Top Gear Written Review - C6 Z06

[iceburns288]

I think the McLaren F1 and the F40 are THE cars under 'supercar' in the dictionary, if you know what I mean.

 

[Elegy]

Well this is why we can't have Z06 discussion, and who called this in like the 3rd or 4th post....ahem me.

What a supercar is, is all up to the people who drive them. And honestly as long as it's fast as hell who really cares?

Personally, I'm just glad this hasn't erupted into a flamewar. Though a few more comments on the article would be nice... 👍

 

[niky]

My last and only .02:

My BEEF with BEEF...

Bespoke: yes, the F40 was not Bespoke...
Exclusive: the 300SL was NOT that exclusive... and it was widely considered as one of the early "supercars"... oops... just checked... only 1,400 Gullwings produced.
Engine: Same comment as above, regards Porsche... regards Lister, regards Ferrari Daytona, SL, SLR, etc. etc...
Fasth... well, yeah, that's given.

I think live4speed has said it best... we're arguing over the definition of supercar, NOT exotic...

And yes, Blazin'... I heard you...

 

[Kent]

Suprising review there.
I was expecting more negativity.

Seem like the Z06 will be a great car, can't wait to see best motoring and top gear test it out. 👍

Regarding the fuel economy issue on Top Gear...
I never see them mention anything about the MPG in cars like the Murciellago or the Evo FQ400!

Seems like the fuel argument is more often a matter of coming up with something negative to say.

In any case, atleast they gave the GM a little respect. 👍

 

[Jay]

Yeah I would love to see BMI get their hands on it.

 

[TheCracker]

To be a "Supercar" requires the following characteristics:

-Body construction must be of a type that is completely state of the art in design, materials and construction. In the 21st century, anything less than a full carbon fiber monocoque is out.

-The interior must be finished to the highest standards of a proper road car.

- .... In other words, the car must have the ability of a top draw sports car, but still pamper the owner like a luxury car.

-The car must be built in very small numbers, in a limited production run. Supercars are not series built.

M

How does the Ferrari F40 figure in this equation? - would you not call this a supercar?

It's chassis was basically 1950's tube-frame technology - even in the late 80's this was considered a strange move.

You were lucky to get wind-up windows - the earlyest versions has perspex side windows with slidders. The dash was covered in felt, probably taken from Enzo's pin-board. The floor was bare carbon-fibre - it didn't even have rubber mats!
It certainly didn't pamper the owner like a luxury car. It wasn't even built to be a race car (although people did race them) It was built to be a show case of 40 years of Ferrari.

They set off to produce a run of 400, but ended up building them until demand stopped. 1200+ cars latter is hardly a long production run, but selling them until people stopped wanting to buy them is not a limited production run either.

As i said, give me a definition of a supercar, and i'll give you exceptions to the rule.

 

[Dave A]

I'll give you a definition, a car that provides a level of performance above what is normal, is able to offer a level of focus on other areas ie comfort, but never as a major focus like in say an Aston Martin DB9.

 

[TheCracker]

I'll give you a definition, a car that provides a level of performance above what is normal, is able to offer a level of focus on other areas ie comfort, but never as a major focus like in say an Aston Martin DB9.

By this definition, an F40, F50, Enzo, Ultima or Dauer 962 would not be classed as supercars and Clio 182 Cups, Civic type-R's, all M-series BMW's & AMG Mercs would be!

 

[Dave A]

How do you work that one out then since the F40, F50, Enzo ect all do fit in with that definition and cars like the M series BMW's and AMG Merc's offer other major focuses such as passenger space, comfort and practicality ect. Whereas a car like the F40 doesn't offer anything much in the way of confort, it offers more comfort and practicality than say a Radical SR8, hence my usig the term a level of focus on other areas, and not actually providing plenty of ect. I think you muddled up that part and the part about not having other major focuses, whereas a BMW M3 has got other major focuses, performance may still be the primary one, but theres plenty of focus on comfort and practicality still. The Civic Type-R isn't in the more performance than normal band either it's right within the normal performance band, but then would depend on how you'd categorise the bands I suppose.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I may be crazy--but I thought a supercar was a purpose-built, street legal race car....a car that was built for speed in excessive amounts...light, twitchy, fast as crap & to dam low for it's own good, a car that makes owners swerve like hell to avoid manholes to save their kidneys....I think the problem here is manufactures today are trying to make supercars that are comfortable, & crap like that. Even the Enzo has A/C....people don't actually like driving supercars much.....because they are quite uncomfortable on the street---and more people buy them if they have common features---& they're gonna make what sells.....and what we're all seeing right now is a new generation of supercars, changing the definition of the word "Supercar". A perfect example is Ferrari with the F40, then the F50, now the Enzo...slowly they're getting more & more Luxurious---adding radios & a/c & other stuff too.
I doubt we'll see many, if any Supercars built, in the truest sense of the word, because rich people don't want to drive an overheated tin-can, with a roll-cage sticking everywhere, & their women complaning that they ran over that 🤬 bump

so I'll say a new Z06 is a supercar in the new definition---along with everything else we consider a supercar
as for the old, true definition? I don't see anything other than perhaps you could consider the Veyron--because of such overwhelming speed, Plus a scorching cockpit

 

[niky]

that's the definition I most agree with. 👍 ...but then, the only supercars in the world would be kit cars!

 

[LeadSlead#2]

truthfully, I don't count kit cars...aka Ultima GTR....but like I said, it's a new generation of supercars, & the definition is changing....but to what?

 

[TheCracker]

How do you work that one out then since the F40, F50, Enzo ect all do fit in with that definition and cars like the M series BMW's and AMG Merc's offer other major focuses such as passenger space, comfort and practicality ect. Whereas a car like the F40 doesn't offer anything much in the way of confort, it offers more comfort and practicality than say a Radical SR8, hence my usig the term a level of focus on other areas, and not actually providing plenty of ect. I think you muddled up that part and the part about not having other major focuses, whereas a BMW M3 has got other major focuses, performance may still be the primary one, but theres plenty of focus on comfort and practicality still. The Civic Type-R isn't in the more performance than normal band either it's right within the normal performance band, but then would depend on how you'd categorise the bands I suppose.

I've sat in a few F40's, i can tell you, they're no more luxurious or practical than a Radical, unless you consider air-vents and windscreen wipers 'luxury items'. The reason i mentioned M3's and type-R's is because they offer greater, more focused performance over the 'cooking' versions without offering any greater levels of luxury. A Clio Cup, when compared to a Clio 1.1RT is a supercar by your definition.

truthfully, I don't count kit cars...aka Ultima GTR....but like I said, it's a new generation of supercars, & the definition is changing....but to what?

The Ultima GTR is SVA approved (ie factory built and registered) just like the Caterham - you can buy the kit and build it yourself if you wish.

 

[Dave A]

I didn't actually specify that the extra areas a supercar would include had to be luxury items, I used comfort as an example, but it's all relative. Compared to a Radical, a Ferrari F40 is a lot more comfortable, in terms of luxury, it's not a luxury car, compared to my 306 it's got nothing, compared to a Radical it's got a roof, windows and yes wipers. Your not thinking relatively enough Now onto your point about the Clio cup, thats not close to a supercar by that definition, it's not above the average performace, I didn't say above the average performance for that line of cars or that model range, I said above the average performance, that basically includes comparing that cars performance to whatever else is in production today, Impreza's, Evo's, 911's, Tuscan's, Mini One's ect. If you take into account the different perforamnce brackets avaiable today you'll find the Clio Cup is most certainly not in the upper bracket. Regarding the M3, as I said it's focused on performance sure, but again I said with performance being the only major focus, an M3 has 4 seats, pretty comf inside, decent space in the cabin and boot and the list goes on. Comfort in the M3 is a major focus of the car even if performance is the main one. Maybe major is the wrong word, for it, but I hope you understand it better now.

Your spot on about the Ultima which is only a kit car if you want it to be.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

what engine is in the Ultima GTR?

 

[Dave A]

A Chevy V8.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Bmw m5

 

[Danny]

What about it?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

that's what I thought....does Chevy build the Ultima?

 

[Young_Warrior]

that's what I thought....does Chevy build the Ultima?

Im sure you wish they did.

 

[Dave A]

that's what I thought....does Chevy build the Ultima?

No, it just uses a Chevy engine, the manufacturer is Ultima, the models are GTR, CanAm, Spyder ect.

 

[///M-Spec]

Mainly that it has to be limited production, I think limited production will meerley steer that car into the direction of exotic rarther than be a defining factor in it being a supercar or not.

Agree to disagree here.

Interior quality I dissagree with too, since an awful lof of supercars dont really have much of an interior to boast about compared to sportscars....

The F40 would certainly be an exception to this rule. And you could argue the F50, Enzo, not to mention the 959 and even the Big Mac didn't have interiors to write home about.

I would consider revising or dropping this criteria. But for every stripped bare F40, you have a nicely appointed Jaguar XJ220, Bugatti Veyron, SLR, Daytona, etc..

Finaly, body materials, I sort of agree and dissagree with your reasoning here. Supercars should certainly try to be state of the art in construction, but at the same time if somone builds a car that can lap a track like a Carrera GT but at the same time has an alluminium body and steel chassis construction ....

The Carrera GT is built on a carbon fiber monocoque. There is no steel in the chassis. The body panels may be aluminium, but I'm not sure.

I fully stand by this criteria. Supercars are always a step ahead of mainstream cars when it comes to body construction. At the very least, supercars are constructed DIFFERENTLY than mainstream cars.


M

 

[LeadSlead#2]

that was clever young warrior---unfortunatly, my point is that it is a kit car---it's someone building a custom vehicle with pre-made engine & what-not...whether you build it yourself or have them do it for you...there's also some kit-car built the exact same way with a honda 4cyl---turbo to the tune of 450hp....& that's a kit-car as well

 

[Young_Warrior]

that was clever young warrior---unfortunatly, my point is that it is a kit car---it's someone building a custom vehicle with pre-made engine & what-not...whether you build it yourself or have them do it for you...there's also some kit-car built the exact same way with a honda 4cyl---turbo to the tune of 450hp....& that's a kit-car as well

I can go there tomorrow and pick up a prebuild one if I wanted to. Its a small production company. Like when ferrari first started.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

did ferrari use somebody else's engines?

 

[Dave A]

that was clever young warrior---unfortunatly, my point is that it is a kit car---it's someone building a custom vehicle with pre-made engine & what-not...whether you build it yourself or have them do it for you...there's also some kit-car built the exact same way with a honda 4cyl---turbo to the tune of 450hp....& that's a kit-car as well

Don't Ford, Ferrari, TVR and Lamborghini build cars themselves, the pre built models are done to a set standard if you want it customised you pay extra, believe it or not, if you have the cash you can get you're very personalised Ferrari, Porsche, BMW Mercedes ect built just for you. Are they kit cars? The answer is no. As I said, you go to Ultima and see a GTR in the forcourt you like, you pay the cash and the car gets registered and it's plates ect like buying any other new car from showroom. It's built by hand, so what, so are many other cars from many other companies. A kit car is a car that comes as a kit that you assemble yourself, a factory built car is a car assembled in a factory. The Ultima GTR, CanAm and Spyder models are no less production cars than a BMW M3, unless you ask for a kit. You could in theory build your own M3 from a kit if you had the cash to order the parts and had the machinery to do the right welding ect, I'm sure if the sultan of Bruni asked BMW for an M3 kit they'd be happy to oblige.

 

[Dave A]

did ferrari use somebody else's engines?

Originally yes.

The Carrera GT is built on a carbon fiber monocoque. There is no steel in the chassis. The body panels may be aluminium, but I'm not sure.

I fully stand by this criteria. Supercars are always a step ahead of mainstream cars when it comes to body construction. At the very least, supercars are constructed DIFFERENTLY than mainstream cars.

This is where I kind of agree, you find they are produced hi-tech but IF someone designed a 260mph car that could lap the ring faster than the CGT and wasn't based on another car, but had steel in the chasses and alluminium body panels, should that stop it being called a supercar, imo no. However we both know thats very, very unlikely to happen, my argument is IF it happened how would you class that car, or would you just consider it an exeption to the rule?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

guess you can count it if you want...as for me? they oughta build their own engine or something everybody else can do it---besides chevy's suck

 

[Young_Warrior]

We came to that conclusion a long time ago my friend


Only joking please dont hurt me.

 

[Dave A]

guess you can count it if you want...as for me? they oughta build their own engine or something everybody else can do it---besides chevy's suck

This has never stopped cars like the Jaguar XJ220, Pagani Zonda, Maserati MC12, McLaren F1 and many many more from being classed as supercars, and every one of them used engines made by other manufacturers.