Track widening issue

  • Thread starter JJ72
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JJ72

JJ72

1,328
This seem to be a big issue for a lot of people before launch, now the game is here, is there a common verdict on whether the track has been artificially widened???

I have yet played all tracks (have yet play bathrust as well) but all the other tracks are normal in width, Ebisu is pretty spot on compare to what I see on hot version as well (and it does feel REALLY narrow). Brands is right, Donnington is right.

Personally I think this is just an illusion created by the FOV, thoughts?
 
Surprisingly, tracks seem to be about right. Haven't played them all but they are prtty close to the real thing. Now the way they look is far from how the real tracks look, but width seems to be better than expected.
 
CarreraGT
Bathurst is wider than real life
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I believe that on the staring line it should be able to hold about four to five V8 Super cars on the track.

Bathurststart.jpg
 
Imari
You've got the game now. Prove it.
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Not my video, but watch these two back to back. It's most noticeable through the cutting, across the top of the mountain and through the Dipper all the way to Forrests' Elbow.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, just pointing out the obvious :)



 
CarreraGT
I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, just pointing out the obvious :)
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Agree.

Also, anyone who have a dusty TOCA Race Driver 3 (also known as DTM Race Driver or V8 Supercars Race Driver) should take a drive around Bathurst.

Maybe they didn't "use a CAD data" or "supply the finished track to authorities for approval" but damn me if this is not the realistic virtualization of Bathurst configuration:

 
Spagetti69
Amar have you the Xbox version yet?
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No, I didn't :(

Whole shipment is late to Croatia, I'm doing my best to get the PS3 from the customs today and have no idea when X360 game will arrive.

I hope I'll be able to test PS3 on both G25/GT2 late today and post impressions.
 
If i not bad recall, in forza series the developers claim that they wide the circuits for online use.

Ps. Race Driver 3 what a game!!
 
amar212
No, I didn't :(

Whole shipment is late to Croatia, I'm doing my best to get the PS3 from the customs today and have no idea when X360 game will arrive.

I hope I'll be able to test PS3 on both G25/GT2 late today and post impressions.
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Ok Amar. Dont stress out.
 
pay2021
If i not bad recall, in forza series the developers claim that they wide the circuits for online use.

Ps. Race Driver 3 what a game!!
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I reckon, that video reminds me how much I loved that game when it came out. I spent so much time lapping Bathurst it's ridiculous...
 
CarreraGT
Not my video, but watch these two back to back. It's most noticeable through the cutting, across the top of the mountain and through the Dipper all the way to Forrests' Elbow.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, just pointing out the obvious :)
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Not the videos again...

Get a car. Something nice and square preferably, maybe a Skyline. Look up the listed width for it on the 'net.

Find a part of Bathurst that you can find a decent measurement for. Any sort of measurement. Failing that, get some footage where the V8s are cheek by jowl across the road and use that to judge width.

Take your Skyline/whatever to said point in the track, and use it to measure off the width. Ideally, you'd do this with half a dozen mates and you'd all park side by side, but just doing it yourself parking up and then moving over should work OK.

And there you have a solid measurement of the track, without interference from FOV or any other weirdness that may be present.

I'll do it myself when/if my own copy gets here. Could be tomorrow, could be a few days. I live in Japan but I'm ordering in an English copy so it'll take a while. But if you're seriously convinced that this is a problem, it's a pretty simple test. Should only take you ten minutes or so really. Take some photos when you do it.

Just so that we're clear, I'm not disagreeing with you. From the videos, it does look really off. But SMS isn't going to come out and admit that they fudged it unless you throw hard facts at them, instead of perceptions.
 
This thread was created because the game is now out and we can have first hand opinion from people who actually have driven the in game tracks, so no more of those video comparison please, we had way too much speculation based on videos already, nothing personal, but I hope everyone understand the purpose of this thread.

I just return home, will do some laps on bathrust later, I have driven plenty of laps on the TOCA3 model (converted to Rfactor) and that will be my benchmark.

update:

I don't think the track has been deliberately widened, however I do think a few areas are a bit off for bathrust, namely some runoffs that I don't remember to be there, the length of some section feel off a bit, but overall width seems right. The track does look a lot wider in helmet cam compare to cockpit cam, where it looks more believable, I don't find my line differ a lot from the hilly sections up till right after the cockscrew (is that the proper name?), after the twisty left and right the track feels a bit more open and longer up to the left hairpin down the backstraight.
 
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Speculation? Who's asking SMS to admit anything? The thread asked for our opinion on track widths, and those videos highlight my opinon perfectly. Obviously I'm not going to perform said experiment because I have better things to do with my time.

This is a video game, so perception is everything. I have driven Bathurst in-game and I have driven Bathurst in real life. The track in-game looks/feels too wide when you're playing, just as it looks too wide in the videos posted above. It doesn't need to be proven through childish experiments or scientific data, it's a simple observation.

Not sure what else to tell you. Toca 3 got it right, Rfactor got it right, Shift 2 did not. Not trying to start an argument, just responding to the OP. And for the record I am enjoying the game :)
 
CarreraGT
It doesn't need to be proven through childish experiments or scientific data, it's a simple observation.
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Right. Experiments are childish. Backing up your arguments is childish. Adults simply work with subjective opinions, that's much more mature.

An opinion poll of what everyone feels like does nothing to help the situation. Coming up with hard data and confronting the developer with it ensures that this never happens again.

Screw it, I'll do it myself when I get my copy. I was hoping someone might be able to help and put this to bed early, but I guess y'all would rather argue about it than have a definitive answer.
 
Whatever man, I don't want to argue, just telling it how it is. If you really want to go to the effort of sending the delelopers data or test results that they won't look at, go for it. If it means they get it right it right in the future, I'm all for it. As for backing up arguments, the issue is blindingly obvious and backed up perfectly by the videos above. If you can't see it then I guess that's a bonus for you :).

And note: All opinions are subjective... Even if the width is accurate according to "experimental results", if they look wrong that's all that matters. As I mentioned before, it all comes down to perception.
 
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^ So people want things like physics simulated accurately and don't want it to just seem right on perception, but track width is cool as long as it looks ok? The car behaviour in Shift on the track 'looks' spot on, but the feel seems to be off for a lot of people, so it's full sim right?

Unfortunately, the thing is though perception is relative. Things can be perceived very differently from one person to the next.
Bathurst does look a bit wide to me, but I want to see the results from Imari as I haven't played the game yet.
 
CarreraGT
Not sure what else to tell you. Toca 3 got it right, Rfactor got it right, Shift 2 did not. Not trying to start an argument, just responding to the OP. And for the record I am enjoying the game :)
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If you think Toca got it right than you should think Rfactor got it right also because they ported the track from Toca... so its one version versus another not two versus one ...
 
HeadsoupBob
^ So people want things like physics simulated accurately and don't want it to just seem right on perception, but track width is cool as long as it looks ok? The car behaviour in Shift on the track 'looks' spot on, but the feel seems to be off for a lot of people, so it's full sim right?

Unfortunately, the thing is though perception is relative. Things can be perceived very differently from one person to the next.
Bathurst does look a bit wide to me, but I want to see the results from Imari as I haven't played the game yet.
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It's the same thing. To perceive something as being real, it needs to look and feel real. So if a track looks too wide, it doesn't feel like the real thing. Just as if a car feels like a boat (which I've seen reference to several times), then you don't perceive it as being real.

I understand that perception is relative, especially when it comes to physics, but with track width its pretty clear cut. The track is either too wide or it isn't, but it's the same for everybody. As for the actual feeling of driving around a track, that all comes down to the physics engine and how weight, inertia and grip are communicated through FFB and visual effects.

But yes, I am going in circles a bit. I don't want to force my opinion on anyone else, I was just making an observation. Playing the game doesn't make the track seem any wider or narrower, which is why I posted the comparison videos.

By all means let us know what you think when you've had a chance to play the game. To be honest I can't understand how people could have differing opinions on something that is so black and white, but I'd be interested to see what you think :).
 
tribolik
If you think Toca got it right than you should think Rfactor got it right also because they ported the track from Toca... so its one version versus another not two versus one ...
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Haha, well that explains a lot :). I didn't realise they were one and the same. Perhaps SMS should have used the same model...
 
CarreraGT
By all means let us know what you think when you've had a chance to play the game. To be honest I can't understand how people could have differing opinions on something that is so black and white, but I'd be interested to see what you think :).
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You are the one making it confusing when your rate perception over actual dimension, it is either realistic (being physically the same) or not, it's simple.

the problem with perception is there is no golden rule, I feel it is realistic, honestly, and I also know that the simple fact of using helmet cam over cockpit cam will change that perception a lot, the track looks lot wider in helmet cam while it physically stays the same, so your "perception" isn't a reliable benchmark and I don't see why you can expect a universal verdict base on the videos alone, which have greatly differing FOV.
 
I don't understand how field of view changes the width of the track...

Anyway, the fact is... Bathurst is too wide. Not sure about the other tracks because I don't know them as well, but that's just my 2 cents. Take it as you will, do the experiments, not here to piss anyone off, just responding to the thread.

Peace out
 
CarreraGT
I don't understand how field of view changes the width of the track...

Anyway, the fact is... Bathurst is too wide. Not sure about the other tracks because I don't know them as well, but that's just my 2 cents. Take it as you will, do the experiments, not here to piss anyone off, just responding to the thread.

Peace out
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it doesn't change the width of the track, it changes how wide it looks, come on, go into the game, do two laps, one in cockpit cam and on in helmet cam, it looks a lot different.

How are you keep refering to that as fact while it is only your perception? You are basically just saying it is wide because you feel it is wide.
 
CarreraGT
^ Refer to videos on page 1 :). As I said, I have nothing against the game, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
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I will just state again (the third time) that the FOV difference in those videos alone will change how the track width is visually perceived, hence they are not good references......
 
Never mind. Forgive me for voicing my opinion. If you're so convinced they're correct then whats the point of this thread?

You can't say anything around here without getting hammered for it, and I thought the gt5 forums were bad...
 
CarreraGT
Never mind. Forgive me for voicing my opinion. If you're so convinced they're correct then whats the point of this thread?

You can't say anything around here without getting hammered for it, and I thought the gt5 forums were bad...
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Since I was the one who initially raised this issue as soon as we saw first Bathurst video months ago, I still stand by it.

I played the game yesterday, both Nordschleife and Bathurst share the same problems in configurations, not just the voiced "illusion" of widened track.

I can understand that is not the big deal for majority of players but I fail to understand why is everyone jumping on us who find that problematic? If I turn the logic button on, with accurate tracks both sides would be satisfied because we would not be unhappy, and those who don't care this way or another would not care still.

This way, we are called names and being bashed because we're one side (minority one as I can see, which is surprising really because I though racing-simulation forum would take a different overall stance about matter as this, but nevermind) that wants to put some light one one very important issue.

Not only that actual width is compromised, other problem is overall configuration in many areas on both highlighted tracks, especially on Nordschelife. Slopes and cambers of the turns have been altered and it is just not right.

What amazes me is that your comments of Bathurst have been bashed constantly, despite the fact you have obviously been on Bathurst, drove a real car on Bathurst and you have a first-hand, real-life expertise about actual configuration and overal feeling of the track. I can understand that someone could argue with me, because my perception of Bathurst comes only from watching numerous V8S races there and driving virtual recreations of it in past 15 years of the genre (from first TOCA games, V8 Supercars EA game on PC decade ago, and other respected games).

But nevermind, I agree.
 

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