Touring Car discussion - WTCC, BTCC etcTouring Cars 

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Ardius
Early look at the new NGTC Civic:
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Is it just me who thinks that looks like a compact super tourer?
 
Reminds me of a TC2000 car.
 
So, I can't believe I missed this, but the WTCC is coming to the USA this year!?!?!

23 September - Sonoma, USA

I'm totally going! :drool:
 
WTCC is getting quite the wave of ex-BTCC drivers this year, it will be interesting to see how they all perform and how the WTCC field compares (not so much the top guys...Muller, Menu, Tarquini are obviously going to be better).
So far we've got:
James Thompson
Alex McDowall
Tom Chilton
James Nash
Tom Boardman

With STR announcing their second driver soon, which could potentially be another ex-BTCC driver.

Just a shame the WTCC is now no longer visiting two touring car nations (UK and Germany).
 
Ardius
WTCC is getting quite the wave of ex-BTCC drivers this year, it will be interesting to see how they all perform and how the WTCC field compares (not so much the top guys...Muller, Menu, Tarquini are obviously going to be better).
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I've been massively impressed by how much Rob Huff has improved recently.

When I first saw him, in some SEAT championship and then when he was in the BTCC, he just seemed to cause accidents then blame others. However, his driving in the WTCC the last couple of years has been a vast improvement. In fact, I'd like to see him win it this year.
 
prisonermonkeys
Yeah, it's a brand-new race. It was first announced back in April, thought it currently remains unkwown as to exactly which layout of Sears Point will be used.
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Shows how much I'm behind the times. And I only just stumbled upon it trying to figure out that TBA track on the V8 Supercars calendar.
 
Well qually for Monza WTCC is over... I'm disappointed that Cerqui couldn't keep a little closer to Coronel in terms of pace, I'm hoping for ROAL to be 'the best of the rest' this year (at least!). Michelisz and Weber seemed pretty close together in their 320's. Man I wish BMW would launch an F30 320 WTCC!

In terms of the front of the field, I'm glad Chevrolet didn't manage to get one on pole, it's a relief.
 
Hopefully the BMWs can surprise something... Coronel put on a good time but the rest of BMWs are way down there. Cerqui is quite off the pace!

But yes, I'm glad the Chevy didn't get the pole and it's good to see Gabriele on top.
 
Yeah good performance from Coronel,hope the front tires wont last the distance on the front wheel drive cars tomorrow and Coronel can make a podium...that would be great!!

But,its Monza,and i remember several very messy races there!


Spy.
 
Ardius
^Nash is a better driver than Chilton, even if he is less experienced.
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The Chiltons - like the Pics - appear to be one of those pay-driving family dynasties. I'm pretty sure Carlin Motorsport only exists in GP2 so that Max Chilton can race one step short of Formula 1 (he's absolutely useless).
 
I'm looking at the WTCC website, and I have to say ... I think the series is a bit of a joke. The opening races at Monza are both just nine laps in length, about 100km all up. Compare that to the opening rounss of some of the other well-known touring car series out there:
  • V8 Supercars have two 78-lap races in Adelaide, for a grand total of 500km.
  • SuperGT races over 82 laps at Okayama; 300km all up.
  • DTM has a thirty-eight lap race at Hockenheim, which is about 140km.
And all of these are mostly known as domestic series; the WTCC is a world championship. But I think the most telling thing is the WTCC's so-called support series - AutoGP was run over 14 laps at Monza; that's more than the category they were supporting!
 
prisonermonkeys
I'm looking at the WTCC website, and I have to say ... I think the series is a bit of a joke. The opening races at Monza are both just nine laps in length, about 100km all up. Compare that to the opening rounss of some of the other well-known touring car series out there...
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This, has always been a known issue for what, since the WTCC exist! At least they can borrow BTCC's concept of 3 races - each race last about half an hour in each event.

Anyway, it seems like Daryl O'Young might not be racing today because his Seat caught fire dramatically at the start of the warm up session. The marshall was pretty slow in getting the fire extingusher and they only spray on the body panel while the fire is still blazing inside the engine. If not for them to open the bonnet, perhaps spray inside the vents!
 
prisonermonkeys
I'm looking at the WTCC website, and I have to say ... I think the series is a bit of a joke. The opening races at Monza are both just nine laps in length, about 100km all up. Compare that to the opening rounss of some of the other well-known touring car series out there:
  • V8 Supercars have two 78-lap races in Adelaide, for a grand total of 500km.
  • SuperGT races over 82 laps at Okayama; 300km all up.
  • DTM has a thirty-eight lap race at Hockenheim, which is about 140km.
And all of these are mostly known as domestic series; the WTCC is a world championship. But I think the most telling thing is the WTCC's so-called support series - AutoGP was run over 14 laps at Monza; that's more than the category they were supporting!
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I think touring car races are better with fewer laps, they should adopt the BTCC race format (3 short races per round).

prisonermonkeys
The Chiltons - like the Pics - appear to be one of those pay-driving family dynasties. I'm pretty sure Carlin Motorsport only exists in GP2 so that Max Chilton can race one step short of Formula 1 (he's absolutely useless).
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Carlin is a bigger team than just GP2 but yes, Aon (who the Chiltons' Dad owns) pretty much allow them to compete.
Same applies pretty much for the Arena team in WTCC - mostly backed by Aon with a little funding from Ford.

It got to the point in BTCC where the team used team orders to allow Chilton to win races despite his teammate at the time (Tom Onslow-Cole) being in contention for the championship! They then rewarded Onslow-Cole with the sack only to hire him again later.

But, having said all that, Tom Chilton is still a pretty good and pretty fast driver. Its just James Nash is more talented.
 
Ardius
I think touring car races are better with fewer laps, they should adopt the BTCC race format (3 short races per round).
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Maybe, but I think nine laps is simply too short. Somewhere between fifteen and twenty would be a good number; 100km seems like the ideal length to me.
 
Another problem that I see is the tyre wear. Here in Monza alone, there has been a couple of punctures just before the end of the race since I first watch it in 2009. A single 20 laps race is a trouble for them. So I'm guessing that 3 races, each being 9 laps is acceptable to me. Let alone the rest of the track in the calendar.
 
prisonermonkeys
Maybe, but I think nine laps is simply too short. Somewhere between fifteen and twenty would be a good number; 100km seems like the ideal length to me.
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Agree with it being too short.

In the days pre-3 races per round, when it was just two races per round, BTCC laps per race were frequantly 20+. On smaller courses like Brands Hatch and Oulton Park Fosters, this was extended to 40+ laps. Then in 1998 they added pit stops for the feature race to really spice it up.

I have found the WTCC quite boring in all honesty. It's lacking in excitement, and races which are shorter than my route to work don't exactly help.

InvincibleM5
Another problem that I see is the tyre wear. Here in Monza alone, there has been a couple of punctures just before the end of the race since I first watch it in 2009. A single 20 laps race is a trouble for them. So I'm guessing that 3 races, each being 9 laps is acceptable to me. Let alone the rest of the track in the calendar.
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The 1993 Touring Car World Cup was at Monza, and they raced for 25 laps without puncture issues.

Something to do with the current regulations putting a strain on the tyres perhaps?
 
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Ardius
I think touring car races are better with fewer laps, they should adopt the BTCC race format (3 short races per round).
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I'd like two short sprint races and then one longer race with a compulsory pitstop in BBTC to be honest.

As for WTCC, If I recall correctly, as a series in its current form is built around Eurosport TV, therefore it will be based around their transmission requirements.

I'm not sure where I heard that though.
 
I personally wouldn't change a thing about the BTCC format. Pit stops often end up disrupting battles, whereas in BTCC the battle is on from start to finish, no way to hide.
 
Just out of interest because I really don't know about the £3.99 price for just a month of Eurosport action on Eurosport Player; kind of puts me off. Is there any good streaming sites out there where I can see the WTCC on Eurosport2?
 
MazdaPrice
The 1993 Touring Car World Cup was at Monza, and they raced for 25 laps without puncture issues.

Something to do with the current regulations putting a strain on the tyres perhaps?
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Maybe, but today all cars seems to held up pretty well. The FWD cars suffer from the major tyre wear but no puncture for today with an exception of Tarquini's Seat involved in an accident.

Anyway, the Race 2 is absolutely crazy. All 3 Chevys were in a crash, all spun around but guess what, they're 1, 2 and 3 on the podium! Unbelievable. We could've seen a BMW victory if Coronel didn't get held up by Micheliz. The BMWs are pretty fast today and I'm very happy with it.

However, all the 3 Chevys and Tarquini are under investigation for the crash.
 
InvincibleM5
Maybe, but today all cars seems to held up pretty well. The FWD cars suffer from the major tyre wear but no puncture for today with an exception of Tarquini's Seat involved in an accident.

Anyway, the Race 2 is absolutely crazy. All 3 Chevys were in a crash, all spun around but guess what, they're 1, 2 and 3 on the podium! Unbelievable. We could've seen a BMW victory if Coronel didn't get held up by Micheliz. The BMWs are pretty fast today and I'm very happy with it.

However, all the 3 Chevys and Tarquini are under investigation for the crash.
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Coronel and Michelisz were pretty evenly tied on speed I think, until Michelisz dropped back all of a sudden. I got the impression Coronel had no real intention of battling with the Chevys. Good effort from D'aste too.

Congrats to Yvan, but I'm hoping they (Chevrolet) get some major bad luck this year, Chevy 1-2-3's each race will get tiresome very quickly.

Edit: the BMW's didn't fair too well in the ETCC also at Monza this weekend... this from TcT:

Fulín (BMW), who ignored his drive through penalty was served the black flag on lap eight, which he still ignored, not pitting until the final lap, crossing the timing beam in the pits to be counted as second, 16 seconds behind Monje.
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From what I see, Coronel was a little bit faster than Micheliz. Coronel tried to get along him but didn't and that led to the Chevrolets getting back to them. Yeah, I think Coronel didn't have the intention to battle the Chevrolets because obviously they were faster but still the BMWs are pretty fast this weekend.

It's a shame Micheliz started to drop back after he hit a Pigeon but at least D'aste's BMW wins the Indipendent category. Congratulations to him and of course Muller for the win but I agree, all Chevrolets on the podium in every race weekend is just not good for the series. I think I'm already getting tired of it seeing their domination but it's not entirely their fault. It's the rest that should challenge the Chevrolets.
 
Race 2 was kinda awesome, dunno what's on Huff minds tho, took Menu out in the first race, nearly cause a very very bad crash on Muller, that's not good driving. Pretty cool race from Coronel. Valence should be another story.
 
I don't think Coronel had quite enough for the Chevys even though they were carrying 40K weight penalty today.
 
I think Huff braked a little too early and let Tarquini rocketted onto the back of Menu and to the back of Huff... While I have only seen the replay twice, I think I saw Huff car's brake light went on before Menu's.

The incident is still being investigated. The fault is either on Tarquini or Huff. Muller and poor Menu had nothing of it...
 
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