Torque Physics and Power Delivery Thread (The Return)

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Another and well, maybe the last "The Return" thread I'm making.

You can find the OG thread riiiiiiiiiiight here , I'm really happy with the response it received and I must say thank you for such :)

Now down to business.

Torque Physics and Power delivery. How is torque recorded into the GT physics and how can power delivery be developed better?

If you're not sure what I'm on about, let me put it simply: Torque Physics and Power Delivery is the slam in your seat and surge in power that you get when let's say you drive a car with a turbo, when an NA engine climbs onto the cam , an engine reaching its powerband, or when VVTi/VTec engages.

Here's 4 videos to show what I mean




Fast forward to about after 3:40 min


At this point in time, in the PS3 days of GT, it feels as though that the cars have a very linear powerband, the engines don't feel alive. The limited power of the PS3 could be the reason why the cars feel linear.

So if this is even looked at, you can expect more dynamic driving and cars with a lot more personality (Sound and power). You'll have the looks and personality, the meat and the 3 veg :sly:

However , I've recently started playing some of the older GTs on PS1 and PS2 and there's evidence of some sort of Torque physics and power delivery. Particularly with turbo lag and modifications surrounding it. Even with the Hachiroku though I'm still running tests on that car.

So since in GT7 and with PS4 things will be running naturally, what could PD do with something like this?

I think it's possible though since there's evidence in the past of Power Delivery and Torque Physics. I guess even now with what PD has pulled with the VGTs it seems likely.

So what do you guys think?
 
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Yeah turbos in gt6 don't feel like they are "interacting" with the engine.If you look at the boost gauages they seem to be triggered by throttle at low revs,like there is no turbo lag.
 
Yeah turbos in gt6 don't feel like they are "interacting" with the engine.If you look at the boost gauages they seem to be triggered by throttle at low revs,like there is no turbo lag.

There's no element of spooling, like the power just doesn't build up, even the quirkiness of the Twin turbo motors just isn't captured right.

Imagine the fun you'll have on track keeping the car in its powerband !
 
I already made a thread about the lack of realistic engine characteristics, specifically in turbocharged engines. It's completely unrealistic in GT6. The Nissan March I spoke about in that thread, which had all mods done including stage 3 turbo, didn't have any lag at all, turbo spooled instantly, and not only that, but it idled at 5psi, and the gauge never went into vacuum when engine braking.

We can only hope they fix this along with the countless other physics issues GT5 and 6 had, but I get the feeling PD are more interested with pretty graphics and flashy features that look good on paper and in advertisements, than actually building a good base for their simulator.
 
I already made a thread about the lack of realistic engine characteristics, specifically in turbocharged engines. It's completely unrealistic in GT6. The Nissan March I spoke about in that thread, which had all mods done including stage 3 turbo, didn't have any lag at all, turbo spooled instantly, and not only that, but it idled at 5psi, and the gauge never went into vacuum when engine braking.

We can only hope they fix this along with the countless other physics issues GT5 and 6 had, but I get the feeling PD are more interested with pretty graphics and flashy features that look good on paper and in advertisements, than actually building a good base for their simulator.

Link to this thread?
 
In GT6, PD use a measured torque curve, e.g. the kind obtained from a steady-steate dyno run. This would presumably provide an instantaneous torque value via a lookup (rpm), scaled by throttle position, and then integrated at the wheels via the tyre lookups.

I'd quite like to see an engine model that includes the dynamic factors of fueling and aspiration. They'd be partway there with the stuff they've developed for the new sound method.
 

Go check out his thread ladies and gents! Mo info, mo ideas :D

In GT6, PD use a measured torque curve, e.g. the kind obtained from a steady-steate dyno run. This would presumably provide an instantaneous torque value via a lookup (rpm), scaled by throttle position, and then integrated at the wheels via the tyre lookups.

I'd quite like to see an engine model that includes the dynamic factors of fueling and aspiration. They'd be partway there with the stuff they've developed for the new sound method.

I also thought the data obtained from doing the new sound would have its place with power delivery and torque.

Would weight be a crucial element to this though? I think it would, because torque needs weight as a measurement as far as I can remember. It's a while since I've last done science :D
 
There is definitely torque physics and power delivery already. Cars in GT6 definitely do not have linear power delivery, with the exception of cars with flat torque obviously.

Some of the sensation of the power delivery might be lost due to flat sounding sounds and fast gear changes. Watch the 1st video muted and try imagine ultra fast gear changes like in GT6 and then its quite similar to the game. The real car might go through the very top of the RPM range faster than in the game.
 
There is definitely torque physics and power delivery already. Cars in GT6 definitely do not have linear power delivery, with the exception of cars with flat torque obviously.

Some of the sensation of the power delivery might be lost due to flat sounding sounds and fast gear changes. Watch the 1st video muted and try imagine ultra fast gear changes like in GT6 and then its quite similar to the game. The real car might go through the very top of the RPM range faster than in the game.

It's there somewhat but it's just not pronounced like it should be.

Sound is part of the story but it's predominantly Physics I rate. I saw the Honda vid muted but my point still stands. i drove 2 Honda Civic Type Rs today (EK hatch and 08 Sedan) in GT6 and the Vtec just isn't there, or it's just very weak. Maybe lack of power on the PS3.

It can be bettered
 
Forza is quite infamous for the fact that cars, usually those with high amounts of power and torque, slide easily when throttle control is not monitored. While it is one of the reasons Forza gets its "arcade" reputation, to me it gives some life to the cars while not being exactly like real life.

To me, GT4 had the best (by that: most realistic) feel when it came in the power/torque department in the series. You could actually feel the car slide if you pushed it too hard on a curve.

I know that there are limitations, but I'm worried that PD might focus on the number of cars and tracks again for GT7. If Gran Turismo really claims itself as the real driving simulator, those guys over at PD really need to get their rears moving and actually work on the quality and realism on the cars rather than thinking that they're going to get away with 1000+ cars, with over half that being upscaled PS2 cars and many cars feeling like they're dead and sounding mute (well, to me they don't sound like vaccumn cleaners, trust me).
 
Torque Physics at work.




And that, Ladies and Gents is how 1.5 bar of boost should feel. Particularly in game. It's not arcadey, it's reality.
 
Sorry to double post but this had to be done.

DIRT RALLY HAS DONE IT! Torque physics! The kick of the turbo and the way the car behaves, it's prominent in this video right here:



No it's not arcadey, yes it's realistic, this is what I like to see!

Therefore it's possible in GT, it has been possible before but now it can be better! Mind you, DiRT Rally is only early access now but look at the leaps and bounds Codies has made.
 
Sorry for the triple post but it has to be mentioned

Project CARS has gotten it right. The power delivery for the cars in that game is simply insane.

Come on PD, I know you can do it :gtpflag:
 
Sorry for the triple post but it has to be mentioned

Project CARS has gotten it right. The power delivery for the cars in that game is simply insane.

Come on PD, I know you can do it :gtpflag:
Just doing this to save you from a quadruple post:

The Boss Mustang keeps pulling to one side on acceleration?
The Mustang (among others) utilizes a live rear axle with a panhard bar. Due to this suspension configuration, the car will actually pull slightly to one side under hard acceleration. To eliminate this pull, 'wedge' can be dialled in, but this is a compromise in that dialling in enough wedge to offset the pull under acceleration will typically make the car pull in the opposite direction when coasting or braking. The exact amount of the effect depends on your throttle %, gear ratio used, setup, and other stuff so it is hardly a constant effect. pCARS not only has some wedge modelled to counter this (doesn't completely remove it in lowest gears), but also dynamically determines the Roll Centre from the resulting angles.
 
For the time, Gran Turismo 2 had great turbo characteristics...



I think the sound is a bit contrived, but still enjoyable.

The inexplicable and completely strange part about GT5 and GT6 is the instant gear shifts. It's just so wrong. I genuinely don't understand why PD chose to do it that way.
 
For the time, Gran Turismo 2 had great turbo characteristics...



I think the sound is a bit contrived, but still enjoyable.

The inexplicable and completely strange part about GT5 and GT6 is the instant gear shifts. It's just so wrong. I genuinely don't understand why PD chose to do it that way.


GT1 I'm told has the best Turbo physics, you could even adjust the boost pressure if you wanted to. I'd love to try the game out but I need another memory card which is impossible to get here :banghead:

GT2 was cool from what I remember but I need to do more testing now since I know better today from my childish days :D

Sounds can go many ways though, like different Blow off valve manufacturers and compressor surge. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to capture though. Turbo spool is pretty much the same everywhere though so that's really easy to capture.

Zu tu tu tu


I think the whole drivetrain and engine model needs a whole rebuild with all these factors in mind. I remember in GT5P there was a difference in the time taken to change gears depending on what kind of transmission you had, H Pattern, flappy paddle or what have you. It was great in GT5P but I don't know why they nerfed it in the newer games.

PD can do it for the PS4 I rate. I can see how PCars managed to do it (Not turning this into a GT vs PCars p:censored:contest thread.) and I'm sure PD can also do something too especially since Kaz is raving about the PS4's power.

This will add so much fun to the driving and also. Not every car will feel the same, particularly when you modify.
 
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The main peach about GT2 and (even moreso) GT1 was that because all of the performance modifications were hard coded, it was much more common to get the power curve in a highly tuned engine that you could actually expect from a highly tuned engine.
 
Something I want to see is a better torque steer effect. If you stomp on the gas from a dead stop in a high horsepower car you have to fight the wheel to keep yourself from whipping the rear end around in a RWD car or getting pulled into a wall in a FWD car. You don't go in a neat straight line when you punch it off the line like in GT. Heck, even NFSMW had better torque steer effects than any GT.
 
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