Toyota Petrol Hybrid LMP1 to Lemans and WEC (Its Official)

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Blaze_409, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. Blaze_409

    Blaze_409

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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  2. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Great news. Le Mans' prospects be it 2012 or the years ahead (with the return of Porsche in 2014) look promising!

    Btw, this thread is worthless without pics: :sly:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    Its great too see sportscar racing becoming more popular with manufacturers now, hopefully some good broadcasting can be made available like ALMS have for people outside America
     
  4. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    Told you half a year ago they don't provide engines this year without any special reason ;)

    Judging by the concept drawings it'll certainly out-do any car on the field in terms of looks.
     
  5. Grayfox

    Grayfox

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    If Red Bull had a Le Mans entry it may look like a X2010/X2011.

    But if this performs like the TS020 it will give audi a challenge.
     
  6. Speedster502

    Speedster502 Premium

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    Le Mans is certainly hotting up, I also heard rumours on the grapevine that Nissan are considering a factory entry too. It would make sense seeming (like Toyota - although with LMP2) they provide engines for a couple of the cars currently in ILMC/LMS.
     
  7. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    The best petrol car in 2011 LMP1 had a Honda (HPD) Engine making it go.

    HPD-ARX-01e
    [​IMG]



    And another one (probably even better) is being built:


    HPD-ARX-03a
    [​IMG]


    The ARX01 belonged to Highcroft, came second overall at Sebring and was supposed to race at Le Mans this year, but Highcroft shut down that operation. I think the car is still in a garage somewhere, was never seen again after its glorious (only) outing (sad, sad)


    The ARX03 will be delivered to Strakka Racing with the purpose to enter the full World 2012 Championship. My bet is ... he will be the best non-diesel.

    HONDA is looking, I guess.
     
  8. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    I think Oreca are building a new car too for P1, I seem to recall them saying they were looking to partner up with a manufacturer wanting to join Le Mans. More works teams has to be good for the sport.
     
  9. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    The concept drawing already makes it look better than the Pug or Audi.

    I'm really interested into who will be driving this car down the Mulsanne.

    Will the Hybrid drive train grant this car the torque to beat the diesels?
     
  10. gtone339

    gtone339

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    Oh YEAH!!! :drool::drool:

    Willing to support them next year! :tup: :)

    Peugeot & Audi, you have a new rival next year. ;)
     
  11. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    The Toyota looks a bit ugly, and in some aspects reminds me of the Lola Aston Martin, I'm a big Toyota fan but I really want to support Honda cause the ARX is coming back. Though it should have never left to begin with...
     
  12. Amac500

    Amac500

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    It was announced today (October 14, 2011) that Toyota Motorsports will return to the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2012 with a factory LMP1 effort. They also have plans to enter in several other World Endurance Championship events to compete with Peugeot and Audi for top honors. The car will be closed-top and will showcase Toyota's Hybrid technology. The teams will operate under Toyota Motorsports GmBH out of Cologne, Germany with engines from the Toyota's base in Japan. More details will be made known in the coming weeks, as intensive scheduling is planned for the 2012 preseason.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  13. GTMail

    GTMail

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    This is some of the best news I've heard in a while. Being a previous Supra Twin Turbo owner and a hardcore Toyota fan( family owns a few Toyota dealers). This is great!
     
  14. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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  15. Spacegoat

    Spacegoat Premium

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    ^Nice.

    Seriously good news, I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
     
  16. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    It actually looks weird to my eye - the front end of the car appears to be much higher than the rear. It looks like a cross between a Bentley Speed 8 and a Toyota GT-One.
     
  17. Amac500

    Amac500

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    To me the prototype chassis looks like a cross between the Audi R18 and Peugeot 908
     
  18. zedextreme8177

    zedextreme8177

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    Those headlights remind me of the X2010 :dunce:

    Anyways, I can't wait to see this beast in action :drool:
     
  19. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    Best news I've heard in a while and its about damn time. Won't be getting my expectations for a win up anytime soon, but its just great to hear Toyota will be back at Le Mans.
     
  20. bonobo4

    bonobo4

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    I hope they do well, about time they win, but I doubt they will. I reckon it'll be either Peugeot or Audi that wins (again)!

    Does anyone know what cars are confirmed to be entering, other than this one?
     
  21. Amac500

    Amac500

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    Toyota said they intended to contend for overall WEC honors with Audi and Peugeot. To show up year 1 and contend is not unheard of, didn't Toyota themselves do it in 1998? Audi podiumed their first attempt, Bentley contended, Peugeot was super fast right off the blocks in 2007. Toyota also has been supplying engines to the Swiss LMP1 teams of Rebellion Racing during this season and Rebellion has clinched the ILMC team title for the season (an award for highest non-factory team).

    However, for them to say they intend to battle with Peugeot and Audi for overall is unrealistic because they are using hybrid technology which hasn't been as competitive or shown as much speed as diesel and petrol engines. That's not to say they can't, but it won't be right out of the gates. Nobody thought diesel could win Le Mans but Audi proved the technology could in 2006, but they had already been entering for 7 years before that. So if it works it will take time.

    After their failed 2011 attempt, Aston Martin will return to Le Mans next year with a brand new prototype as a factory effort with Jota Sport AMR. Audi Sport Team Joest will return with the 24 Hours of Le Mans winning R18 and Team Peugeot Total will return with the ILMC winning 908.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2011
  22. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    already a thread of this...sorry to say it.
     
  23. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    Rumor goes that Toyota anticipated regulation changes and were developing a car to fit those regs.

    I think the diesels are gonna get a big handicap one or two years from now.
     
  24. Stavelot

    Stavelot (Banned)

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    Lol at hybrid not being competitive, you think privateer hybrid is basis for what expect for factory hybrid? :lol:

    Diesels getting 7% reduction each in restrictor and turbo pressure which cut roughly 40hp.

    No Jota AMR prototype in WEC, AMR-One is AMR-Done (scuttled after LM2011) w/ AMR likely run updated Lola-AM for ALMS 2012. Jota and AMR working out what to do over deposit for AMR-One....
     
  25. Paulie Walnuts

    Paulie Walnuts

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    Where did they say that? Not here, neither here. But of course, that must be the goal eventually.

    It's not impossible, but it's unlikely that Toyota would show up at Sebring (first race of WEC). They're probably going to miss it which is why the press release talks about entering "several" races in the WEC instead of entering full season. So at maximum they're able to race twice (Sebring (unlikely as I said) & Spa) before Le Mans. Their expectations must be very realistic and real goals in 2013 (or further, I think Toyota has come back for long-term). Peugeot needed two years to perfect things not directly related to speed of the car. And they only had to beat one team.

    This is nonsense because in all LMP racing during the past years there has been one private entry (this year at Le Mans) and one other car that never managed to even start a race.

    This is not a fact.

    There has been so many rumors but I think many of them simply lacked substance, but better sign or proof is that ACO person mentioned Toyota in some newstory months ago (kind of stupid to do that though). Also, there's a clear coincidence with the clarification of the 2012 hybrid rules (specifically: no front wheel acceleration under 120 km/h to forbid 4WD) and this announcement.

    "Handicap"... well, that's one way to put it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  26. Amac500

    Amac500

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    My mistake, the article I read was misdated. I know Aston Martin said during Le Mans they new the effort was poor but to stick with it as a 3 year plan. U haven't heard an official statement yet and I kind of thought they would return with a totally new car. I kind of don't see them staying if they are just going back to Lola because the point was pretty such a factory LMP1, and if they give up on that it seems pointless to a degree.

    I feel like the are placing to heavy of restrictions on diesel engined cars with te 2012 homologations. The fuel cell will also be reduced from 65 to 60. I do think it needed to be more even but they trashed the speed and shrunk the fuel efficentcy. They should have keept diesel the same I think, and then bumped up the engine capacity for naturally aspiring engines, perhaps alow a V10 turbo engine. If they did anything to diesel I feel like it should have been in way of gear box/ratio limitations. The engines seem to small now. I think it hurt Peugeot more then it hurts Audi because of Audi's Ultra Lightweight Technology and that the car wasn't based on straight line speed as much as efficiency and cornering. Peugeot's root was the power and straight line speed, so they will feel this more then Audi will.
     
  27. Paulie Walnuts

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    If we're talking about a factory effort where margins are small, you can't just add displacement to an existing engine. It's needs a clean sheet design and then redesigend chassis too... it's too late for such rule changes. Too late also because regulations come in 2014.

    Plus, they'd still have to tweak the restrictor sizes (and boost pressures) for all other configurations of petrol engines because in theory they should all make roughly the same power.

    Btw, there are no restrictions on the amount of cylinders but with the discplacement limited at 2.0 litres for turbocharged petrol engines, V10 is not very viable option.

    Ultra Lightweight Technology is just an ad on the car. :D I bet they both weight roughly the same which is under the minimum weight 900 kg (under because they probably want to play around with ballast placement).

    Audi uses single turbocharger and V6, Peugeot twin-turbo V8. That's going to be a bigger difference regarding the restrictor and boost pressure cuts.
     
  28. Amac500

    Amac500

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    Well then you clearly didn't read the same article I read because mine has a quote saying intended to battle for top honors. As far as hybrid technology yes I am aware there have only been a few attempts made but also to whole concept of hybrid technology being energy efficiency not overall speed, which translates poorly to racing. Infact hybrid technologies would he 100% useless in racing if not for KERs. The KERs system itself is still inconsistent due to the fact that it can not be used constantly.

    As far as the Aston Martin Jota stuff I said that I looked back and the article I read was misdated.

    As far as the rumors go I would just like to say that we already know as fact that Toyota has been working with them on it so they have been working with in the rules for a while now which does seem like an unfair advantage but I don't know that fields it was in matter as much.

    Oh I know those can't be made know but when diesel developed a clear advantage that's where I would have looked to go with it. As far as V10 I know it currently isn't viable bit for naturally aspiring engines ot should have been opened in so that it could be, you know what I mean.

    As far as Audi: Ultra Lightweighy Technology goes at first that's exactly what I thought as well. I said "but there is a minimum weight requirement of 900kg so it isn't any lighter then the Peugeot's. However I looked into and that isn't what the technology is about, but what it is truly brilliant. What it is is that the carbon fiber itself has been engineered in a totally different manner so that it is super light. In fact it is so light that you could push down on it and it will indent, just like if you were pressing down on some kind of plastic. However, the carbon fiber still holds all the same properties and strength of carbon fiber. This means that the air flowing over the car is able to shape the car more instead of being ment with resistance. The result of the air being able to influence it's own path is the ablity to adapt in different circumstances of the draft, going down the straights, and especially how it is super nimble around the corners.

    That's a great point about the turbos that hadn't occurred to me yet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2011
  29. Paulie Walnuts

    Paulie Walnuts

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    Direct quote from Toyota?

    Less fuel translates to more laps (with one pitstop) especially over the duration of 24 hours. If you were referring to F1 KERS, the LMP regulations regarding the recovery systems are a bit more free. When done properly, it should give pretty clear advantage. Of course Peugeot and Audi, but especially Peugeot since they're already dyno testing and built these demo cars, won't just watch and let Toyota do it alone...

    In other words meeting the ACO and the other manufacturers. If Toyota knows something about the regs, so do the other manufacturers and teams. In fact, leaked minutes of a manufacturer meeting held in July 2010 prove Toyota was already then involved (=at least discussing).
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  30. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

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    I think Toyota might be the underdog in the year they make their comeback.

    Peugeot and Audi are ridiculously strong, yes, but some of us know what Toyota pulled off in 1998. They entered the grid amongst giants like BMW, Mercedes and Porsche with an all-new car in an all-new class and pace-wise the TS020 dominated all of its rivals. If it weren't for their reliability issues we would've seen a dominated win by Toyota in 1998 and 1999.

    I truly believe Toyota can make a competitive car from the get go, and even though I don't outright believe in a challenge for a Le Mans win, I do think they have a chance at snatching a podium position.

    This is not just any manufacturer we are talking about, this is Toyota. Toyota and endurance racing go together like a good steak with some mustard. YUM!

    Whether they'll be actually competitive in their first year, I don't care much for. I am just glad I see the team that made me fall in love with sportscar racing with that beautiful red looking GT-One machine back into a sport where they belong.