Toyota Discontinuing Scion Brand

  • Thread starter JR98
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Looks like Toyota will still make some extra coin selling GT86 badges for those that want to rebadge since Toyota won't sell them under that name in this country because "reasons".
 
Blitz24
http://jalopnik.com/the-scion-fr-s-will-be-called-the-toyota-fr-s-instead-o-1756954363
So someone is wrong then.
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facepalm.jpg
 
Why is anyone expecting renames anyway?

They're going to try to wind down a brand that almost exclusively sold Toyota badge jobs, that already have Toyota VINs (I believe) and already sold them in Toyota dealerships. They confirmed they are killing the one that wasn't already some other car Toyota made, so why wouldn't the extent of the changes for the 2017 model year end at just leaving Toyota badges on them instead of taking them off and putting Scion ones on?
 
Tornado
Why is anyone expecting renames anyway?

They're going to try to wind down a brand that almost exclusively sold Toyota badge jobs, that already have Toyota VINs (I believe) and already sold them in Toyota dealerships. They confirmed they are killing the one that wasn't already some other car Toyota made, so why wouldn't the extent of the changes for the 2017 model year end at just leaving Toyota badges on them instead of taking them off and putting Scion ones on?
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Toyota makes the tC, but not in this region. (Toyota Zelas). Out of the cars which may survive for longer than 2 years, I could reasonably see the FR-S being the only one.
 
Here is some data regarding annual Scion sales, and sales for all of the different models:

Annual Sales:

2003: 10,898
2004: 99,259
2005: 156,485
2006: 173,034
2007: 130,181
2008: 113,904
2009: 57,961
2010: 45,678
2011: 49,271
2012: 73,507
2013: 68,321
2014: 58,009
2015: 56,127
Total Sales: 1,092,675

So, it seems that Scion reached it's highest point in 2006. After that, they just got lower, and lower, and lower. 2009's sales were just half of 2008's for some reason. 2010 was the brand's worst year regarding sales, but the sales were a bit better in 2011. After that, they just got lower again. In thirteen years, Scion sold roughly 1.1 million cars, while in 2014, Toyota sold over ten million cars globally (just under 2.5 million in North America). Comparing the sales of Toyota and Scion, it looks as if Scions were never really strong sellers.

Sales by model:

2003-2007 xA: 98,371
2003-2007 xB: 214,586
2004-2010 tC: 319,636
2007-2015 xD: 100,727
2008-2015 xB: 178,046
2011-2015 tC: 98,599
2011- 2015 iQ: 15,695
2012-2015 FR-S: 54,313
2015 iA: 7,605
2015 iM: 5,097

The first generation tC was Scion's strongest seller at nearly a third of a million sales. In 2007 and 2008, the tC accounted for about half the brand's sales. The iQ was Scion's poorest seller at 15,695 sales over five years. In 2015, sales were only 594. Yep. That would mean Scion sold 1-2 iQ's every day in 2015. All of the Toyota/Mazda cousins sold better than the Scion counterparts.

Here is some more information if you want. These were the cars (mostly Toyotas) that carried the Scion nameplate for the US.

Scion tC: Toyota Zelas
Scion xA: Toyota ist
Scion xB (first generation): Toyota bB
Scion xB (second generation): Toyota Corolla Rumion/ Toyota Rukus
Scion xD: Toyota ist/ Toyota Urban Crusier
Scion iQ: Toyota iQ
Scion FR-S: Toyota GT-86
Scion iA: Mazda Demio/Mazda 2
Scion iM: Toyota Auris Toyota Corolla Ascent
 
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RACECAR
So they can't simply put GT in front of 86?
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They could; not sure why not...when FR-S really doesn't mean anything more than the myriad of generic and forgettable alphanumeric model designations out there.
 
Blitz24
Toyota makes the tC, but not in this region. (Toyota Zelas).
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After it already debuted as a Scion.

WeThePeople
2009's sales were just half of 2008's for some reason.
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Scion replaced the xA that no one ever wanted with the xD no one ever wanted, the jig was up on the second generation xB by the second year and sales completely collapsed and never recovered, and the tC's stripper base model Daddy's Girl College Trim was discontinued. Economy problems didn't help. Was a perfect storm, essentially.
 
Tornado
and the tC's stripper base model Daddy's Girl College Trim was discontinued.
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Now I understand why the sales were so lackluster for '09 But what I fail to understand was: why did they feel the need to remove the base package anyway? Did they think it would help them at all?
 
Tornado
that already have Toyota VINs (I believe)
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They all began with JT..., except the FR-S that uses JF... at the beginning of the VIN, and the iA, which uses a 3M... for Mazda of Mexico (and not Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing).
 
I don't think that's true. The Scion story is decently similar to Saturn, but GM dumped billions that they didn't really have into that brand before a single car was sold when cars GM sold under existing brands needed that money more. Toyota federalized a couple of Japanese cars they already made and threw together a mini-Camry coupe out of parts bin stuff and sold them in Toyota showrooms (don't think there were any dedicated Scion ones) to people who probably wouldn't be in there otherwise. It was a clever marketing excercise more than anything.


It almost immediately stopped working when they tried to get more hands on with it, but I'm guessing Toyota didn't lose any sleep over anything other than maybe the FR-S not lighting up sales charts when the closest thing to money spent is when they put a lumpy coupe body on a sedan that they already built overseas; and there was a period of time where Scion did seem to work. They sold well over half a million cars in the first four years, and I don't think it's wrong to assume that a decent chunk of those sales probably didn't come from people who would have bought a Toyota otherwise.
 
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No, but it was marketed to people who wouldn't have set foot in a Chevrolet dealership, which is barely different in practice to Toyota trying to capture a market which would similarly never consider buying Corollas or Echos.
 
Tornado
No, but it was marketed to people who wouldn't have set foot in a Chevrolet dealership, which is barely different in practice to Toyota trying to capture a market which would similarly never consider buying Corollas or Echos.
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Yup - wasn't Saturn a brand expressly created to sell American cars that weren't so... American? Was pretty much a brand designed to fight imports on level footing. Scion was Toyota acknowledging that Toyota was a bit boring for customers that weren't middle-aged-plus. Don't like Chevys or Toyotas? Buy a Saturn or Scion.

The economic crisis didn't help. But arguably, both brands lost focus. Saturn went from selling quirky plastic-rebodied versions of Chevys with a completely different look, to selling rebranded Vauxhalls. Scion went from offering affordable, quirky vehicles with low equipment levels - knowing buyers would only strip out the crap bits and install their own stuff anyway - to selecting boring vehicles from the rest of the Toyota group and making them uglier.

The message here isn't that brands like Scion and Saturn don't work; it's that big automakers get scared and start to homogenise everything, to the detriment of the reasons the companies were set up in the first place.
 
I only really remember Saturn marketing themselves as a "better sales experience" and "look, our cars don't get dents".
 
homeforsummer
...Saturn went from selling quirky plastic-rebodied versions of Chevys with a completely different look, to selling rebranded Vauxhalls.
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Worse than that -- the S-series was developed by the Saturn division and built on a separate platform with unique engines and transmissions. They were made with a purpose, and that vanished in the '00s.
 
R1600Turbo
By way of sales strategy only, since Saturn was never really marketed to young people.
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Not until later on when Saturn was terminal.

homeforsummer
Yup - wasn't Saturn a brand expressly created to sell American cars that weren't so... American? Was pretty much a brand designed to fight imports on level footing. Scion was Toyota acknowledging that Toyota was a bit boring for customers that weren't middle-aged-plus. Don't like Chevys or Toyotas? Buy a Saturn or Scion.

The economic crisis didn't help. But arguably, both brands lost focus. Saturn went from selling quirky plastic-rebodied versions of Chevys with a completely different look, to selling rebranded Vauxhalls. Scion went from offering affordable, quirky vehicles with low equipment levels - knowing buyers would only strip out the crap bits and install their own stuff anyway - to selecting boring vehicles from the rest of the Toyota group and making them uglier.

The message here isn't that brands like Scion and Saturn don't work; it's that big automakers get scared and start to homogenise everything, to the detriment of the reasons the companies were set up in the first place.
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That's the problem, it's so niche that it is always bound to fall at some point. And that's the main thing one should take away from what I'm trying to say prior. That auto manufactures always have to make everything they do linear with the rest of what they do and thus fringe or niche elements end up dying.

For me on my thoughts with Scion it wasn't a matter of how long and where will they go with this, it was more of when will it end.
 
I bought an xB in 2008...the year they switched the body style for it...still have it....it is finest car I have ever owned....gives me mini-van capability without being exactly the same sort of look....carry a 12 foot kayak on the roof for fishing out of....long and flat and low....better than a Tahoe'ish sled...Toyota quality....very pleased...sad to see them give up on the brand.....
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Not until later on when Saturn was terminal.
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IIRC, the plan was to position Saturn as the Oldsmobile replacement for quite some time. Lutz wanted to make Saturn an affordable alternative to Lexus at one point, which sounds downright insane today. Eventually the plan was to shift it to be the American arm of Opel, which oddly enough, is what ended up happening to Buick. The only youth-marketed Saturns that I can recall were the early examples of the SC, the Ion, and the Astra... Maybe the VUE, having a harder time with that one. The SL, L, Aura, and Outlook were definitely for the grown ups.
 
Wolfe
I'm more of a RWD fanboy than most, but what else does Toyota have for a sporty FWD/AWD car? Depending on where you are in the world, it's been more than 15 or 20 years since the GT-Four/All-Trac, and AWD seems to be in style more than ever before. Hell, they could make a hybrid with motors on the rear wheels. It could boost turn-in by powering the outside wheel.
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As a big Toyota and Celica fan, I would hate for Toyota to bring that iconic nameplate back as a rebadge on a sub par fwd rot box like the tC.

I think they should keep it dead and buried unless they intend on building a unique car to revive the name. Since they've gone with the 86 name for the sporty small rwd coupe, I think an awd sports coupe, to rival the STi, would be the way to bring back the Celica. If they don't do that, they should leave that name alone.

I'd love to see a new Supra, Celica, and MR2, but only if each was a brand new purpose built car. Using any of those names to rebadge any current model would be basically selling out their history. It'd be like bringing out a 2 litre two door corolla and calling it '2000GT' lol.

Edit: On Scion's demise, I couldn't care less. The only car Toyota built specifically for Scion was rubbish, and the rest were badge engineering at it's finest lol. Also, as an Aussie, we didn't get Scions, so it makes no difference here.
 
YSSMAN
IIRC, the plan was to position Saturn as the Oldsmobile replacement for quite some time. Lutz wanted to make Saturn an affordable alternative to Lexus at one point, which sounds downright insane today.
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The only part that made sense about trying to fight Lexus was that they both brands with very high owner-retention value; the owners were around 95% likely to buy something from the same brand again. (I want to say Subaru, Honda, and Porsche were up in the top 5 back in the mid-2000s.) That said, I think the brand cred wore off once GM's hired some consultants to realize that platform-sharing within its US brands was the only way to make a profit out of a once-popular brand.

I think Saturn was far more successful than Scion, especially on name recognition, but the risk by Toyota was much more minimal. The tC was due for replacement (5 years old) and it's wasteful to have two vaguely similar cars in your stable, which vary mostly by transaxle configuration...something half the buyers probably don't care about, anyhow.

Everything else just gets a Toyota badge where the similarly-shaped Scion one went. The most expensive part will be those steering wheel pad covers, although I'm guessing they already have those ready from another market.

I think the Release Series were a good idea, make 500-1000 of something in a limited edition color with a special option or two. Sometimes they looked a bit dated, or there's not much unique about a car in a that limited run, when only ten thousand, in all varieties, are sold.
 
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YSSMAN
IIRC, the plan was to position Saturn as the Oldsmobile replacement for quite some time. Lutz wanted to make Saturn an affordable alternative to Lexus at one point, which sounds downright insane today. Eventually the plan was to shift it to be the American arm of Opel, which oddly enough, is what ended up happening to Buick. The only youth-marketed Saturns that I can recall were the early examples of the SC, the Ion, and the Astra... Maybe the VUE, having a harder time with that one. The SL, L, Aura, and Outlook were definitely for the grown ups.
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The better way to describe Saturn I feel like was (since perhaps Pontiac was the more youthful version of GM) after seeing your post, is that Saturn was nothing more than a hodge podge of cars from all over GM and not something that had it's own identity. A place for more cars to be pushed out for sale, but not actual Saturn cars, and I feel the same has been done a bit with Scion. Which is why the once unique, youth driven division of Toyota wasn't selling as much.

More so brands like Fiat and Mini have picked up the mantel for what Scion was seen as by offering more fun youthful cars that can also cross age gaps. But not have the worry of seeing them watered down by their mother manufacture because they are the main manufacture. I mean mini is owned by BMW but most days they don't make it noticeable to the general public.
 
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