher the number, the farther apart your laptimes are with each other. If you get a 19.8 Standard Deviation your laptimes are tens of seconds from each other (very erratic)


Advantages
-since we are after consistency, we don't need to set rules for cars. You can use any car that you want since consistency is the name of the game.

-we can tell with more confidence whose the better driver among the participants

-this will rid us of "lucky" laps. I mean if you get REALLY lucky you can set a really fast time but thing is, lightning rarely stikes the same place twice and that lucky lap will be drowned by the rest of your laps

-this will be a good way to increase your consistency

-it's extremely difficult for racers to drive slowly on purpose and still be consistent If ever he does so we can tell from his laps(putting into account the car and track he used) whether he is "rigging" his results.

Disadvantage
-We will need to clock a lot of laps on a circuit that we will do this time trial on but we can agree on a fixed minimum number of laps and have no limit on the maximum, its computed anyway (the standard for most statistical data to be admissible is 30 samples)

-computation will be a bit difficult, I could try making a microsoft exel file that will calculate it for you (doing this will take a while)

-updating of the leaderboard and calculation of Standard Deviation will take some time

-It will be hard to police for "cherry picking" (doing a lot of laps but picks ony the fast ones)

-It would be better if someone else will moderate this than me, school will start again in a weeks time and I'll be really busy

So guys, tell me what you think of this crazy idea of mine

I'll start playing around the exel file (heard that standard deviation is built into exel)

I'll try and prepare the exel file if this idea gets a green light
for now, I'll try playing with the exel file that will compute for the standard deviation

 

[AngelCreator]

So what your tring to say is have a set number of laps(say 6-8) and see how
consistent you can be over those laps. I did that once where I did 1:11's for
about 6 laps, and I don't remember any of them. This is sounds good because
you would'nt have to be fast just be consistent and that would let more drivers
enter and have fun. If you want to start this PM me with the track and how many
laps you want and I will be moderate for it.

 

[jphachi_roku]

Thanks for the support AngelCreator

Right now, I'm working on how to display the results so that the it will be easier to understand.

If we display the standard deviation, most people will see a number with decimal places and ask themselves, so what does that mean?

We need some kind of "read me first" portion and sample data to display for people to undestand


Basically, the lower the number, the more consistent (which contradicts the example that I gave earlier) the closer your laptimes are to each other.
if by some fluke that you were able to do 10 laps with times the same to the 0.000 seconds then the Standard deviation is 0. The higher the number, the farther apart your laptimes are from each other.

If figured out the built in function to exel (try it yourself on your own laps, it gives you the feeling that your a formula one engineer)

-first convert the laps into seconds first (for example 1'24.456 will become 84.456)

-enter the laptimes in exel. for example 10 laps will occupy the boxes A1 to A10

-at box A11 type the following: =STDEVP(A1:A10) and press enter

-box A11 will give you the standard deviation (sometimes I get a negative answer, but I checked the math and graphs it seems that the farther you are from 0 the less consistent the samples)

I'm open for suggestion on how we can improve this.
This needs some more brainstorming to become an effective tool in finding the top drivers in GTP

for now, I'll try and make my own data table to serve as an example.

 

[Kent]

This needs some more brainstorming to become an effective tool in finding the top drivers in GTP

for now, I'll try and make my own data table to serve as an example.

How about you just go to the WRS and look up team GTP for the next BC (bc6).

Those are easily the best drivers on the gtp (with a few exceptions).

Just a suggestion.
(btw, they really are the best and to take part in a BC you must be replay supported with a real replay file so there is no getting around it- those are some of the best on the gtp).

 

[jphachi_roku]

well I tried a dry run of this using the Amuse S2000 GT1 in medium slicks in the Fuji Speedway 2005

lap times in seconds
1 98.384
2 97.91
3 98.153
4 98.462
5 97.558
6 98.103
7 98.581
8 98.002
9 99.073
10 97.75
A standard Deviation of 0.419442296 my lap times were within +- 1sec from my average (most professional karters get standard deviations 0.35 and below with data taken from sprint races this means that their laptimes were within +- 500 millisecs from their average time)

average lap of 98.1976 secs

I wonder if this would even be comprehensible

 

[AngelCreator]

well I tried a dry run of this using the Amuse S2000 GT1 in medium slicks in the Fuji Speedway 2005

lap times in seconds
1 98.384
2 97.91
3 98.153
4 98.462
5 97.558
6 98.103
7 98.581
8 98.002
9 99.073
10 97.75
A standard Deviation of 0.419442296 my lap times were within +- 1sec from my average (most professional karters get standard deviations 0.35 and below with data taken from sprint races this means that their laptimes were within +- 500 millisecs from their average time)

average lap of 98.1976 secs

I wonder if this would even be comprehensible

I get what your saying, take your lap time(like you said 1:24 turns to 84sec) and find
out what your deviation is, for you it's .42s if you round it off. And if you show it off
like that where you show your lap time in seconds then show your average lap time.
I think that is the easiest way to do it(showing the lap times I mean).