Tires, the facts [update in progress]

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|martin|

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Hi,
I was not able to find a topic containing all tire-facts organised into one topic, so I thought I'd start one.

People can ask questions about tires here, and I'll update this first post to list all the answers.

Facts:
- Tires are divided into 3 categories: Comfort, sports and Racing. Racing tires cost more than sports and comfort tires but have more grip.
- Each of the tire types is subdivided into Hard, Medium and Soft. Soft tires will tear down faster than hard tires, but offer much more grip.
- When buying racing tires you'll also get rain and intermediate tires. Rain tires are meant for rainy circuits, and intermediates are for circuits that contain both dry and wet conditions.
- Tires last for a lifetime. They do wear out in a race, but everytime you start a new race new tires are put on.
- Tire Color indicator: Light blue is warm, red is hot and dark blue is cold. The inside of the squares go away as the tires wear out.

- If you buy tires, but don't install they go into your "items" menu, where paints are kept. You can install them from there. This is the same as with other tuning parts.

Questions:
- Do hard racing tires give more grip than soft sports tires (same with hard sports vs soft comfort)?
- When using hard tires, does the top speed increase compared to using soft tires of the same class?
- How much grip do rain and intermediate tires give compared to hard/medium/soft racing tires?
- What type of racing tires do you choose for what track length? (f.e. up to 10.000 miles soft, up to 20k medium and above hard). Assume a decent car (Corvette ZR1 on nurburgring f.i.). Also, hard tires probably tear down just as fast as soft tires on tracks with a lot of small bends because you slip way more often when pulling out of the corner..
- When participating in race series, are the tires refreshed by every race? It would seem natural but somehow I doubted it when I participated in one the other day
- Car characteristics. Drivingmeinsane said: light cars are easier on the tires, can anyone confirm that? You might argue that light cars would slip more often so it could just be the driving style.
- What happens when you have tire-wear on tracks that have no pitlane? Does the game just let you race till your tires die and then you lose?


Best regards,
Martin
 
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If you buy, but don't install they go into your "items" menu, where paints are kept. You can install them from there. This is the same as with other tuning parts.

No idea what you mean by color..
 
I think he meant the little graph on the bottom left. They tell you which tire is being worked. I think light blue is the normal and red is when they are skidding. Dark is cold. I haven't found life to be much of an issue yet, they do drop off when you overdrive them and you notice they stay red/light pink ish for longer period...
 
No46_TheDoctor
I think the tyres warm up too quickly.
Click to expand...

My assumption is this process is sped up slightly due to the 3 lap race format.

Additional question: How much effect does car weight have on tyre wear?
Could someone run a parallel test with something like a Lotus vs something super heavy?
 
Deadmeat238
Additional question: How much effect does car weight have on tyre wear?
Could someone run a parallel test with something like a Lotus vs something super heavy?
Click to expand...


Car Weight Defo made a difference to tire life in GT4. After i Golded everything in GT4 (100%) i restarted the game but used different cars. the first time around i used a light weight car (cant remember which, may have been an Elise) for Nurburgring 24Hr, i would get 4 laps out of it before a change was needed. 2nd time around i did it with a Lotus Carlton and had to change tires (sports hard i think?) every 3 laps, so i assume those same principles/physics apply to GT5.
 
A thing I noticed, is that hard race tires vs soft tires are not lasting much longer, I would expect them to last at least twice but they dont, because they are so slippery compared to the soft tires, that they wear very fast as well, so they are worthless.
 
pestif8500
A thing I noticed, is that hard race tires vs soft tires are not lasting much longer, I would expect them to last at least twice but they dont, because they are so slippery compared to the soft tires, that they wear very fast as well, so they are worthless.
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I think hard tires are meant more for tracks like daytona. I think I remember from GT4 that The top speed of a car increases when you put hard tires on it cuz you have less friction. Anyone tested this?

Thx for the answers/questions, keep them coming!
 
What happens when you have tire-wear on tracks that have no pitlane? Does the game just let you race till your tires die and then you lose?
 
- Do hard racing tires give more grip than soft sports tires (same with hard sports vs soft comfort)?

Comfort tires are like road going tyres. Sports tires are semi-racing tires. Racing tires are full blown racing tires. So racing tires have more grip than sport tires and sport tires have more grip than comfort tires regardless of the compound, you get more grip the more you pay. So yes, hard racing tyres offer more grip and more life than soft sports tyres.

- When using hard tires, does the top speed increase compared to using soft tires of the same class?

No, top speed doesn’t increase due to any compound, the only difference you will see is higher cornering speeds the higher up the list you go. Racing softs will corner a lot faster than comfort softs.

- How much grip do rain and intermediate tires give compared to hard/medium/soft racing tires?

Intermediate and Wet tyres are only for wet conditions and give less grip than dry racing tyres. Intermediate are for light rain / a damp track. Wet tyres are for heavy rain / very wet track (with standing water)

- What type of racing tires do you choose for what track length? (f.e. up to 10.000 miles soft, up to 20k medium and above hard). Assume a decent car (Corvette ZR1 on nurburgring f.i.). Also, hard tires probably tear down just as fast as soft tires on tracks with a lot of small bends because you slip way more often when pulling out of the corner.

If you drive smoothly, then there will be a great difference in wear rates. With smooth driving, the hard tyres will last a lot longer than the soft tyres.

- When participating in race series, are the tires refreshed by every race? It would seem natural but somehow I doubted it when I participated in one the other day

I’m not sure on this one so someone else will have to pick this up, from experience it seems to be a new set each race but I don’t know for definite.

- Car characteristics. Drivingmeinsane said: light cars are easier on the tires, can anyone confirm that? You might argue that light cars would slip more often so it could just be the driving style.

Yes light cars are better on tyres, this is because the tyres go through less forces as it is easier to accelerate, turn and decelerate a lighter mass compared to a heavier mass.

- What happens when you have tire-wear on tracks that have no pitlane? Does the game just let you race till your tires die and then you lose?

Not a clue, I assume the races that you do endurance races on will have a pit lane, pitting is not a part of every race.
 
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- How does the grip drop off as the tyre wear progresses?

As the tyres start to degrade then the grip will start to reduce. When this starts to happen the grip starts to reduce in stages, you can think of it as going from soft racing tyres, to medium racing tyres, to hard racing tyres, to soft sports tyres and so on. You're car will just get slippier and slippier, meaning your braking zones will be extended and your acceleration zones will require even better throttle control as it'll be easier to spin the wheels.

Any more tyre questions feel free to ask :)
 
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Based on GT4 yes the tires get better with every step Hard Sport > soft comfort Hard race > soft sport.

I ran some tests in GT4 around Motegi speedway where I started with the lowest tire and worked up one by one running 5 laps on each with everything remaining the same. There was on average about 1/2 second difference in lap time with each tire change. Of course GT4 had 5 grades of race tire but the difference was very noticable in each tire.

Overall my lap times were around 9 seconds faster with the best race tire vs the worst comfort tire and of course this is a short oval track so 9 seconds is a huge amount of time here.
 
HBR-Roadhog
Based on GT4 yes the tires get better with every step Hard Sport > soft comfort Hard race > soft sport.

I ran some tests in GT4 around Motegi speedway where I started with the lowest tire and worked up one by one running 5 laps on each with everything remaining the same. There was on average about 1/2 second difference in lap time with each tire change. Of course GT4 had 5 grades of race tire but the difference was very noticable in each tire.

Overall my lap times were around 9 seconds faster with the best race tire vs the worst comfort tire and of course this is a short oval track so 9 seconds is a huge amount of time here.
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Arguably not a complete test either, you'll start to see bigger gaps on an proper track as you find more and more difference braking accelerating and turning. Still very interesting to see the time difference on an oval track though! Would love to know the difference between tyres around the Nurburgring!
 
In the real life the tire choice isn't only about how many laps do you want to do before doing a pit stop, but also are the tires able to reach their optimal operational temperatures. For example: it's better to run with hard compound with optimal temps than with overheaten mediums and mediums in optimal temps can outlast slipping cold hards. Don't know how GT5 handles this as track temperatures aren't visible to player (if there even is a model for track temperatures). Also the modelling of tire temperatures seem vague based on what i have read thus far.
 
Hig-GT
Arguably not a complete test either, you'll start to see bigger gaps on an proper track as you find more and more difference braking accelerating and turning. Still very interesting to see the time difference on an oval track though! Would love to know the difference between tyres around the Nurburgring!
Click to expand...
Actually it was a very proper test as on Forza I am consistant top 100 on this track in evey class of car. Trust me I did not learn anything new as to line or braking points during the tests.

The times I mentioned were all valid and consistant, I even as a test went back to the lower tires after running them all and the times were pretty much the same as the first time through. The major differences was the speed at which the corners could be taken and the top speed of the car on the straights I was hitting up to 20-30 mph faster on the straights with the better tires due to better corner exit speeds.
 
Re: Light cars are easier on tires. I'm not sure this makes sense. Tires have a set amount of force they can withstand (before sliding), regardless of the car. So if you're turning in a heavy car, you might have a limit of 50mph, while in a light car you can get to 80mph. But in either case, the force exerted on the tires is being "maxed out."
 
Apollo33
Re: Light cars are easier on tires. I'm not sure this makes sense. Tires have a set amount of force they can withstand (before sliding), regardless of the car. So if you're turning in a heavy car, you might have a limit of 50mph, while in a light car you can get to 80mph. But in either case, the force exerted on the tires is being "maxed out."
Click to expand...

Your reasoning seems sound. But I think on the straight, when you're not accelerating or decelerating the tires should wear down faster I think with heavier cars. Perhaps we can call in Mythbusters for some non-conclusive answers? :)
 
Light cars are easier on tires. This makes sense.

Why?

It is a lot easier to stop, turn and accelerate a light car. Thus meaning that the tyres have less work to do in a normal race. Meaning less tyre wear.

It is a lot harder to stop, turn and accelerate a heavy car. Thus meaning that the tyres will have to work harder during the race to slow the car down, turn the car and then accelerate it. Meaning more tyre wear.

In F1 the tyre wear is higher because of the full tanks, but coming to the end of the race, the car gets lighter and therefore tyre wear begins to decrease because the car is lighter. Weight is one of the deciding factors in tyre wear, as it is what exerts most force on the tyres, I do think regardless, smooth driving considered, that a lighter car will be easier on tyres.

I might do some test runs this weekend if I get chance and I'll post up the results. Have got a busy weekend coming though so no promises ...
 
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Does the tire wear apply to all aspecs of GT5 like arcade mode, apec mode, B spec mode and others? I don't notice it too much in some parts of the game. Is there an option settings to heavy, medium and light tire wear somewhere in the game?
 
i dont see any tyre wear in a spec or b spec. There is tyre wear online, maybe its optional for the host of the room. I havnt done arcade races and i havent done enduros so i cant say for those.

when online the tyre icons will deplete with damage. It takes maybe 40+ seconds of circle work to destroy rear tyres, if you treat them nice they last for 10+ mins. Grip seems ok for first 2/3 of tyre life atleast.
 
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So after reading all of this it seems like if there is a car that is too powerful and it seems to be skidding a lot, we should put better tires with more grip to maintain control, right?

ie. I'm having trouble controlling the Nissan 370Z (stock tires: Sports Hard), if I put on either Sports Soft or any Racing tires, I'll have a lot more control of the car?

Also, the Comfort Hard tires would be the most slick tires, right? I should use comfort tires when wanting to drift?
 
MrGrado
i dont see any tyre wear in a spec or b spec. There is tyre wear online, maybe its optional for the host of the room. I havnt done arcade races and i havent done enduros so i cant say for those.

when online the tyre icons will deplete with damage. It takes maybe 40+ seconds of circle work to destroy rear tyres, if you treat them nice they last for 10+ mins. Grip seems ok for first 2/3 of tyre life atleast.
Click to expand...



What level are you on, there is definitely tyre wear on extreme and endurance events. Your tyre display depletes as the tyres become worn, with a noticeable effect on grip.
 
Clutch34
So after reading all of this it seems like if there is a car that is too powerful and it seems to be skidding a lot, we should put better tires with more grip to maintain control, right?

ie. I'm having trouble controlling the Nissan 370Z (stock tires: Sports Hard), if I put on either Sports Soft or any Racing tires, I'll have a lot more control of the car?

Also, the Comfort Hard tires would be the most slick tires, right? I should use comfort tires when wanting to drift?
Click to expand...

If there is a car that is skidding a lot maybe you should look at using traction control or watching your throttle control, but putting grippier tyres on would help you keep control yes.

If you put sports soft or any of the racing tyres on you will have more grip which means more control.

When drifiting you'll have to vary the tyres you use, or at least thats what I do, I think you find a certain set up with a certain tyre that suits how you want to drift. You can kick the back end out with any set of tyres if you get it right.
 
Something I noticed was that when racing in a championship the first race, the tires would be cold as expected. However I noticed that they would be warm and as the series progressed it seemed like the tires were always starting at light blue, and where very quick to get hot. So I figured for the next series I would equip my car with three different sets of tires. Didn't make a difference. If I had hard tires on the first race, then put soft or medium on before the second race, they would already be light blue.
 
The OP asks some good questions! 👍

Here one more:

Why does a car accelerate slower with hard tires than soft tires? I know hard tires have less grip, but I have seen examples where there is no loss of traction, but a noticeable loss in acceleration. 👍
 
When you are on a track with no pit lane and you wear your tires completely, you just have very very low traction when the tires are completely worn. (Tested with Veyron on TGTT online)

EDIT: Also, even if you put racing hards on and the track is very twisty and you get loose a tad, they still wear slower than softs if you keep the car under control.
 
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I would like to know this:

DO you guys think that sports hard or comfort soft tyres are the proper tyres the simulate road tyres on cars like the f430 Scuderia and the Nissan GTR??

0-100 times suggest sports hard but lap times suggest comfort soft tyres.

I am using a dualshock 3 though and i don't have a feel for the car as much as you guys with wheels and pedals.
 
magburner
The OP asks some good questions! 👍

Here one more:

Why does a car accelerate slower with hard tires than soft tires? I know hard tires have less grip, but I have seen examples where there is no loss of traction, but a noticeable loss in acceleration. 👍
Click to expand...


At the end of the day it is all to do with the amount of grip the tyres have. You just wont have the same amount of traction coming out of the corners as the tyres will not byte into the track as much. It's like in the Formula 1, you don't see cars spinning their wheels up but you will still see some cars exiting the corner faster than others due to the difference in trcation.
 
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