Toyota to pull out of F1?

[Only_in_f1]

Toyota is about to pull out of Formula 1, Japanese newspaper Mainichi reports. According to the paper, the Japanese manufacturer will host a press conference on November 8th, where the decision will be made public.

Toyota is set to have an important meeting in which the future of the Formula 1 project will be discussed, and the prospects aren't good. Toyota hasn't had that craved first victory this year, although the team has made a big step forward after last season. With the manufacturer suffering badly from the current economic crisis, the millions spent in the Formula 1 project could very well be used for other issues.

If Toyota indeed pulls out, it would be bad news for rookie Kamui Kobayashi, who made a very good impression in the two races in which he replaced the injured Timo Glock. After a sixth place in Abu Dhabi, he looked set for a drive in 2010. It could also mean good news for the former BMW team, who are looking to get a spot on the grid for next year, which they could take over from Toyota.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/11/03/toyota-set-to-end-formula-1-project/

 

[The Outlaw]

Geez, I'll really be speechless if they pull out at this point. They got so close, yet so far from the bar they had set entering F1. They always seemed to have a missing link somewhere along the line...especially with the drivers IMO. Had they had a top driver they could had likely won a few races this year...but their focus was more on spending all of their money on developing the car and putting 2nd rate drivers in the car.

 

[Northstar]

Wouldn't be that surprising as there have been rumors in the air for awhile.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's been so on-again, off-again and feuuled by so many contradictory rumours and statements that I don't rightly know what to believe.

If they go, I think it will be disappointing. I believe Formula One need manufacturers just as much as it needs private teams, and striking a balance is important for the sport. Next year, we'll be down to just Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault, though I suppose Lotus sort of counts since they're racing on behalf of Proton.

I'm not so sure about Sauber getting their grid spot, though. Toyota signed the Concorde Agreement, and so have the right to sell their team. Given that they're doing so badly financially, I wouldn't be surprised if they did sell in order to make a little money in all of this, and I seriously doubt Qadbak would be amenable to purchasing two teams.

If Toyota do decide to sell the team rather than withdraw competely, I can see them staying on as an engine supplier, at least for the new team's first year. It's incredibly unlikely, but nobody wants a repeat of Honda and Brawn, at least not in Japan. They could supply engines and maintain a presence in the sport and make some money for once selling to other teams. Engine development is frozen - except for equilisation - so it's not like Toyota would be pouring resources into making better engines and only seeing a fraction of their investment returned.

 

[The Outlaw]

If they go, I think it will be disappointing. I believe Formula One need manufacturers just as much as it needs private teams, and striking a balance is important for the sport. Next year, we'll be down to just Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault, though I suppose Lotus sort of counts since they're racing on behalf of Proton.

Don't forget Mclaren (for 2011), as they are projecting to produce as many production units as Ferrari by 2012-2013 (IIRC the dates correctly). The MP4-12C being the first car to roll off their production line in early 2011, so if they can wrap up a WDC or WCC that will definitely bring that much more credibility to their road going supercars.

 

[Northstar]

Don't forget Mclaren, as they are projecting to produce as many production units as Ferrari by 2012-2013 (IIRC the dates correctly). The MP4-12C being the first car to roll off their production line later next year.

They haven't formed their own team yet though, although they are planning on it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Don't forget Mclaren (for 2011), as they are projecting to produce as many production units as Ferrari by 2012-2013 (IIRC the dates correctly). The MP4-12C being the first car to roll off their production line in early 2011, so if they can wrap up a WDC or WCC that will definitely bring that much more credibility to their road going supercars.

Yes, but in 2010, we're only going to have three-and-a-half manufacturers, and I don't even know if Lotus can reasonably be called their own manufactrer. That's down from the five we've had this season; manufacturers have made up half the grid in 2009. Next season, they'll represent a quarter of it. That's a huge drop, right there.

 

[Ardius]

Ludes, can we agree that an example season like 1989 is good, yes?

Now, count how many manufacturers were involved

We don't need manufacturers, they are good for engine supply but we don't need them as teams. The best teams in my opinion have been (with the exception of Ferrari) privateers. They are the soul of F1, not manufacturers looking to get their name seen.
Ferrari are different because they exist purely for F1 - they will never quit because its what makes their car division have some prestige. Same goes for McLaren as a manufacturer.

So, its sad to see that a team like Toyota spending all those millions got nowhere, but honestly, its good ridance from me for being a rather soulless and at times idiotic team. Too many mistakes have been made over the years (hiring R.Schumacher, sacking Gascoyne, John Howett in general) and although I am sad for the staff at Cologne, if I had to pick between Himwil or Cologne...I'll go for Himwil.

Shame for Kobayashi though, but I get the feeling he may be picked up by a new team if he really gets his head down and strike a deal with one of them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I just think that having a balance between manufacturers and privateers can only be a good thing, that's all.

And as for Kobayashi, if he's as impressive as you make him out to be (personally, I think he's a little too dangerous right now), then do you really think he's oing to be out of a job? Especially if Toyota sell the team on?

 

[The Outlaw]

They haven't formed their own team yet though, although they are planning on it.

That's a bit beyond the point. The race car is still badged pre-dominantly as a Mclaren (Mercedes only has a 40% interesest in the Mclaren group atm), as well as their future production vehicles which won't even use MB power plants. To say that Mercedes Benz will have a stake in F1 in 2011 as a manufacturer, and not Mclaren, simply can't be justified.

 

[Ardius]

I just think that having a balance between manufacturers and privateers can only be a good thing, that's all.

And as for Kobayashi, if he's as impressive as you make him out to be (personally, I think he's a little too dangerous right now), then do you really think he's oing to be out of a job? Especially if Toyota sell the team on?

Hmm, selling the team, eh? I know straight away who will be rumoured for that....seeing as he is always rumoured whenever there is any chance at all he will be involved with F1,

You don't agree 12th to 6th in a normal, dry race with a midfield car is quite impressive? I would have agreed if he only shined at Interlagos thanks to the rain, but at Abu Dhabi he showed it wasn't a fluke.

 

[The Outlaw]

Shame for Kobayashi though, but I get the feeling he may be picked up by a new team if he really gets his head down and strike a deal with one of them.

Because if not he'll be stuck working at his father's Sushi restaurant making Kobaysushi for many years to come. jk

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Wow, that's really bad news if indeed true. F1 without Kobayashi will be boring IMO ...that guy really grew on me already

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Hmm, selling the team, eh? I know straight away who will be rumoured for that....seeing as he is always rumoured whenever there is any chance at all he will be involved with F1,

Hmmm, Dave Richards? Or Zoran Stefanovic, the only man who could make them worse?

Actually, if the stories that Prodrive will run a MINI Crossover in the WRC next season have any substance to them, it's unlikely Prodrive will take to the 2010 grid, especiallyif they continue their Le Mans campaigns.

Shortly after the Brazilian Grand Prix there were reports that someone - a guy connected to Russian telecom conglomerate MegaFon and a German investor - was looking to buy one of the teams. Bernie Ecclestone said he'd spoken with the Russian in particular, but didn't know of any teams up for sale. At the time, they were most commonly associated with Renault, allowing the team to withdraw discreetly after the Singapore investigations, but stay on as an engine supplier. If they're still interested and Toyota are indeed withdrawing (there have been so many rumours over the years that I'm taking this with a grain of salt until Toyota announce it), then they could be potential buyers.

You don't agree 12th to 6th in a normal, dry race with a midfield car is quite impressive? I would have agreed if he only shined at Interlagos thanks to the rain, but at Abu Dhabi he showed it wasn't a fluke.

I agree that it was impressive, but I can also see how Toyota made a one-stop strategy work.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kobayashi is talented. But I also think that he needs a few more races to his credit before we can really judge him. After all, two starts isn't much. My issue stems more from the fact that suddenly everybody cares about Toyota now that Kobayashi is there, and they'd all be heartbroken if the team withdrew. If they said they wer eon the way out a month ago, no-one would bat an eyelid.

I kind of implied this in my last post, but I don't think you picked up on it: if Kobayashi is really as talented as everyone makes him out to be - and they could be right, of course - then do you really think he's going to be out of a drive next season? Because there's a whole lot of drives still undecided for 2010, and at least seven seats that will have to be filled even after the current teams all have drivers. There's plenty of opportunities for him.

 

[The Outlaw]

My issue stems more from the fact that suddenly everybody cares about Toyota now that Kobayashi is there, and they'd all be heartbroken if the team withdrew. If they said they wer eon the way out a month ago, no-one would bat an eyelid.

Well you're definitely not speaking for me 👎

 

[nissan tuner]

So this would leave a space open for Qadbak Sauber, right?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So this would leave a space open for Qadbak Sauber, right?

Only if Toyota leave outright. As they signed the Concorde Agreement, they have the right to sell the team if they wish, though some - like Joe Saward (personally, I can't stand him; I find he tends to believe everything he hears) - are reporting that there won't be a sale at all and the team will be shut down. Qadbak will only get Toyota's grid slot if that happens, though the FIA is said to be trying to work with the teams to find a way to let Sauber in as a fourteenth team. McLaren have said they'll support fourteen if Sauber is guaranteed to be that extra entry, but Williams are stil having none of it.

 

[mPWRD]

Wow, that's really bad news if indeed true. F1 without Kobayashi will be boring IMO ...that guy really grew on me already

Ehh... he'll find somewhere to go. He impressed enough people to the point where he will probably find a ride for next year. His driving style is aggresive, but not as aggressive as Sato's. As long as he doesn't make his engine go nova every race, he'll have a seat next year, maybe with one of the new teams.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It's official now, unfortunately. 👎

Toyota has become the third major car manufacturer to pull out of Formula One in the space of twelve months. With word of the exit having circulated already, confirmation of the Japanese marque's decision came on Wednesday; the news does, however, mean that there is now space on the grid for the Qadbak-owned Sauber outfit.

With Honda having pulled the plug on its F1 project last December and the same news coming from BMW in July, the latter's Hinwil-based team now looks to have secured a position on the 2010 grid after Toyota's announcement arrived.

Having moved out of rallying at the end of the last decade to concentrate on its F1 plan, the Cologne-based team first moved onto the grid in 2002 with Mika Salo and Allan McNish as the driver line-up. Despite its significant budget, no podium result would come until the Malaysian Grand Prix of 2005, courtesy of Jarno Trulli, who followed up on the success to grab pole position at Indianapolis the same year.

Along with Brawn and Williams, Toyota looked to have finally succeeded in gaining an advantage over the rest of the field by being an early developer of a revolutionary double diffuser this season, although the red and white cars eventually fell back into the midfield as the likes of McLaren and Ferrari became stronger.

Toyota's declaration this week underlines the ever-present economic issues of the sport following teams' refusal to support a budget cap earlier in the year.

Source: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/11/04/official-toyota-leaves-formula-one/

 

[the_fatadder]

I think the only surprise here is that its taken so long for them to go.... Given the amount of money they chucked at the sport (Toyota widely were though to have the biggest budget on the paddock), they never exactly achieved anything.

Of course my sympathy goes to the (many) Engineers that were part of the team, hopefully the new teams will snap up a bunch of them, Hopefully Kobayashi manages to get a drive with someone next year...
Cant exactly see anyone buying the team, so looks like Sauber will be making it to the grid after all.

Again as with Honda the timing does look a little off, Much like Honda and pulling out when they had a great car built, with Kobayashi the team might finally have a home driver who will be good enough to make an impact (and the press at least have been going on for so long about how important it was for Toyota to have a Japanese driver...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Cant exactly see anyone buying the team, so looks like Sauber will be making it to the grid after all.

Why, because Toyota sucked? If someone buys it, it won't be Toyota running the team. A regime change could be exactly what the team needs to succeed.

 

[Touring Mars]

It certainly worked with Honda/Brawn...

 

[Danny]

Although they did have substantial help from a rear diffuser...

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

To be honest, if Toyota pulls out I will actually cry.👎👎

 

[Touring Mars]

Better get your hanky out, because they already have...

 

[TAFKADY]

To be honest, if Toyota pulls out I will actually cry.👎👎

Sure it's sad to lose one more team, but if they drop F1 in favor of Le Mans (which is uncertain as of now) I'd be more than enthusiastic.

 

[Ardius]

Hmmm, Dave Richards? Or Zoran Stefanovic, the only man who could make them worse?

Actually, if the stories that Prodrive will run a MINI Crossover in the WRC next season have any substance to them, it's unlikely Prodrive will take to the 2010 grid, especiallyif they continue their Le Mans campaigns.

Shortly after the Brazilian Grand Prix there were reports that someone - a guy connected to Russian telecom conglomerate MegaFon and a German investor - was looking to buy one of the teams. Bernie Ecclestone said he'd spoken with the Russian in particular, but didn't know of any teams up for sale. At the time, they were most commonly associated with Renault, allowing the team to withdraw discreetly after the Singapore investigations, but stay on as an engine supplier. If they're still interested and Toyota are indeed withdrawing (there have been so many rumours over the years that I'm taking this with a grain of salt until Toyota announce it), then they could be potential buyers.

I agree that it was impressive, but I can also see how Toyota made a one-stop strategy work.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kobayashi is talented. But I also think that he needs a few more races to his credit before we can really judge him. After all, two starts isn't much. My issue stems more from the fact that suddenly everybody cares about Toyota now that Kobayashi is there, and they'd all be heartbroken if the team withdrew. If they said they wer eon the way out a month ago, no-one would bat an eyelid.

I kind of implied this in my last post, but I don't think you picked up on it: if Kobayashi is really as talented as everyone makes him out to be - and they could be right, of course - then do you really think he's going to be out of a drive next season? Because there's a whole lot of drives still undecided for 2010, and at least seven seats that will have to be filled even after the current teams all have drivers. There's plenty of opportunities for him.

Yeah I meant David Richards - pretty much anything that he could possibly buy, takeover, run or whatever he ends up linked with. I remember during the crashgate affair someone even said he'd been "seen at Enstone" leading to rumours of being hired at Renault or taking the team over. It won't surprise me to see someone link him to Toyota....

And I see you agree with me about Kobayashi anyway - I was making the point that he should have a good chance for a drive, but its a shame if he doesn't just because of Toyota pulling out. I don't know where you read anyone saying he was the next Schumacher and suddenly people are becoming Toyota fans

I was always watching Toyota because they were the most revealing of all the teams - you could always see why things went wrong and they serve as a perfect example of how not to run a manufacturer-backed team. So many mistakes over the years, the main one being sacking Mike Gascoyne.

And no Brawn-type success for next year because as far as we know, they didn't hire Ross Brawn, they haven't spent ludicrous money on 3 different wind tunnel solutions and they don't have a Super Aguri man to hire.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Sad to see Toyota go. I always wanted to see some average joe car manufacturer take it to the traditional, exclusive club of F1 teams. Odd thing that they would be looking for a driver when they suddenly decide not to run a team next year; I mean how much thought are they really placing into their decisions?

 

[Ardius]

Sad to see Toyota go. I always wanted to see some average joe car manufacturer take it to the traditional, exclusive club of F1 teams. Odd thing that they would be looking for a driver when they suddenly decide not to run a team next year; I mean how much thought are they really placing into their decisions?

The team were looking for drivers, not the manufacturer . Even though these are "factory" teams, they are still seperate entities. This is the problem with factory teams, their decisions can be completely thrown out the window when the manufacturer's board decide its not worth it anymore when it comes to deciding budgets at the end of the year.

 

[Appie]

Too bad Toyota is pulling out, but it was bound to happen anyway. Just hope we can see some Toyota F1 cars in GT5 .