Tips on Driving without TCS

[Robben]

Damn, I never thought I could have full manual options while auto was on. Oh well I turned out well enough. How does it work now? I can't always test these things right off because of my game is not in my house. If there is the best of both worlds still available it would help new drivers making the change a bunch easier.

It is true to note that some people can be extremely quick with auto, I knew a few.

No, you can't do it now.. I tried the other day.

I can't use manual because I play without sound mostly just using visual clues is near impossible

 

[Krypton78]

I can't use manual because I play without sound mostly just using visual clues is near impossible

Without any sound?

How's that?

 

[Robben]

Without any sound?

How's that?

I guess I'm used to it so it's normal for me...

Edit: I do find it much easier when on though

 

[LennyB]

I think sound is what I rely on the most while racing. Visuals, FFB, whatever else does not replace sound to me.

 

[monkeywall]

The guys here have given some good advice. i ain't experienced enough to provide anything further on driving without tcs. Apart from don't use csa when trying to learn simply jump into the deep end you'll get the hang of it. Below would be helpful in learning to deal with oversteer while trying drive without tcs.

One way to learn to maximise your ability to deal with oversteer consistently every time is to always have a central focus of the upcoming task well in advance because with driving fast on a track or a road, everything happens extremely fast for the average person, so any method to slow this perceived experience down for the driver is absolutely essential.

To properly grasp this concept, it's always best to practice with a car that is slightly unstable under braking, mid corner and on acceleration.

So for instance, if the car is a bit unstable under braking like in the wet, the central focus as you go flat out down the straight needs to be what way you are going to produce the turn-in for the car, so you ideally need to be looking a bit beyond the turn-in point with peripheral vision, but you need to also record your braking point too, to properly synchronise with this operation.

With ABS, you can afford to brake much deeper into the corners and can afford to look further into them too, typically way beyond the turn-in point this time, but again with peripheral vision. As the car enters the corner, you ideally need to begin looking beyond the apex and for the exit rumble strips, and very shortly before acceleration, looking beyond the exit rumble strips in order to try and predict what the car is going to do possibly a split second before it happens. This is very important and one reason I think many are having snap oversteer issues other than the iffy physics, is because no one has complained about the driver and lap time lists which interferes with our ability to do this reliably in races.

To get into this mode routinely can take many months at least, but it can be done.

Edit: To simplify things as much as I can, a car only ever does two things; forms a straight line or arc between two points and given that both these trajectories also form any operation (braking deceleration on entry, acceleration on exit) around a race track as well, the way to look at it is to always be looking beyond that straight line or arc before the car itself has actually done so.

Braking point to turn-in point forms a straight line
Turn-in point to apex forms an arc
Apex to exit kerb forms an arc.

This is my interpretation of it, and I'm sure many other experienced drivers have their own way of reading a track for the desired outcome.

Establishing turn-in points can be difficult in GTS because there are no clear rubber marks, so I often use the inside kerb together with the approximate braking point to get the the turn-in point, so as not to have to look for the clipping point in a panic.

Best of luck mate, I use a G29 only aid i have on is default abs I get fed up by spinning or being touched from behind and losing traction. But as a regular top10 guy who drives with the same aids i do once said 'winners never quit and quitters never win'

 

[Robben]

I think sound is what I rely on the most while racing. Visuals, FFB, whatever else does not replace sound to me.

Yeah, it's much easier to stay on half throttle. for example, when you can hear the engine.. otherwise it's sort of a "best guess" based on where you finger is on the R2 button

 

[Mirror_man]

You may also try to increase FFB Sensitivity to the max... (10 or close to that value....)

 

[banckzy]

You may also try to increase FFB Sensitivity to the max... (10 or close to that value....)

how can this help with TCS? I have mine set to 1 and people did say it is personal prefernece but now I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Robben]

how can this help with TCS? I have mine set to 1 and people did say it is personal prefernece but now I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong.

I guess the feedback helps you feel loss of traction so you can react better?

 

[banckzy]

I guess the feedback helps you feel loss of traction so you can react better?

guess that makes sense haha

 

[Robben]

guess that makes sense haha

 

[Sean Renon]

Not easy with the massively non linear pedal map. I have to drive most of my cars with tc1

I think this is an exaggeration, TCS slows your top end speed down - I recently learned how to drive without TCS or CSA (I'm a pad user) and it's easy enough.

There are only a few corners where I wish the throttle was more linear, but for the most part I manage just fine.

 

[Elison_NC]

You may also try to increase FFB Sensitivity to the max... (10 or close to that value....)

I was using FFB sensitivity on 2 and changed to 8, i felt the dynamics of the car a bit better, but in my experience it didn’t help much when it comes to TCS.

 

[BSDShoes]

I can't use manual because I play without sound mostly just using visual clues is near impossible

I do fine without sound, as soon as the RPM bar turns blue and flashes at least once it's time to shift. But the tire sounds is what's important and harder to deal with without sound.

TCS slows your top end speed down

No, it slows down your corner exits, it's a huge deal if you're in the top 3 during a race or trying to get better qualifying times. The other day driving the Huracan Gr3 in FIA, I had to turn on TCS in the later laps due to nearly 40% red tires and it was affecting my acceleration but not top speed.

 

[Khannie]

Did about 20 laps around Dragon Tail yesterday in a Vantage and spun out almost every lap during the first 5 or so laps. Did 15 consecutive laps cleanly, but my time didn't improve versus have TCS on 2. I think it is because I tried to feather it going out of turns to not spin out. Going to tinker a little bit more and also see if I can push the throttle some more to see where the limits are.

 

[Robben]

I do fine without sound, as soon as the RPM bar turns blue and flashes at least once it's time to shift. But the tire sounds is what's important and harder to deal with without sound.

Yeah I may start to try it... as you say the bar is pretty in your face as long as you peripherally pay attention to it. I've never used manual so it would be a big change. Which buttons do you use?

 

[BSDShoes]

Yeah I may start to try it... as you say the bar is pretty in your face as long as you peripherally pay attention to it. I've never used manual so it would be a big change. Which buttons do you use?

I use a wheel so paddles for shifting, otherwise if I'm on a controller usually square for down and circle for up.

Did about 20 laps around Dragon Tail yesterday in a Vantage and spun out almost every lap during the first 5 or so laps. Did 15 consecutive laps cleanly, but my time didn't improve versus have TCS on 2. I think it is because I tried to feather it going out of turns to not spin out. Going to tinker a little bit more and also see if I can push the throttle some more to see where the limits are.

What sections are you spinning on? You need to straighten your front wheels momentarily before gassing it.

 

[Robben]

I use a wheel so paddles for shifting, otherwise if I'm on a controller usually square for down and circle for up.

Ah, see it's more natural on a wheel with paddle shift..

 

[Mirror_man]

I guess the feedback helps you feel loss of traction so you can react better?

Exactly!!!

 

[polizei]

Did about 20 laps around Dragon Tail yesterday in a Vantage and spun out almost every lap during the first 5 or so laps. Did 15 consecutive laps cleanly, but my time didn't improve versus have TCS on 2. I think it is because I tried to feather it going out of turns to not spin out. Going to tinker a little bit more and also see if I can push the throttle some more to see where the limits are.

IMO, one of the biggest problems with the game physics is the rear kicking out way too fast. From the beta to now, things have improved drastically, but some cars are still ridiculously unrealistic, like the BMW M4 wanting to spin on every steering input for example. I'm hoping for more improvements in the overall game as they seem to be patching cars individually, which is not a good sign, imo. And is indicative to a flawed physics engine if they can't make cars behave predictably without adjusting them individually. Similar cars should behave similarly, 300hp, similar weight and bias, similar tires, and both RWD should be pretty close in handling,but in this game they can be completely different. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'd love to see this game properly data mined because I have a feeling there's a ton of weirdness going on behind the scenes.

 

[LennyB]

Ah, see it's more natural on a wheel with paddle shift..

If you are using the triggers for brake and gas I'd suggest using the shoulder buttons to shift.

 

[Robben]

If you are using the triggers for brake and gas I'd suggest using the shoulder buttons to shift.

Really? That would mean using middle fingers for R2 and L2 and index fingers for gear changes? I use index fingers on R2 and L2 currently...

 

[LennyB]

Really? That would mean using middle fingers for R2 and L2 and index fingers for gear changes? I use index fingers on R2 and L2 currently...

Yup.

Any combo of fingers actually, I can move my index fingers up and down though also.

 

[banckzy]

Really? That would mean using middle fingers for R2 and L2 and index fingers for gear changes? I use index fingers on R2 and L2 currently...

X and square worked perfect for me when i used DS4

 

[RaceFace85]

You can try to use a higher gear outside the corners.

 

[Mr616]

how can this help with TCS? I have mine set to 1 and people did say it is personal prefernece but now I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong.

To me it makes the wheel more connected to the car. On 1 it feels sloppy and no resistance or feel.

I have torques set on 3. Helps not over steering into corners for me.

 

[FerrellJ]

-Don't start getting on the gas until you can start to unwind the steering wheel. If the tires can't work any harder while coasting or trail braking, they aren't going to be doing any better when you apply throttle and take the weight off the fronts.
-Look ahead to where you want to be. If you are at the turn in point, you should be looking at the apex for example, not five feet in front of you.

Those two things are probably the biggest challenges I have because I didn't learn them right at the start. I have to consciously make myself wait for the wheel and look ahead when it should be natural.

 

[CastrolNSXJGTCJ]

Not sure how much help this is since I'm on a DS4 but I haven't used TCS since like the dawn of GT time (GT 1), mostly since it wasn't a feature I don't think. Nonetheless, things I've noticed through the decades:

-Be smooth. Turning, braking and accelerating. Most important.
-Practice. Then do it again, and after that try a little more practice.
-Patience.
-Manual transmission is your friend. You can upshift with good timing (comes with practice) to help with wheel spin at low speed. It can slow you down or cause even more wheel spin if done haphazardly, so use carefully. Also, nearly all cars seem to corner more stable in a gear speed that has the engine up high in it's rev range. This might be because of the default settings for the differentials that we can't ever change, but being smooth on the throttle will keep you out of trouble.
-Avoid turbo cars at first. Their powercurve and lag in building power across throttle inputs makes it tricky to track when your drivewheels will break free. NA cars are more linear and predictable.
-Use that string theory from above. Full throttle means you will not be able to have full turning authority, and the same is true for the opposite.
-Don't forget to be smooth!

 

[_ApexPredator]

The only thing I can think to add on top of what's already been said, is try to be conscious of what you're doing with the car's weight, and how that affects what you're asking of your tires.
This is predominantly useful for helping people understand why they can't seem to get the front of a car towards the apex like they envision in their mind, but it will also help you understand your traction issues when exiting a corner.

It's useful to imagine where the weight in the chassis is at each stage of the corner (entry, mid, exit), and how your inputs help shift it around, and how this can be used to your advantage.

So when you're accelerating towards a corner, the rear of the car is loaded.
When you begin braking, the weight is shifted from the rear to the front.

The crucial part of all of this is how you now shift that weight back to the rear (and the driving wheel) as you accelerate out; if you mash the throttle, the rear isn't loaded and the tires won't have the load they need to put the power down without spinning.
The aim is to apply partial throttle around mid-corner, so you begin to load up the rear, before gently increasing the amount of throttle and not over-working the rear tyres.

GT Sport in particular seems very sensitive to anything over half throttle, for most RWD cars. So just try to focus on applying half throttle, getting the rear loaded, and then attempting to get back to full throttle.

I think if you're able to get a good feel for this, you'll find driving without TCS easier.

 

[EDK]

I've seen a lot of comments on manual transmission and gear selection, but fewer comments on exactly what to do.

One thing that helps tremendously in the Gr. 3 cars (all of which are RWD) is to use one gear higher than you normally might coming out of tighter and high risk corners. It lets you get back on the throttle sooner without risk of spinning. Another way of saying that is make sure you are not in the upper end of the RPM range and power band while exiting a turn, as the car will be much more susceptible to spins.