Tire Load Indicator - How does it work?

[zodicus]

was messing with it last night to see if it could help me with my AC cobra set up, i wish the circles where a little closer togeather. I have to Look right at them to tell whats going on. If they where a little closer i could just drive and they would be in my line of sight. I might get used to it though. The cobra is the only car ive used this on, and they where very twitchy. The size of the circles would change very rapidly is this a normal thing or is this another set up problem with my cobra? This was on the ring witch is very bumpy so that could be it, but a few times they where changing so fast it looked like there where 3 circles

 

[MTLclllutch]

this tool has helped me so much already, it really makes working on the suspension rate and dampening much easier.

 

[bigberry]

Where is this indicator ? I cant see it, is it only viewable on replays ?

 

[RAVELLRON]

this indicator indicate the max surface of the tire = grip.. i tried it yesterday in endurance race, the back tires were more gripping than the fronts and fronts were represented with a smaller white circle than rears, after that front tires weared first tha rear one..
the play is to set the suspension and camber settings to match the tires load the most to have maxer grip and lesser wear.. really fun.. finally somethings useful to have an idea to do some settings right.

 

[shirakawaa]

this indicator indicate the max surface of the tire = grip.. i tried it yesterday in endurance race, the back tires were more gripping than the fronts and fronts were represented with a smaller white circle than rears, after that front tires weared first tha rear one..
the play is to set the suspension and camber settings to match the tires load the most to have maxer grip and lesser wear.. really fun.. finally somethings useful to have an idea to do some settings right.

This is not the best tool for camber tuning. On comfort soft/sports hard tires white circles remain most of the time at about halfway their total radius range, and the difference in size between the "optimal" camber and zero camber is very small. By the way, if it's grip then why making burnouts doesn't significantly reduce white circle size? By definition, when wheels are spinning, there should be very little grip.

The more I use (or at least, try to) this new feature the more I feel that this is yet another non-standard, poorly implemented idea by PD.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Where is this indicator ? I cant see it, is it only viewable on replays ?

Once you're on the track, hit start and go to the options menu, you'll find it there mate...

{Cy}

 

[Motor City Hami]

if it's grip then why making burnouts doesn't significantly reduce white circle size? By definition, when wheels are spinning, there should be very little grip.

I agree. I don't think it is showing grip. It is only showing load, but load is related to grip.

I'm finding this tool somewhat useful.
- To set ride height its a 10 out of 10
- Front rear balance, somewhat helpful
- Side to side balance, an indicator for anti roll bar settings, somewhat helpful
- Spring/damper stiffness, somewhat helpful
- Camber, still nothing in the game to indicate proper camber
- Tire wear between front and rear, meh. The tire heat/wear indicator is still the best tool for that.

My overall rating of this new tool; nice effort, thanks for adding, but more data could tell us so much more.

 

[RAVELLRON]

I agree. I don't think it is showing grip. It is only showing load, but load is related to grip.

I'm finding this tool somewhat useful.
- To set ride height its a 10 out of 10
- Front rear balance, somewhat helpful
- Side to side balance, an indicator for anti roll bar settings, somewhat helpful
- Spring/damper stiffness, somewhat helpful
- Camber, still nothing in the game to indicate proper camber
- Tire wear between front and rear, meh. The tire heat/wear indicator is still the best tool for that.

My overall rating of this new tool; nice effort, thanks for adding, but more data could tell us so much more.

in the game manual there wrote that indicate when tire is loading, tire surface contact, you have to work in settings to make this white circle the biggest you can.
there is nothing about camber in this game but this can help however..
when you accelerate on straight the load is more in the rear tyre cuz car settledown in the rear, when you turn the weight tranfer/roll to the side opposite the turn and here you will see how the tire surface in loading works.
so if you axagerate with front camber for example, you could see if the tire have a good surface or not, its something useful for camber to..
the role of camber is to work in roll loading not in straight..
for this i think that is useful for camber also this new addon..

 

[Lambob]

I took Kaz' new Nissan on the Nür last night, with the 4 large indicators on my screen, and tried to absorb all the new wonders of Spec 2.0.

So I spent 2 hours trying to figure out the flashing, or sometimes "stuck" red ! exclamation marks on the idicators. (those red dots are !) It is true, I have seen them flash at heaviest moments in the long dips, but what is strange to me, is I have seen them flash a few times when my car would seem to lift off 2 or three tires, (why would suspension botton out on that point?!) with the idicators flicking to red! too.

Example section , when climbing the first sharp right hander after the 2nd mini-carousel , where the car would jump up slightly while turning right, the indicators flash red when the wheel is light, and the car feels like its slipping to the left, albeit airbourne. A little confusing to me why it would feel to bottom out, when to me, it felt like the load was least at that point.

Then I took a new Nascar to the High Speed Ring, and the rear right would bottom out ! red on for a good 3 seconds while turning left at 305 km/hr. While that was happening, it felt as if the tire was either stuck against the chassis and not accellerating anymore, or it achieved simply it's greatest G force at that point.

Then I took the F1 to Tokyo, and at the long straight, both rear tires were ! the whole fast time.

edit: I'm thinking this idicator is purely load on tire, from the forces acting on them, around them. Parhaps downforce has a huge play on this, (as does equal and opposite force from the spring rate and damper settings and ride height) & perhaps could translate to tire wear rate. I'm thinking as heat is generated in the tire, so is the tire pressure, but we cannot adjust tire pressures!!

But what is confusing to me at this point is: does not necesarily coincide with the tire temps gauge in the hud, those go red in mild speed corners, while the large indicators in the middle of the screen do not.

I'm turning this stuff off, and going back to enjoying the drive.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Is it so hard to come up with a useful tool like this, and provide a clear, consice definition of how it works? Like a lot of things in this game, it seems as if no one speaks English at PD and everything in English is done through a no pay intern, English translator.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I just re-read the in-game description that I posted in the OP. Grip is mentioned 4 times and maximum grip is listed twice. The hint in that writing is to try to make the white circles as big as possible. That could include camber. Make camber only changes and see if the circle gets bigger. That could apply to any tune setting.

The other thing that is clear in the wording is that red indicates bottoming out. So its simple, make the white circles as big as possible and avoid red for bottoming out.

 

[shirakawaa]

I just re-read the in-game description that I posted in the OP. Grip is mentioned 4 times and maximum grip is listed twice. The hint in that writing is to try to make the white circles as big as possible. That could include camber. Make camber only changes and see if the circle gets bigger. That could apply to any tune setting.

There are some problems, though:
- White circles doesn't seem to reduce their size when sliding. As I previously mentioned, if a tire is sliding it means it has got little to no grip.
- On comfort tires it's essentially impossible in normal conditions to make white circles as big as the big gray ones. Even several degrees of camber don't affect their size much.
- Using very soft suspensions and a high ride height doesn't affect noticeably white circle size either

The other thing that is clear in the wording is that red indicates bottoming out. So its simple, make the white circles as big as possible and avoid red for bottoming out.

This is pretty much the only thing that is clear about this chart.

 

[CyKosis1973]

I have seen them flash at heaviest moments in the long dips, but what is strange to me, is I have seen them flash a few times when my car would seem to lift off 2 or three tires, (why would suspension botton out on that point?!) with the idicators flicking to red! too.

Does this perhaps suggest then that the suspension has reached its maximum extension?? If it flashes red when fully loaded and when under no load at all...

{Cy}

 

[Lambob]

Does this perhaps suggest then that the suspension has reached its maximum extension?? If it flashes red when fully loaded and when under no load at all...

{Cy}

good theory, but proven false, when taking the first jump after the 1st bridge (Quiddlebacher section), both front wheels are in the air for 1 and a half seconds, with no red dots. I am certain that the shocks are almost fully extended at this point, unless some physics law has me wrong. (tires are spinning too fast to prevent extention? lol)

 

[shirakawaa]

From the scrolling quick help in the options screen:

Toggle the Tyre Load Indicator, which shows the weight distribution over all four wheels during races and replays, ON/OFF. During races, this can also be toggled from the Quick Options section of the Pause Menu.

It doesn't mention grip here, but weight distribution instead.

 

[UnionStrike]

From the scrolling quick help in the options screen:


It doesn't mention grip here, but weight distribution instead.

Lol yeah, I could gather that it shows weight distribution as well while trying out tire load indicator with a fwd car, heavier up front, lighter in the back, logical..

I think it's not a grip indicator since if you were to try drifting, the grip would be very low, but it doesn't decrease, the circles stay constantly loaded as just moments before losing grip.

 

[Revengel]

I have to say I'm a fan of the new load indicator and I took it as the following:

1) It shows what percentage of tire is contacting the road. Good to know - it's helped me in places like the loop on Cape Ring.

2) The red flash tells me if/when I've bottomed out. I didn't feel I was doing so before and now I have even more proof.

3) Coupled with the tire wear/temperature indicator I feel that I have a better understanding of how my car-du-jour is contacting the road, and just how much I can push it.


My feeling is this: It's not something for everyone but it's up to us (as individuals) to either find a use for this indicator or not. I've found it extremely helpful and I feel I've just scratched the surface.


Just an opinion,

Revengel

 

[shirakawaa]

I think it's not a grip indicator since if you were to try drifting, the grip would be very low, but it doesn't decrease, the circles stay constantly loaded as just moments before losing grip.

Yet, if you go on low grip surfaces, circles get smaller. It's really confusing.

 

[UnionStrike]

My feeling is this: It's not something for everyone but it's up to us (as individuals) to either find a use for this indicator or not. I've found it extremely helpful and I feel I've just scratched the surface.


Just an opinion,

Revengel

Signed, though I feel that the visual aspect isn't strong enough and could be a bit clearer than what it is now (Circles too difficult to focus on while driving as well, even when I'm not pushing hard), using colors to display different values would help immensely.

 

[UnionStrike]

Yet, if you go on low grip surfaces, circles get smaller. It's really confusing.

What I'm theorizing here, is just how pd programs the physic engine for different elements. Instead of simulating a sandpit properly they might have opped to mess around with the value of the car's weight to simulate the loss of traction and difficulty of getting out (thus creating a symptom similar to when load decreases in the TLI). It's odd, but at least knowing the exact tire load or grip in a sandpit is moot as long as it works fine for what it's intended to do on the track.

Edit: Whoops, I thought I was editing my last post.

 

[RAVELLRON]

There are some problems, though:
- White circles doesn't seem to reduce their size when sliding. As I previously mentioned, if a tire is sliding it means it has got little to no grip.
- On comfort tires it's essentially impossible in normal conditions to make white circles as big as the big gray ones. Even several degrees of camber don't affect their size much.
- Using very soft suspensions and a high ride height doesn't affect noticeably white circle size either


This is pretty much the only thing that is clear about this chart.

it's not true, this depend from how hot is the tire and compound, in drifting driver have always all the surface of tire on ther ground but power of engine is superior than grip of tire..
about esclamation point is when compression is maxed out, about extension there isn't a tips yet..

 

[Revengel]

Understood.

I actually found myself glad that they were subtle so that I could integrate them into my field of view the same way I use the tire life/temp indicators.

My next step is to take a long time to check & test some tunes for a select few cars I have. Should be fun!

 

[shirakawaa]

Edited - maybe it was not the case. Need more research.

it's not true, this depend from how hot is the tire and compound, in drifting driver have always all the surface of tire on ther ground but power of engine is superior than grip of tire..

What I meant is that if tires are sliding, and if the indicator is supposed to show grip, then I would expect white circles to decrease significantly in size.

 

[esoxhntr]

Edited - maybe it was not the case. Need more research.


What I meant is that if tires are sliding, and if the indicator is supposed to show grip, then I would expect white circles to decrease significantly in size.

If it is truly a load indicator, than I would not expect the white circles to decrease when sliding as you are not changing the load placed on that corner(s).

Seems to be just that, how much load is on that tire at that instance. You can see it shifting around as you brake/accelerate/corner. Or, indirectly, a weight transfer indicator.

Doesn't explain why the white circle shrinks when you are in the grass or sand though. Perhaps it is showing pressure on the contact patch and a soft surface like sand absorbs some of that load whereas a hard surface like pavement does not?

 

[shirakawaa]

Ever wondered why even though it might take some effort to break traction (for example when accelerating), once wheels are slipping you need to slow down wheels [relatively] significantly in order to regain traction? That's what I was referring to. It doesn't seem that this chart shows really "grip". But it doesn't seem to really show "load" either.

 

[Z Crazy]

I think people are confusing this indicator as a type of traction circle, I don't think that is at all the intention. I see this tool as a conceptual view of the tire contact patch with a provision for shock end travel. I'm finding it very useful in determining the following:
-Finding correct ride heights, in the past you had to guess as to whether not you were actually bottoming out, now you can see it definitively.
-Good to help determine dampening, effectively, it's a view of the tire connection to the road (I view it as a contact patch but not really a great way to describe it), Various types of changes in contact patch will tell you if the tire is leaving the ground for too long and you can make changes to correct and verify it through this indicator.
-Spring rate fine tuning, I've use it to confirm how soft I could go before excessively bottoming out the suspension.

*Also remember, tire load is not a indicator of tire grip, but tire grip is related. More load = more grip. For an illustration on this concept just take a pecil's eraser and slide it across your desktop with only the weight of the pencil and note the level of friction, then do the same thing while pressing down on it. More load = More grip.

 

[IforceV8]

To see how the white circles work with the weight distribution of the load up Trial Mountain, jump in the Caterham Seven,add 200kg of ballast to the car making the weight balance 73-27 and enter the track.Park the car and note the size of the white circles.The front will be twice the size of the rear

Now go back and shift all that weight to the rear and go back on the track.The circles will now be opposite-smaller in front,big in rear.

Finally go back and set the weight balance to 50-50 and re-enter the track.The circles will now be even on all 4 corners.

To see how the red !! works and the weight distribution changes setup the car so the springs rates are 5.0/5.0.,ride height at 0/0.Now drive around the track to the downhill left after T3 were you can see the lake.The curbing on the outside edge of the track is high enough to park the car at a 45 degree angle with a front wheel on the top of the curb fully compressed.If you do it just right the red ! will be on and the rear wheel on the same side of the car will be off the ground and the white circle will be gone.

 

[Dave_Panic]

ok A level physics coming through here...

it's a load indicator. the amount of "grip" a tyre has is the maximum load/force that can be applied before traction is lost. the size of the circle indicates the load/force on the tyre.

the circle changes sizes when you drive on different surfaces because the maximum force that can be applied to it decreases (because they are slipperier).

the reason the inner circle never grows beyond the outer circle is because the tyre cannot push back off the road more than that and any extra over the top of that goes into making the car slide.

 

[bypo]

why we don´t send a tweet or a email to kaz or pd and ask for some direct information about it?

 

[CyKosis1973]

So, has there been any kind of consensus as to what the difference is between a red circle and a red circle !..?? I've seen both. I'll assume that the red ! is the car bottoming out, but what about a plain red circle..??

Ta,
{Cy}