To Cheese or not to cheese...

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Antagonist

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I've been analyzing the launch, etc, and I think Sony and Kaz have accidentally (or maybe planned) stumbled upon a new grass roots strategy. Release the game in a "good enough" form, then listen to the consumers as you constantly refine and update the final version. Quite genius actually as it's the only way to fulfill the promises of a project with this much hype. So for that I give respect and I'm curious to watch the future play out.

With that aside my only worry is them adding some "cheese" factor to appease fans. This could take many forms but the one I'm most in fear of is Sony/PD offering pay-for-credits, a la EA's latest strategies. I just imagine a bunch of spoiled kids who can't drive/play worth anything, using mommies credit card to buy $20,000,000 cars and filling the online tracks with dismal cheesy races.

I hope they refine the game with poise and purpose and don't turn it into complete $$$DLC$$$ prostitution.
 
You have much more faith in PD than I. This is not what they had in mind, the games not "good enough" IMO, it's a half assed attempt to push a product out the door in time to capitalize on the holiday season.
 
Antagonist
I've been analyzing the launch, etc, and I think Sony and Kaz have accidentally (or maybe planned) stumbled upon a new grass roots strategy. Release the game in a "good enough" form, then listen to the consumers as you constantly refine and update the final version. Quite genius actually as it's the only way to fulfill the promises of a project with this much hype. So for that I give respect and I'm curious to watch the future play out.

With that aside my only worry is them adding some "cheese" factor to appease fans. This could take many forms but the one I'm most in fear of is Sony/PD offering pay-for-credits, a la EA's latest strategies. I just imagine a bunch of spoiled kids who can't drive/play worth anything, using mommies credit card to buy $20,000,000 cars and filling the online tracks with dismal cheesy races.

I hope they refine the game with poise and purpose and don't turn it into complete $$$DLC$$$ prostitution.
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So because PD releases a game that is far from finished with the majority of the cars being nothing but last gen leftovers it's considered genius.
If other companies release a game without things like shifting animations it's considered an unforgiveable offense.
Interesting.
Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely loving this game, but i don't believe it is genius in it's current unfinished and unrefined form.
 
Antagonist
I've been analyzing the launch, etc, and I think Sony and Kaz have accidentally (or maybe planned) stumbled upon a new grass roots strategy. Release the game in a "good enough" form, then listen to the consumers as you constantly refine and update the final version.
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this has been done by many other companies for quite some time now. fm3 is actually a good example. being released without shifting animations and some other things. Then deciding to add them after consumers started asking "where are the shifting animations??"

when t10 did this they were crucified among gt fans for it. now pd are Gods for doing the same thing?

Edit: woops. somebody beat me too it. my point still stands though
 
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I'm really liking the game, and that may be because I'm really into the genre of sim-racers. However, if I step back and look at the game with no bias, I see Gran Turismo 4.5 ... where's the rest of my game yo?
 
The point I was attempting was that with the extreme hype generated over the years they had to get the game out now. While they could have taken the initial sales and given us all the finger, they've decided to further refine the game and actually listen to what the consumers are asking for, and in turn ATTEMPT to patch the game into something even greater. it's a software sales model that audio production companies (pro tools,logic,etc) amongst others, have been using for a while. They listen to the folks using their products and continuously update them with new features, albeit while sometimes charging for updates. I don't think it was ever their initial marketing plan, but the way they're handling it is refreshing and somewhat genius for a huge conglomerate corporation to take such a grass roots approach. Honestly what other CEO/ Head Programmer/Designer in ANY industry is listening, communicating, and honestly trying to involve their fans/consumers in their process... Not many!

I mean come on if they release continuous patches over the next six months and refine GT5 into something even more special, you should be ecstatic. They could have easily said wait for GT6... they already have the $60-$150 you paid for the game.
 
Sorry but releasing an unfinished game and patching in features that should never have been left out is an incredibly bad idea.

What about all those people who will never play the game online? They just get left with a bad game?
 
I always tell people not "fulfilled" by the hype and disappointed in the game to go play a better one. If you don't like it, stop crying and play one you do like. Some people seem to take it personally when others don't like the game. Then you have people that are so disappointed and make it a fact in their head that this game is "not finished" and bad.

I just wish some people would just go play a racing game they like instead of crying that this one is unfinished some how...
 
How many spoiled little kids will even buy GT5? They're all playing NFS. GT5's where the men are :cool:
 
I think the game is awesome and you're all wrong, enjoy reveling in the disappointment of a 5-year hype colossus!
 
imaROBOT_
I always tell people not "fulfilled" by the hype and disappointed in the game to go play a better one. If you don't like it, stop crying and play one you do like. Some people seem to take it personally when others don't like the game. Then you have people that are so disappointed and make it a fact in their head that this game is "not finished" and bad.

I just wish some people would just go play a racing game they like instead of crying that this one is unfinished some how...
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Amen!! Testify!!

I'm not going to pretend I love everything about this game.. But it's a mile better than any other racer out right now as an overall package.

This game really got attacked by the hype monster.. People created a fantasy game in their head that will never exist, and then got annoyed when their fantasy didn't come true.

As for the OP's points.. I don't think any problems/missing features with the game right now were intentional, I think Sony decided to push it out for thanksgiving when it probably could have stayed in the oven for a few more months. Devs do have to find a good enough point though, I know firsthand that this is a really difficult thing to do.
 
imaROBOT_
Then you have people that are so disappointed and make it a fact in their head that this game is "not finished" and bad.
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Probably because it is not. They had 4 months to go to the official release date from the day they announced it. And then they missed that release date anyways, pushing the game back half a month. And despite all that time to do QA work, the game still required 2 patches within a week of the ship date, with direct promises of several more patches to be made over the next month. And there are still plenty of things wrong with it that are obviously going to be fixed with future patches.

It isn't some imaginary bitching mechanism created just to demean the game for the simple sake of whining. It is a statement of fact. There are graphical problems that weren't present in previous game builds. There are optimization problems that weren't present in previous game builds. There are features promised on the back of the game box that aren't even in the game yet, even though they were also available in previous game builds. The game is not finished. Now, I understand Sony probably put their foot down and forced PD to release the damn thing before Thanksgiving, but they also gave them nearly a third of a year of notice when that date would be.
 
Toronado
Probably because it is not. They had 4 months to go to the official release date from the day they announced it. And then they missed that release date anyways, pushing the game back half a month. And despite all that time to do QA work, the game still required 2 patches within a week of the ship date, with direct promises of several more patches to be made over the next month. And there are still plenty of things wrong with it that are obviously going to be fixed with future patches.

It isn't some imaginary bitching mechanism created just to demean the game for the simple sake of whining. It is a statement of fact. There are graphical problems that weren't present in previous game builds. There are optimization problems that weren't present in previous game builds. There are features promised on the back of the game box that aren't even in the game yet, even though they were also available in previous game builds. The game is not finished
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This is my point, you think it's a fact that the game is somehow unfinished because it's not what you wanted. About 99% of big AAA games that come out have patches during the first month of release, the patches is in no way a sign of a incomplete game.

All these "facts" you list that were in other game builds do not matter one bit. Those old/demo/beta (whatever you call it) game builds more than likely did not have every single feature that the retail release does. Old game builds do not have the full set list of cars, tracks and many other things, meaning they had more resources for those things you list.
 
imaROBOT_
I always tell people not "fulfilled" by the hype and disappointed in the game to go play a better one. If you don't like it, stop crying and play one you do like. Some people seem to take it personally when others don't like the game. Then you have people that are so disappointed and make it a fact in their head that this game is "not finished" and bad.

I just wish some people would just go play a racing game they like instead of crying that PD released a unfinished product.
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It's a fact that GT5 clearly is a non-finished product and should have never come near the shelfs in the first place.

I, for one, never believed in the massive hype they put effort into, but it still gets me thinking; what the hell they were thinking? I just cannot see past or accept the awkward content and it's many shortcomings.
 
I recommended keeping hopes low and enjoying the experience you have at hand.
I don't know jack about programming but even small patches to add a few items in ModNation Racers is rather large. hell even the patch to enable the online in GT5 was over 100 mb.
 
imaROBOT_
This is my point, you think it's a fact that the game is somehow unfinished because it's not what you wanted.
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No. The game is unfinished because it is unfinished. It is going to require several patches at this point to even get it up to the level of quality that GT5P had 3 years ago, which several members more accustomed to that game than I have attested to.

imaROBOT_
About 99% of big AAA games that come out have patches during the first month of release, the patches is in no way a sign of a incomplete game.
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Leaderboards are advertised on the back of the game box. There are no leaderboards in the game, and there may not be for quite some time. The game is therefore unfinished. Fact.

imaROBOT_
All these "facts" you list that were in other game builds do not matter one bit. Those old/demo/beta (whatever you call it) game builds more than likely did not have every single feature that the retail release does. Old game builds do not have the full set list of cars, tracks and many other things, meaning they had more resources for those things you list.
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4. Months. To. Do. QA. Work.
There is no excuse for the apparent "plan" that PD have to just fix everything after release that should have been fixed in the final two months of development.
 
Sselecta
It's a fact that GT5 clearly is a non-finished product and should have never come near the shelfs in the first place.

I, for one, never believed in the massive hype they put effort into, but it still gets me thinking; what the hell they were thinking? I just cannot see past or accept the awkward content and it's many shortcomings.
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Nope, not a fact ... only your opinion. My opinion states otherwise. I am enjoying the game for what it is. I am not looking at the shadows when driving nor do i look at the speedometer. I am also fine with grinding to earn money and online is fine ( it can be improved ). Standards are fine premiums are better. That's it, if you do not like it then the game is not for you. Simple.
 
"Enjoying the game for what it is" is a completely meaningless argument to make in relation to this topic. I can enjoy Jurassic Park Trespasser for what it is and it doesn't make the game any less unfinished. Hell, I can enjoy actual beta versions of games like the Sonic 2 Beta or the Doom Beta for what they are and they certainly aren't any more finished.
 
imaROBOT_
This is my point, you think it's a fact that the game is somehow unfinished because it's not what you wanted.
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Do you really, deep-down in your heart, consider Gran Turismo 5 being a finished product? Seriously?

It may not be what I wanted, but the game shows in many ways that it's not what they had in mind.

About 99% of big AAA games that come out have patches during the first month of release, the patches is in no way a sign of a incomplete game.
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About 99% of all those games took also less than half the time to make.

tinram
Nope, not a fact ... only your opinion. My opinion states otherwise. I am enjoying the game for what it is. I am not looking at the shadows when driving nor do i look at the speedometer. I am also fine with grinding to earn money and online is fine ( it can be improved ). Standards are fine premiums are better. That's it, if you do not like it then the game is not for you. Simple.
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''For what it is'' could have been better.

I just can't graps how GT-fans are completely fine with accepting unaccaptable flaws after all these years. No wonder why PD never bothered.
 
Sselecta
It's a fact that GT5 clearly is a non-finished product and should have never come near the shelfs in the first place.
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I think you've confused the meaning of the word fact.

It's a fact that GT5 is a finished product.
 
imaROBOT_
I always tell people not "fulfilled" by the hype and disappointed in the game to go play a better one. If you don't like it, stop crying and play one you do like. Some people seem to take it personally when others don't like the game. Then you have people that are so disappointed and make it a fact in their head that this game is "not finished" and bad.

I just wish some people would just go play a racing game they like instead of crying that this one is unfinished some how...
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This is not a "black and white" issue.
Please do not insult people's intelligence with such a simplistic viewpoint of GT5 lovers and haters. Because one proclaims love or hate for GT5 does not mean they do not take issues (lovers) or enjoy aspects (haters) of the game.
 
Sselecta
6 years and still needs a patch immediately after the release. Yeah right, convince me.
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Bad Company 2 says hello, and yes that was a finished product.

That being said, GT5 is unfinished. Clearly there was no excitement or hype from PD's part, I didn't see Kaz tweeting and stuff about how happy he was and what not. In his eyes, in our eyes, it's not complete.
 
danjama
It's a fact that GT5 is a finished product.
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"Released" # "Finished"

To name just two things: they promoted leaderboards and YouTube uploads (the latter I care about a bit, the former more than a bit) and neither exist.

It is released. It is NOT finished. Or, if it *is* "finished" (i.e. feature set won't grow), they're not shipping what they promised to ship.

And I hate those damn shadows! Replays are embarrassing to show others; first thing they notice. "Hey, I thought this was going to be the best graphics; what's happening to those shadows there?"
 
Sselecta
I just can't graps how GT-fans are completely fine with accepting unaccaptable flaws after all these years. No wonder why PD never bothered.
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This. Soooooo much this. It makes me so sad seeing people write about how GT5 is perfect, doesn't need improvement, and did everything right. Suck ups like that just encourage PD to churn out half-assed games.

What PD did is exactly what Code Master did with F1 2010. They released a game that was nowhere near complete, basically charging $60 for a beta version. You guys chewed CM apart for that. Now PD does the exact same thing and you guys think it's alright? That's completely ridiculous. If you keep this up, GT6 will be an even bigger disappointment than GT5.
 
When is any game finished now-a-days?

When it goes gold or when the dev relaeses the last patch/dlc for it?

Its hard to complain that GT5 was released "unfnished" when that is pretty much normal for games now.

The back of my GT5 case says "leaderboards". In spectator mode there are leaderboards so that is in the game. Its not GTHD, but that isn't what the case says.
 
MidianGTX
I think the game is awesome and you're all wrong, enjoy reveling in the disappointment of a 5-year hype colossus!
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The wait is over, done and past. Let's not continue to dwell on it.

GT5 is the same thing as GT3. GT3 wasn't up to GT2's level, but still great none the less.

Am I the only one who sees PD's cycle of "Groundwork" then "SHIBAM!" on the second game on the console?

Let's just hope GT6 is somewhere close. lol
 

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