Top Gear Written Review - C6 Z06

[Elegy]

Ah, but that's the beauty of it: it has that kind of an engine without going overboard on gas consumption. There's nothing wrong with civilly correcting someone; only a flamewar about it is bad.

Competition mode ofcourse. Isnt the whole purposeof the z06 to get round a track as quickly as possible like the ultima gtr. Remember it "was developed alongside the c6r".

That is what it's meant to do (or rather, it's meant to get around any section of paved road quickly and smoothly), but keep in mind that the "competition mode" is really just smaller training wheels than normal. I kinda hope Stig goes with the driver aids completely disengaged.

 

[Young_Warrior]

But the ultima GTR has its design comprimeses too. It uses a chevy engine to name one

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Here's a question for you posters who are more familiar with Top Gear than I am. As you know from the article, the Z06 has three settings for its driver aids: fully engaged, fully disengaged, and "competition mode" (which basically splits the difference between the other two). Under which settings would the power lap be most likely taken?

I would say most likely fully disengaged.

edit: I can't remember a time, the stig didn't have them fully disengaged when there was a chance.

 

[Dave A]

Thats not a design compromise thats a common choice in the kit car world, the only compromises the GTR made for perormance were ones to make it road legal, none were made to make it comfy over speed bumps or easier to do the shopping with ect.

I'm not arguing anymore, it's a stupid argument. You don't define what a supercar is, you can have an opinion on what one SHOULD be, but you don't decide if a car is or isn't one. The Z06 and the Sagaris are both supercars.

 

[Young_Warrior]

The term "super car" is one the can be broadly
> interpreted. Many on the AW staff, too, have
> disagreements over the exact meaning of what makes a
> super car. Some feel high-performance exotic cars
> are "super cars," while others have a more
> conservative approach. But one thing that many can
> agree on is that today's premium sports cars are
> achieving astonishing levels of power and speed that
> are rivaling those seen on the most exclusive of
> automobiles. Keep in mind categorical disagreements
> include matters on what is a sports car or what is a
> muscle car.

As I posted, in my opinion these cars don't qualify as supercars because they don't fit my definition of the term. There's no argument about the performance or the value propositon, especially for the Z06.

The inaccuracies were in your statements regarding the GT3 & C5 Z06. A/C & radio were no-cost options for the GT3, i.e. it could be ordered without one or both if so desired and I know a few owners who did exactly that. As for the prior Z06, I have a number of friends that drive them quite extensively at the track. They're fast, but without mods they all suffer from heat issues after only a few aggressive laps (oil, tranny, brakes) and start to fall off the pace. I've seen it firsthand a number of times. I know you said you didn't experience these issues, but I don't know how much time you spent at the track or how hard the car was driven. For proof, visit any of the Vette chatboards or attend a local track HPDE day.

So the vette suffers from heat issues after a couple of laps dropping it off the pace. Never knew about that. Im sure someone here most have known however. Quite big news.

Quoted from the autoweek.com forums.

 

[Dave A]

I would say most likely fully disengaged.

edit: I can't remember a time, the stig didn't have them fully disengaged when there was a chance.

Spot on, given the choice, any and all driving aids get switched off for power laps.

And Young_Warrior, we really don't care anymore. If you choose to hate the Z06, hate it, but do it quietly. Stop trying to bash a car that has already had several threads of bashing and praise. I'm not a fan of the Z06 or any Corvette myself, but I think they're good cars improving with every generation. They're just not my style looks wise and don't get me exited like a TVR does. That doesn't mean I have to try and stand on a pedestal and preach to the world that they are **** via a message board.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Thats not a design compromise thats a common choice in the kit car world, the only compromises the GTR made for perormance were ones to make it road legal, none were made to make it comfy over speed bumps or easier to do the shopping with ect.

I'm not arguing anymore, it's a stupid argument. You don't define what a supercar is, you can have an opinion on what one SHOULD be, but you don't decide if a car is or isn't one. The Z06 and the Sagaris are both supercars.

Your right I dont decide but I dont see the sagaris or the Z06 supercars. No one looks at the M6 as a supercar or the porsche 911 turbo as a supercar. And when the audi R9 aka lemans concept gets realeased with its v10 lambo engine I wont see that as a super car either.

 

[Dave A]

Your right I dont decide but I dont see the sagaris or the Z06 supercars. No one looks at the M6 as a supercar or the porsche 911 turbo as a supercar. And when the audi R9 aka lemans concept gets realeased with its v10 lambo engine I wont see that as a super car either.

The 911 Turbo is classed as a supercar, the M6 is classed as a GT like the M5.

 

[Young_Warrior]

LFS I like the Z06.

I just dont see it as a super car along with the sagaris.

The 911 turbo doesnt even reach 200mph.Sorry its not a supercar.

 

[Elegy]

I agree with live4speed on the "supercar" argument-that one is way too hot for this thread.

Y_W, I do believe that that quote is referring to the previous generation Z06, the C5. Most of the tests of the new Z06 (including this review) say that the car has very little heat build-up in the brakes and such.

 

[Dave A]

The 911 turbo does 190+, the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing is a supercar, it doesn't reach 165mph. Your point about the 911 turbo is?

I'm off to bed, this argument is pointless, like I keep saying, your stating what you think it should be, but your stating it like it's a fact. It's not.

 

[Young_Warrior]

It might be the discussion is recent. It was posted in october 15th I belive. Might or might not be the current z06 its not stated. However alot of teh people on that forum are saying that the c6 z06 and cars similar to it are not supercars.

 

[Elegy]

Well, if you ask me, the term "supercar" is a personal appellation. Every single person has their own idea of what a supercar is. Some people just like to call any really, really fast ride a supercar, regardless of other characteristics. Others have an extremely narrow view of what qualifies; someone might only call cars that have an unusual body style, more than 550 or so bhp, an elegant interior to go along with the exterior, and are made in Europe by that title. There's very, very little agreement on what exactly defines a supercar, so most arguments just kinda degenerate really rapidly. It's really outside the scope of this thread, so let's not worry about it further, all right?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Wikepedia agrees with my theory.

I belive a supercar is something that is extremly fast,beautiful to look at, desirable and expensive. It also has to push the boundries of its predeccessors and be one of the fastest production cars in the world. Basically the 5-10 fastest cars in the world are supercars.

Just because supercars of 1990 did say 195mph and now say the sagaris comes along and is just as fast doesnt make the sagaris a supercar. The sagaris is 15 years younger and so as more technology available to its development when it was being designed meaning it should be faster.Supercars push boundries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supercars#2000.27s_Supercars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar#Performance_criteria

 

[Elegy]

Keep in mind that Wikipedia articles aren't written by professional writers; anyone can go in there and edit pages or create new ones at any time. Also, there's some interesting discussions going on in that article's talk page.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Really? MMmmm wikipeadia sounds quite interesting I could have some fun with that.
L4S has been viewing this page for ages now I wonder if hes writing a reply.

 

[///M-Spec]

So the vette suffers from heat issues after a couple of laps dropping it off the pace. Never knew about that. Im sure someone here most have known however. Quite big news.

Quoted from the autoweek.com forums.

Not really. There are very few street production cars that don't make cost/driveabilty compromises that cause them to have weak points when tracked.

Let's take your Porsche 911 for example.

The 996 3.4 has a hybrid semi-dry sump motor (M96) rather than a true dry sump system that keeps oil in a separate resevoir. The decision to go this route after years of true dry sump engines from Porsche is no doubt a manufactuering cost one.

But the bottom line is because the engine can experience oil starvation in sustained, high G turns (the kind a Porsche may experience on a track day event when using race-slicks), you can spend big bucks on a 911, take it to the track and kill the engine.

Other 911 owners complain about oil temperatures exceeding 250F, a coolant system that can't cope with extended track use and power losses once the engine gets too hot. The problem is serious enough that Porsche and aftermarket companies sell a kit that modifies the stock oil pan on the 3.4 to better cope with racing applications.

Not being harsh on the 911. It's just a street car, not a track car. I could name plenty of track weaknesses of the BMW M3 or Evo or whathaveyou.

My old M3 used to get oil starvation in the valve train on track/auto-x days on certain turns when I ran R-compound tires. The lifters would start tapping and the car would sound like crap. The cheap solution was to add an extra quart (8 total!) to keep the pan filled up. The right solution was to spend another $1,500 buying a dual pickup oil pan from BMW M and then installing it. And this was supposed to be "The Ultimate Driving Machine"?

Now, you could get a GT3 and most of those problems won't exist because it is track ready out of the box. But then a GT3 is 100k+


M

 

[Elegy]

And it's not really all that unexpected from the older gen Z06; look at the front end. It doesn't have quite the same amount of duct space to scoop up cooling air. That's one of the things they totally got right with this generation; making it easy to get air into the machine.

 

[niky]

We could go on and on about this... like how the brakes of Japan's "supercar", the GTR are rubbish after just one or two laps... heck, a lot of cars, super or not, can't take extended track duty.

Oh, and the thing that started this flame war? The comment that JC didn't like the fuel economy of the C6? He own's a Ford GT for chrissake... gets him like... what, 7 mpg in traffic? This is the one speedfreak reviewer I've seen who likes the H2... I'd take anything he says about fuel economy with a pinch of salt. He doesn't CARE about fuel economy.

I'm hoping and waiting for that Top Gear Z06 run myself.

 

[Elegy]

Oh, and the thing that started this flame war?

This hasn't been a flame war, merely an argument that got heated. No personal insults and other such childishness have been exchanged yet.

 

[niky]

Okay... a babble fest, then. All the same, just too many posts over one small thing.

Glad to see it didn't erupt into another Z06 vs. TVR. 👍

 

[Elegy]

I agree with you there.

 

[Danny]

The 911 turbo does 190+, the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing is a supercar, it doesn't reach 165mph. Your point about the 911 turbo is?

But that was in cotext of the time. When the 300SL was in it's heyday, 165mph was the stuff of dreams. Nowadays with advanced technology and a bucketload of horsepower (step forward, Bugatti) the supercar "bar" has been raised.

However, the bar is theoretical. There is no set measurement, therefore 200MPH is just an idealist test for supercardom set by people with idealist issues.
And besides, a supercar has to be more than just fast. Super, in my opinion, also includes look, relative practicality and comfort. Others might disagree wholly, but that's my opinion.

Just to point out, in this thread so far we've discussed-
-Z06
-TVR Sagaris
-Porsche 911
-Merc 300SL
-Ultima GTR; the practicality and uses of
-BMW M6 and M5
-Bentley as a supercar
-Top Gear
-Two Honda S2000 engines in one S2000
-People NOT CARING
and much more.

 

[Dave A]

Really? MMmmm wikipeadia sounds quite interesting I could have some fun with that.
L4S has been viewing this page for ages now I wonder if hes writing a reply.

I was offline and in bed by half 1 in the morning, I don't know why the site would show me as viewing the page. Wikepedia does not rpove anything, it's meerly people opinions, thoes people can be 6, 7 or 8 years old, they can be disruptive, they can be trouble causers, ofcourse you might get good info on there, but don't take it for granted that if it's in wikepedia it's true.

A supercar is a car that offers more than usual, now this technically doesn't have to be performance, technically a Rollys Royce is a supercar. But things arn't always done to be technically correct, so a RR is a luxury tourer or limo, an Aston Martin is more than usual, but that gets branded as a Gran Tourer since it offers comfort as well as performance.

Basically, the term supercar is interpreted these days as a car that offers more than the usual performance but at the same time doesn't try and focus on too much else like luxuries. I think you'll agree that 190+Mph is above the usualy speeds a car can reach, the average car probably hits about 160

Say you create a chart for cars perforamance with low, middle and high speed brackets, you'd have (this is an example only) low upto 140mph, medium, 141-180mph and high 181mph+, every car in the high bracket could be a supercar by the common interpretation used in the motoring press, what decides if it's a grand tourer, limo or supercar depends on the cars focus.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Ye but then nearly every single AMG once delimited is a supercar. In this day and age I believe for a supercar to be a supercar it has to have some kind of extraordinary talens which enable it to exceed speeds of 210mph. I mean there are estates out there that can do 190mph once delimited.

For me this is how I would work out what a supercar is or not. I imagine a race track. Then I imagine some really fast cars on this race track.

In this instance lets imagine;

Bugatti Veyron
A Carrera GT
Ferrari Enzo
Pagani Zonda Type F
Koeniksegger
Sagaris
Porshe 911 GT
C6 Z06
Gallardo

Ok so they then head off and start racing. The CGT Enzo Pagani and koenigsegger would all start to pull away from the rest of the field which consists of sagaris, 911 GT2, ZO6, and gallardo. This shows that they are indeed in different clasees and cannot keep up with the supercars therefore not making them supercars.

Oh and one important thing is that with supercars before they are made, the company usually says right lets build a supercar and they do. 911GT2 Gallardo z06 and sagaris were never built like that. All excepot the gallardo are just hopped up sports cars.Super sports cars.

If the Z06 is a supercar then the EVO FQ400 is a supercar and we all know that this cant be true.

 

[Danny]

Well it's super, and it is indeed a car.

 

[High-Test]

Well it's super, and it is indeed a car.

That's the most brilliant thing I've heard all morning!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

here's the chevy fan-boy!

Am I the only one who's seen a new Vette on the road & thought it was a Viper at first?
really, it's good for Chevy to finally get rid of those un-aerodynamic pop-ups, but D@mn, they ripped off the new Vipers---they even almost replicated the hood scoop! I mean, performance wise, the Z06 will beat most everything built today, but get your own design for Christ's sake!

 

[Joey D]

here's the chevy fan-boy!

Am I the only one who's seen a new Vette on the road & thought it was a Viper at first?
really, it's good for Chevy to finally get rid of those un-aerodynamic pop-ups, but D@mn, they ripped off the new Vipers---they even almost replicated the hood scoop! I mean, performance wise, the Z06 will beat most everything built today, but get your own design for Christ's sake!

No is doesn't look like the Viper at all, it looks like a a C5 and a 1/2. The ass of the car is the same as the C5, hell you know what the only thing that the C6 changed is the head lights and its stubbier.

The hood scoop is needed on the car to get air into the engine and that seemed like the logical place to put it. Also how many ways can you make a hood scoop? Honestly show me non-dragster ways to make a hood scoop that would work with the Z06's engine layout.

 

[Dave A]

Ye but then nearly every single AMG once delimited is a supercar. In this day and age I believe for a supercar to be a supercar it has to have some kind of extraordinary talens which enable it to exceed speeds of 210mph. I mean there are estates out there that can do 190mph once delimited.

For me this is how I would work out what a supercar is or not. I imagine a race track. Then I imagine some really fast cars on this race track.

In this instance lets imagine;

Bugatti Veyron
A Carrera GT
Ferrari Enzo
Pagani Zonda Type F
Koeniksegger
Sagaris
Porshe 911 GT
C6 Z06
Gallardo

Ok so they then head off and start racing. The CGT Enzo Pagani and koenigsegger would all start to pull away from the rest of the field which consists of sagaris, 911 GT2, ZO6, and gallardo. This shows that they are indeed in different clasees and cannot keep up with the supercars therefore not making them supercars.

Oh and one important thing is that with supercars before they are made, the company usually says right lets build a supercar and they do. 911GT2 Gallardo z06 and sagaris were never built like that. All excepot the gallardo are just hopped up sports cars.Super sports cars.

If the Z06 is a supercar then the EVO FQ400 is a supercar and we all know that this cant be true.

No, the Veyron would pull away l;eaving everything else behind hitting 200 mph over 10 seconds earlier than the next fastest car. Ao according to you, the Veyron is the only supercar in that bunch. As for the rest of them, the Sagais and Z06 would both be pretty close to the Pagani, round a track I'sd expect the difference to be marginal (it was on the TopGear track). Once again, your trying to make you opinion of what one should be sound like it is the definitive definition. It's not, the core definition is a car that provides more than the usual.