Tommy Kaira ZZII vs Saleen S7

  • Thread starter Thread starter rollazn
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Originally posted by NISMOskyline
Well gee....I'm pretty sure that Tommy Kaira, one of the most legendary automotive shops in Japan, would have had the foresight to put a LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL on the car if they had wanted to make it MR. Besides, MR creates a 50-50 weight distribution, equating to LESS tractionless wheelspin.
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Ok im going to start with a limited slip differential....... limited slip differentials are not meant to prevent you from laying rubber...... their purpose is to attempt to evenly distribute, or distrube unequally torque to the outside wheel during turns making the car easier to steer and eliminating one wheel wonders. So AWD is going to be a better choice IMO. Then think about an AWD vehicle that has say 3 LSD's such as the EVO's..... Their cornering improves a great deal due to the differential trickery.

And 50/50 weight distribution is going to be better for traction than what? I think if you had a MR vehicle and you were only worried about not lighting up the rear tires in a straight line you would add weight to the rear not try to make it 50/50. The purpose of 50/50 weight distribution is to make the car hypothetically and nimble as possible....... making steering maneuvers crisper than is say an unequally balanced vehilce.
 
Fair enough, you were right on about the differentials in 4WD cars. However, a LSD is designed to put power down with all drivetrain wheels, right? Then wouldn't that reduce wheelspin during a standing launch?

BTW: I was just trying to be argumentative. After all, just look at my profile name. I love the ATTESA system, and I love Skylines.
 
The active LSD on the rear axle of the GTR aids traction by calculating the optimum torque split between the left and right rear wheels altering it between locked and free state.
 
In theory. But the S7 generates a hell of a lot of downforce. But you have no clue what the zzII has...none. Zip.
 
im sick of this one sided arguement, its time to start a real discussion.
ok from what u guys have told me AWD drivetrains have the advantage over RWD from a standing start. if the s7 and the ZZII both have identical 0-100 times (3.3 as quoted) then the AWD advantage is non existant. infact it is a disadvantage. ATTESSA system which electronically controls torque distribution front to rear wheels would minimise torque to the front driving wheels once traction is obtained, therefore making the drive shaft a useless fancy carbon fibre wieght. in this situation AWD is useless. one point s7.
when racing on the track the ATTESSA system will interfere with your driving everytime you lose traction, which is most times you need to take a corner fast . sure ATTESSA will make cornering more stble but we all know that AWD understeers way more than RWD and surely enough ATTESSA will too. two points s7.
s7 has a higher top speed and can probably produce more downforce than the ZZII making high speed racing more stable than its TK challenger. three points s7.
i have never heard of the saleen s7 but by the data contributed in this thread i opted for it over the seemingly more popular ZZII. you can say i'm always against the grain.
 
Well, it still stands that the ZZII has never been produced. The S7 is a supercar you can buy if you know where to look for them, and they are raced...yet again, unlike the ZZII. The ZZII is nothing more than a dream car that will never see true production.
 
In the 70's it was a joint effort of some japanese car companys to make a super car, searching on google right now to get some info but so far ive found nothing.

Edit: Guess it wasnt a joint effort, the company Dome made it and was owned by Minoru Hayashi.

Info + pic


dz-004.jpg
 
This is the brief story of the strange and exotic Dome Zero RL sports car that appeared at
Le Mans in 1979 and 1980.

The DOME CO. LTD was formed in Japan in 1978 by Minoru Hayashi, who was one of the
pioneers of race car construction in the country.

The word "dome" in Japanese means "child's dream" and the dream of Hayashi was to
build an all-Japanese supercar to rival Ferrari and Lamborghini. The first prototype, the
Dome Zero, was unveiled to the world at the Geneva Motor Show in 1978 causing a stir
with it's dramatic looks and superbly detailed design.

Development of the car stalled, however. Whilst Dome and the Zero prototype had
already captured the public's imagination in Japan, strict regulations meant it failed to
get the required homologation certificate from the Japanese authorities.
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Originally posted by ShobThaBob
Well, it still stands that the ZZII has never been produced. The S7 is a supercar you can buy if you know where to look for them, and they are raced...yet again, unlike the ZZII. The ZZII is nothing more than a dream car that will never see true production.
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You're right, but where did the specs of the ZZII come from (the ones in the first post?)
 
Its from Tommy Kaira itself... They tested it out.. there were a few made and sold but not that much they did test that it is 0-60=3.3s and top speed of around 210mph. Ill try to find the number of ZZII sold.
 
Originally posted by kikkoman
im sick of this one sided arguement, its time to start a real discussion.
ok from what u guys have told me AWD drivetrains have the advantage over RWD from a standing start. if the s7 and the ZZII both have identical 0-100 times (3.3 as quoted) then the AWD advantage is non existant. infact it is a disadvantage. ATTESSA system which electronically controls torque distribution front to rear wheels would minimise torque to the front driving wheels once traction is obtained, therefore making the drive shaft a useless fancy carbon fibre wieght. in this situation AWD is useless. one point s7.
when racing on the track the ATTESSA system will interfere with your driving everytime you lose traction, which is most times you need to take a corner fast . sure ATTESSA will make cornering more stble but we all know that AWD understeers way more than RWD and surely enough ATTESSA will too. two points s7.
s7 has a higher top speed and can probably produce more downforce than the ZZII making high speed racing more stable than its TK challenger. three points s7.
i have never heard of the saleen s7 but by the data contributed in this thread i opted for it over the seemingly more popular ZZII. you can say i'm always against the grain.
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AWD is not useless... heres the reason why.. The excellent exchange of six marches, was installed to produce at the same time acceleration levels next to the fastest cars of the world, as compatible final speed. To contribute with low times for acceleration, the system of integral traction (this exactly, in the four wheels) Attesa-ets, with intelligent electronic control of distribution of torque in the four wheels. Thus, the ZZII would be capable to very tracionar better that its competitors with traction only in two wheels.

Like you said with the AWD it is more stable (a point for ZZII) and it understeer mores then a RWD ( point for S7) so that is a tie, how can you give the S7 a point and not the ZZII when its more stable then the S7 in cornering? Thats unfair as i call it.

S7 has like only a few mph top speed over the ZZII, also the ZZII is AWD.

So your 3 points of the S7 is wrong IMO.
The AWD in the ZZII has its uses.
The ZZII is more stable but understeers at time. (cancel out)
S7 has a higher top speed by about 5MPH.

Anyways dont forget the ZZII get its power from a 2.7 RB27DETT, the S7 has a larger displacement.
 
only 3,3 km/h and 336 the 100 seconds are necessary to reach km/h of maximum speed, being that in less than 20 the 300 seconds already he is km/h!

Mainly had to its predicates of performance, the Tommy Kaira negotiated a partner for produziz it in England, a time that exists a restrictive legislation how much the power of the vehicles produced in Japan. Only 100 units of the ZZII would be produced, to the price of about USS 100.000,00. However, difficulties in making right a partner, as well as others of financial order, had made impracticable the car and its production. Thus, this apaixoanante super-machine was restricted to the archetypes constructed for homologation or in the maximum a simulation of that the car would be capable, through the Gran game Tourism 3, where also a unit of the "Machine of the Dreams" can be found!
 
So 100 units of ZZII was produced, or did it even get produced?

Here is the time of the S7...

Car-Stats.com Report for 2003 Saleen S7
Obtained from R&T June, 2003
0-60: 3.3 Transmission: Manual
1/4 Mile: 11.8
1/4 Speed: 120

Wouldnt you think the ZZII would get a better 1/4 time i have heard rumors of it running low 11s, but noone really knows beside probably tommy kaira
 
How do you know so much about a car that has never been produced? If the ZZII had been, there would be more road tests of it, more race versions, something. The McLarenF1 only had 75 road cars produced, and 25 race versions, and we have tons of pictures of those. The ZZII on the other hand...just a dream car.
 
Those info i got were release from Tommy Kaira the manufactor they tested the top speed and 0-100 or 0-60 then it was probably leaked or something. Since the car was never produce we dont know alot about it but there are a couple of things we know such as 0-100 and top speed.
 
rollazn, you have probably misunderstood the point i was making. true, AWD is not at all useless but in this situation (being 0-100km/h) it is entirely useless because 0-100km/h is identical for both vehicles, and S7 shows no problem with off the mark traction, thus the AWD drivetrain in the ZZII is of no use in 0-100km/h comparison.
you also mentioned that the s7 had more displacement. that is not any sort of advantage/disadvantage. this discussion is about the cars as they stand.
you also stated that the figures you obtained were 'rumours' which were sourced directly from tommy kaira and not an independant organisation. rumours are open to speculation and are not always 100% correct. these times for ZZII can be optimistic or they can be factual, no one really knows because at this point in time the ZZII does not exist in manufacturing terms.
on a final note i would like to say that i sense a bit of bias from your posts. you tend to be more in favour of ZZII than the s7. you are the person that created the poll and you of all people should be the most impartial. but in the meantime this is a very good poll with highly competitive cars. two thumbs up to you, rollazn :)
 
:lol: Thanks, well yeah i seem kinda bias even though i like the ZZII more, i still really like the S7. Those are rumors not sure if they are real or not but anyways yeah thanks
 
Kikko.. i was just thinking the S7 produce more torque so i mean its not a surprise that is have the same 0-100kmh time. I would think off the line the ZZII would get a pretty good start and maybe the S7 catches up?
 
Originally posted by OoNismoO
i would say zz, but i dont think the awd system is necessary? that would hurt its roll acceleration, or highway speeds acceleration. i mean the car could handle just as good without that awd system i would think, and without it comes less weight, so if it lost that weight i would think that the handling would be nearly identical. anyways i would like to see more performance numbers for it, and see how it does on the racetrack.
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But then again the majority of the time it would be RWD unless a traction loss was detected. If driven an R33 GTR and its so sweet throwing it into corners. You brake late, hard on the gas straight away, the tail starts to go out and you fight it with some hardass countersteer then the AWD system brings you back around, its an incredible feeling, AWD drift is one of the fastest possible driving techniques because of its late braking however its not always necessary on a billiard table smooth sweeper.
 
ZZII remains a concept for now. if produced it will be called ASL RS01. ASL is autobacs sportscar laboratory, the company owners of tommykaira. ASL currently has a smaller mid engined car called Garaiya and this also competes in GT form in Japanese GT races.
 

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