Tire Wear 2.08

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HaylRayzor

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HaylRayzor
Since my driving is not consistent enough to make accurate comparisons I decided to let Bob do a back-to-back comparo of tire wear 2.07 vs 2.08.

In the A-spec Nurburg 4 hour race:

Note that pit stops were always required for tires in 2.07. But in 2.08 some cars ran out of tires first, some ran out of fuel first, and some ran out of both at the same time.

For those that don't know, the AI run Racing Medium in this event. Also, the AI runs flat out the whole race. There is no "temperature" for the AI in A-spec races.

............................... 2.07 ............................ 2.08

Audi R8 LMS ...... 28 laps 4:08'04 2-lap.......... 28 4:04:10 4-lap Tires
Z-tune Z33 ....... 26 laps 4:00'54 2-lap.......... 27 4:07:01 4-lap Tires
RUF CTR2 .......... 26 laps 4:03'17 2-lap......... 26 4:00:36 5-lap Tires/Fuel
380RS .............. 26 laps 4:03'30 3-lap.......... 26 4:06:34 4-lap Tires
Yellow Bird ........ 26 laps 4:03'38 1-lap.......... 26 4:02:10 2-lap Tires
Mines BNR34 Vsp. 26 laps 4:03'34 4-lap.......... 26 4:01:39 5-lap Fuel
Mines BNR34 N1 .. 26 laps 4:03'58 4-lap......... 26 4:02:24 5-lap Fuel
HKS CT230R ...... 26 laps 4:03'48 4-lap.......... 26 4:01:33 6-lap Fuel
Opera 350Z ....... 26 laps 4:09'19 2or3-lap...... 25 4:01:50 6-lap Tires/Fuel
GT Skyline ........ 25 laps 4:00'15 3-lap........... 26 4:08:06 5-lap Fuel
Art Morrison ...... 25 laps 4:01'11 2-lap........... 26 4:08:36 4-lap Tires

Only the Opera 350Z ran slower, but I suspect he had some kind of problem (probably the Yellow Bird which was still crashing multiple times).
 
I'm doing the Tsukuba 9hr in the HPA Audi Twin Turbo +oil, new wheels, and low-rev (1) turbo upgrade. The AWD's front tyres wear much quicker than the rear, so I've been experimenting with softer compounds at the back. I'll begin running the same compounds, front and rear, for a while from this point.

I'm just over 3 hours into the race, 8 laps up on 2nd, and I will be completing the race over several days. I am driving moderately on all compounds--keeping the tyres out of the red, otherwise going as consistently fast as I can.

As well as I can judge, I'm pitting at the same point for each set of tyres: when the front left is down to the bare minimum and both front tyres begin to easily turn red at ordinary speeds on the same corners.

(Front tyres, rear tyres)

First stint: RS RS: pit lap 33 (33 laps)
2nd: RM RS: pit lap 73 (40 laps)
3rd: RH RS: pit lap 126 (53 laps)
4th: RS RS: pit lap 163 (37 laps)
5th: RM RM: pit lap 205 (42 laps)
----Edit-----
6th: RH RH: pit lap 263 (58 laps)
7th: RM RM: pit lap 306 (42 laps)
8th: RH RH: pit lap 368 (62 laps)
----Edit----
9th: RS RS: pit lap 404 (36 laps)
10th RM RM: pit lap 442 (38 laps)
11th RM RM: pit lap 481 (39 laps)
 
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I have seen comments that endurance races are ruined now because you can run race softs for an entire fuel run.

What I have found is that tire wear is about double what it was. So it does make racing soft tires much more advantageous than before.

And in some cases you can go an entire fuel run on soft tires. That happens sometimes in real life too. If you don't want people to use soft tires don't allow them. Spec tires are also realistic.

This doesn't ruin endurance races. It just changes them. Makes them more realistic. In my opinion the previous tire wear ruined endurance races. This change fixes them.
 
Agreed. That's what happens in the real world. In endurance races, pitstops are for fuel.

Tyres are designed to last as long as appropriate for the rules.

In LMP1 because you can't change to tyres at the same time as refueling so you double/triple or quadruple the tyre stints as required by driver changes.

In categories where there is no such restriction, they change tyres each time they pit.

Either way, the pitstops are always fuel limited and never tyre limited.
 
HaylRayzor
I have seen comments that endurance races are ruined now because you can run race softs for an entire fuel run.

What I have found is that tire wear is about double what it was. So it does make racing soft tires much more advantageous than before.

And in some cases you can go an entire fuel run on soft tires. That happens sometimes in real life too. If you don't want people to use soft tires don't allow them. Spec tires are also realistic.

This doesn't ruin endurance races. It just changes them. Makes them more realistic. In my opinion the previous tire wear ruined endurance races. This change fixes them.

I was in an endurance yesterday and I decided to use racing hard tyres whereas everyone else used racing soft tyres. I did this because I hoped that I could win or at least be competitive on number of pit stops but that never came into question as I consistently lost 2-3 seconds in each sector. So now I just wonder when one would use racing hard opposed to racing soft?
 
I was in an endurance yesterday and I decided to use racing hard tyres whereas everyone else used racing soft tyres. I did this because I hoped that I could win or at least be competitive on number of pit stops but that never came into question as I consistently lost 2-3 seconds in each sector. So now I just wonder when one would use racing hard opposed to racing soft?

When your horsepower is low enough to take advantage of the added fuel economy along with the hard tires life span.

At Le mans for example, for every 50 horsepower sliced off you gain about just a lap's worth of fuel (in my cars at least).

At 750 HP my Audi can do 12 laps max on RM fronts and RH rear. 13 laps at 700 HP and 14 laps at 650 HP. If you're doing realistic horsepower levels, like at 650 HP, then the race becomes much more "realistic", in that the fuel is the limiting factor this time around.
 
Is the tyre wear only changed within the paramaters of the endurance races, or is it changed everywhere?
 
sumbrownkid
When your horsepower is low enough to take advantage of the added fuel economy along with the hard tires life span.

At Le mans for example, for every 50 horsepower sliced off you gain about just a lap's worth of fuel (in my cars at least).

At 750 HP my Audi can do 12 laps max on RM fronts and RH rear. 13 laps at 700 HP and 14 laps at 650 HP. If you're doing realistic horsepower levels, like at 650 HP, then the race becomes much more "realistic", in that the fuel is the limiting factor this time around.

Never thought about that but interesting. Thanks!
 
I have seen comments that endurance races are ruined now because you can run race softs for an entire fuel run.

What I have found is that tire wear is about double what it was. So it does make racing soft tires much more advantageous than before.

I can agree with this. I do wish that the hard and medium tires were competitive. Nobody should be limited to the softest tire allowed if they want to win.
 
Im right now also doing the Tsukuba 9 hrs with my Evo X. After some suspension settings Ive managed to get 80 laps per pit, but notbecause of the tires, bit because I run out of fuel. The tires can do like 5 more laps I estimate, so Im loving this change to the tire wear. And Im not driving too fast or too slow, just conservative: fast as posible on the straights and moderate on the curves, not forcing the tires too much. The car has 540 hp on RH tires.
 
I do a lot of B-Spec endurance racing (because I legitimately enjoy watching them), and I'm currently having fun noting all of the positive changes to things now (for example, the Yellowbird is now a total contender for the win in the Nuburgring 4 Hour race). I'm also trying to put together "project cars" that can take advantage of the new tire wear rates.


My favorite patch since the one that allowed wheel changes.
 
I can agree with this. I do wish that the hard and medium tires were competitive. Nobody should be limited to the softest tire allowed if they want to win.

According to tests posted here in the past it has always been true in GT5 that soft tires are faster in the short run and in the long run for most cars at most tracks. The previous accelerated tire wear did take that advantage away in some cases but it made worse problems that what it was supposed to fix.
 
I have seen comments that endurance races are ruined now because you can run race softs for an entire fuel run.

What I have found is that tire wear is about double what it was. So it does make racing soft tires much more advantageous than before.

And in some cases you can go an entire fuel run on soft tires. That happens sometimes in real life too. If you don't want people to use soft tires don't allow them. Spec tires are also realistic.

This doesn't ruin endurance races. It just changes them. Makes them more realistic. In my opinion the previous tire wear ruined endurance races. This change fixes them.

In my test (see 2nd post), even with partial fuel, I have not had an instance where the fuel has outlasted the tyres. Clearly at least race cars are required before such a thing can happen.
 
In my test (see 2nd post), even with partial fuel, I have not had an instance where the fuel has outlasted the tyres. Clearly at least race cars are required before such a thing can happen.

Driving style has alot to do with it. I always pit between 1/2 and 1/4 tires because I find my lap times drop off too much and I can more than make up the time it takes to pit with faster laps.

I just did a test of a 530PP Amuse R1 in the N4 event (RH tires) and I found I was getting 7 laps until the tires were at 1/4. The fuel will go 8 laps so even though the tires technically outlast the fuel I still pit for tires before I need to pit for fuel.

Racing cars aren't necessarily harder on tires than street cars. But obviously the tires you normally find on race cars wear faster than the tires you normally find on street cars.
 
Driving style has alot to do with it. I always pit between 1/2 and 1/4 tires because I find my lap times drop off too much and I can more than make up the time it takes to pit with faster laps.

I just did a test of a 530PP Amuse R1 in the N4 event (RH tires) and I found I was getting 7 laps until the tires were at 1/4. The fuel will go 8 laps so even though the tires technically outlast the fuel I still pit for tires before I need to pit for fuel.

Racing cars aren't necessarily harder on tires than street cars. But obviously the tires you normally find on race cars wear faster than the tires you normally find on street cars.

In the HPA Audi, I'm running my RM tyres until the left front is a tiny sliver (for evenness of comparison) and I'm not quite using half a fuel tank.

Racing cars aren't necessarily harder on tires than street cars.

I didn't suggest they were. My point was, in effect, the opposite: a race car may run out of fuel before its tyres wear out, whereas the subject of my test is coming no-where near that point.
 
I like the tyre waer much better now, at least we can put in more laps without them falling to peices. However, I think there should be an option to scale the tyre wear to suit online racing, maybe using a percentage slider bar.


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The organisors of the events you race in should be taking tyre wear into account and allocating tyres to make the race as fair and exciting as possible.

For our races that require pitstops we'll allocate tyres accordingly, so it means different strategies can be used by the members without one tyre compound being more advantageous than the other.

Alot of the time this meant not using Racing Soft tyres, although now 2.08 has changed tyre wear, we have to re-test and look into the possibilities of using RS tyres in the future.

We use hards and mediums in our DTM championship. Did a 25 lap @ Grand Valley full circuit and in the last 2 laps the 2nd to 5th positions (all in different cars / tyre combos) were split by just a few seconds. Most having made the entire race with only 1 small mistake costing them just a few seconds.

You can't just throw something together with one set of tyres and hope for fair performance equality and exciting racing. The more testing you do and the more you use the regulations to make the race equal, the more exciting the race will become, yet still remain fair as everyone has the same choices - it's about which of the choices you go for.
 
Do rain tires actually produce more grip than intermediates in 60-100% wetness?

I haven't studied this in detail, but my experience is that rain tyres almost never do any good. But I also think that GT5 simulates the racing line (where most cars drives) being less wet than other parts of the track, so maybe if you leave the dry line there is more aquaplaning on slicks and intermediates than rain tyres?

All I know is that when in doubt I go for the slicks.
 
^I managed to buy me some time away for school work so I can sort this out myself, and from what I've gathered so far, Racing rain tires do provide more grip than intermediates at around 70% and up. You can brave it out on intermediates, but I found rain tires to be much more useful this time around.
 
^I managed to buy me some time away for school work so I can sort this out myself, and from what I've gathered so far, Racing rain tires do provide more grip than intermediates at around 70% and up. You can brave it out on intermediates, but I found rain tires to be much more useful this time around.
True, but physics has to be set to "real". Perhaps this was what eran missed.
 
True, but physics has to be set to "real". Perhaps this was what eran missed.

When I ran the 24 Hours of Nurburgring, I was a full minute faster on intermediates than rain tires, and that was at 100% wetness. From what I've heard, it's because the physics inexplicably aren't set to "real" for the A-Spec Endurance races. It makes a heck of a difference changing those settings.

Edit: I ran the race pre-2.08, but I don't think that should make a difference because the physics setting didn't change with the update, at least not that I'm aware of.
 
When I ran the 24 Hours of Nurburgring, I was a full minute faster on intermediates than rain tires, and that was at 100% wetness. From what I've heard, it's because the physics inexplicably aren't set to "real" for the A-Spec Endurance races. It makes a heck of a difference changing those settings.

Edit: I ran the race pre-2.08, but I don't think that should make a difference because the physics setting didn't change with the update, at least not that I'm aware of.
As far as I know do all a-spec races have physics set to low. However, online or in arcade or practice mode the difference is like day and night.
 
I have mixed feelings about the new tire wear rates.

For one, longer lasting tires means closer races and more time spent on the track, which is almost always a plus.

But on the other hand, there's little advantage in using one of the extremely lightweight cars now because the main advantage was staying out of the pits longer than everyone else. Sure, the lightweight cars stay out longer too, but its to the point where if you dont drive fast enough, the more powerful cars will blow you away even after they pit.
 
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