Touring Car discussion - WTCC, BTCC etcTouring Cars 

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Can we just establish one small thing first - what rules did Citroen force the FIA to do which was to work in their favour?
 
Diehardracer
Can we just establish one small thing first - what rules did Citroen force the FIA to do which was to work in their favour?
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The whole TC1 regulations they built the car took it to an FIA meeting and said we will enter it if you change the rules to allow that.
 
Diehardracer
Can we just establish one small thing first - what rules did Citroen force the FIA to do which was to work in their favour?
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Well, firstly, they were granted access to the TC1 regs before any other manufacturer on the grid, so they were able to do a year's worth of development whilst everyone else was stuck with S2000 cars.

Other than that, they've just been allowed to develop outside the regulations (see the lever that "doesn't exist"), and the stewards have been heavily biased towards them. It really is comical.
 
I see West Coast Racing are moving to Volvo's next year in the STCC, this is a shame, I was thinking about going to Sweden next year to catch a round of the STCC, and whilst a realise they're all just SolutionF underneath, it won't be as good without a familiar car to cheer on... I quite like the Dacia's though if I'm honest!

Any Scandinavian GTPers got any advice for going to an STCC race? I was thinking Solvalla as transport would be the easiest, and I'd probably get the most out of it culturally (ie probably more drinking establishments in the area)!
 
R1600Turbo
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Why do you commit such sorcery???!!!
My favorite BTCC touring car of all time.
 
I used to be a big WTCC fan, but the inability of FIA to keep multiple factory teams and actually offer an even playing field has completely ruined it.

Best to kill it off completely and just sanction TCR as the premiere FIA touring car series in my opinion, just like FIA has gradually accepted GT3 spec as the dominant GT class. TCR looks much more evenly matched between manufacturers and has the chance to let us enjoy the racing, rather than just watching a couple of guys in the right cars win comfortably and the rest as also-rans.
 
skazz
I used to be a big WTCC fan, but the inability of FIA to keep multiple factory teams and actually offer an even playing field has completely ruined it.

Best to kill it off completely and just sanction TCR as the premiere FIA touring car series in my opinion, just like FIA has gradually accepted GT3 spec as the dominant GT class. TCR looks much more evenly matched between manufacturers and has the chance to let us enjoy the racing, rather than just watching a couple of guys in the right cars win comfortably and the rest as also-rans.
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I'll admit I find the alphabet soup of series' and regulations we have these days slightly confusing, but I'd say WTCC went downhill as part of the demise of the proper S2000 regs.
 
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I like the idea behind the WTCC, I think it's just been a little poorly executed. It, along with the TCR, is both pretty new, so it might take a few years for things to get sorted.

I like the idea of the WTCC being the fastest FWD cars, sort of like the F1 of FWD. They need to toughen the cars up a bit, and have rules which don't lead to one manufacturer dominating (not the only series with this problem), but overall, I like the format.

I hope TCR catches on more, I enjoyed watching it this year, and there were some pretty good races (Austria springs to mind). I like the idea of it being the top "production based" touring car class to go along with WTCC.

So ya, I like the two tier system, on paper. Whether it will work like it's supposed to, and also produce exciting racing...I'll give it another few seasons before I make a final judgement.
 
I'd watch WTCC if they made TC1 4WD and opened them up by another 100hp or so.
 
I think Group A leading to the early Super Touring needs to come back in some form. Standard bodyshells, no aero and big wheels. They looked fantastic, went really well and if they had a spec engine and drivetrain package, costs could be more reasonable.
 
Yeah, the whole point of WTCC-style touring cars is to offer cars which look like their road counterparts, and lower power without aero means racing is very close and plenty of panel banging can ensue.

Turning them into aggressive body kits with big power numbers doesn't actually improve the racing in my opinion.

But BTCC works great due to the number of manufacturers represented. WTCC was interesting in the period that they managed to attract three big factory teams all with a chance of winning. As soon as that stopped it lost, and the move away from S2000 just made it worse.
 
skazz
Yeah, the whole point of WTCC-style touring cars is to offer cars which look like their road counterparts, and lower power without aero means racing is very close and plenty of panel banging can ensue.

Turning them into aggressive body kits with big power numbers doesn't actually improve the racing in my opinion.

But BTCC works great due to the number of manufacturers represented. WTCC was interesting in the period that they managed to attract three big factory teams all with a chance of winning. As soon as that stopped it lost, and the move away from S2000 just made it worse.
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I have to disagree with this. To me, the point of WTCC is to have high horse power, crazy body kit, pure purpose built race cars. Lower power, low aero, production based cars is the role that TCR fills.

The point isn't necessarily about improving the wheel to wheel racing. Rather, it's about providing a series where top works teams with big budgets can duke it out on the forefront of technology.

If you eliminate that top series, the factory teams will simply move down to the next level, and "ruin" that series with their big budgets.
 
It's the Regulations that Keep BTCC close, its very hard to dominate no matter how much money you shovel into a car.

Manufacturer wise its under represented from a Factory stand point but alot of teams are running a TOCA engine with a different cars Shell maybe to try and attract factory backing??

Im still adamant WTCC should use NGTC even though FIA will Never allow it (same thing as GT3 and GTE).

@twitcher At what point was WTCC ever that?


We already have DTM for that type of Faux Touring car series.

For as long as it and the ETCC(what the WTCC developed from) existed it's basically been similar or parallel to the direction BTCC has gone(up till NGTC).
 
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Class 1 was the epitome of awesome touring cars. I think TC1 has the possibility to go from mediocre to something rather fascinating.

That being said, in its current state, I do rate WTCC as the worst international racing series currently active.
 
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If I get this right...

TC1 as used by the WTCC is an evolution of S2000
TC2 and TC2T are cars that conform to older S2000 regs used for the ETCC
NGTC as used by the BTCC is recognised by the FIA as TCN-1
TCR cars are recognised by the FIA as TCN-2, but have been known as "TC3"

?
 
mustafur
It's the Regulations that Keep BTCC close, its very hard to dominate no matter how much money you shovel into a car.

Manufacturer wise its under represented from a Factory stand point but alot of teams are running a TOCA engine with a different cars Shell maybe to try and attract factory backing??

Im still adamant WTCC should use NGTC even though FIA will Never allow it (same thing as GT3 and GTE).

@twitcher At what point was WTCC ever that?


We already have DTM for that type of Faux Touring car series.

For as long as it and the ETCC(what the WTCC developed from) existed it's basically been similar or parallel to the direction BTCC has gone(up till NGTC).
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I don't mean WTCC was that, I'm saying, that to my understanding, that is what WTCC is meant to represent going forward.
 
The Stig Farmer
Can everyone just use the same regulations and then we can have a touring car world cup, please
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I did a Kinja article on why that would be a terrible idea. It's... somewhere.

Basically, the vast amount of differing regs means that we can't have a mass over-expansion and manufacturer influx with one giant championship - similar to what has gone on with GT3 - and because of it, we'll never have the big collapses in series or regs. The last set of TC regs to do so was Super Touring, and that damn near killed everything it came into contact with - yet people still believe they were the glory days.

I want every series to have their own quirky interpretations of touring car racing. I'd much rather have several relatively healthy championships that produce some great racing, as we do now, than have a giant set of blanket regs that causes cars and budgets to spiral out of control.
 
I still love how Scandinavian teams said "no" to NGTC regs that would improve grid sizes and went for poor-mans DTM clones.
 
I think it was an act of defiance more than anything. The teams had been left so dissatisfied by mainstream regulations they simply refused to go any way but their own.

I still like the TTA cars though, even if the grid size and racing is a tad lackluster. They're a nice blend of simplicity and technology.
 
Super Touring was the glory days. Races were shown on terrestrial telly during the day and not pushed down the schedule of some third-tier digital channel and it had mainstream games made for it and it alone.
 
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