Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen

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Decepticon spotted. It Motormaster!

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Probably a bad joke, but I couldn't resist.
 

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why are transformers personally choosing american cars anyway? :)
Because they landed in America?

That will have to suffice as we will ignore the success of foreign cars in the United States.
 
Because GM threw a boat load of money at Michael Bay.
Well, that's the real reson but it doesn't address the story does it? Storywise it has always been that they landed in America so of course they would see a lot of American cars.


And then we turn a blind eye to the fact that they have tried to blend in by looking like highly customized or pre-production designs. Because a concept Camaro and semi truck with flames painted on it doesn't draw my attention at all.
 
Well, the same can be said of the Decpticons with a Saleen police cruiser and an M1 Abrams tank...
 
Let lighten up the topic, shall we?





[General Humorist's warning: Must understand Youtube poop to comprehend the content seen here]
 
Well, the same can be said of the Decpticons with a Saleen police cruiser and an M1 Abrams tank...
Just supporting my points.


I do have to give the Decepticons credit for using military style craft, but staying hidden on military bases until they were ready to attack.
 
*** SPOILER-ISH VIDEO AHEAD! ***








Awesome, I think? Looks like that confirms what the Corvette Concept is up to...

*** DOUBLE SPOILER??? ***





The Volt has been on the set of TF2, its purple (ish). Is this another alt mode for the female Autobot?


There's been alot of speculation on that car with some people desperately hoping its not the new Corvette. According to Fast Lane Daily, That is the Corvette Centennial design Concept, a car made to celebrate GM's 100th Birthday this year. I'm still wondering who is that gonna be. Also, where is this place? it looks familiar.


And then we turn a blind eye to the fact that they have tried to blend in by looking like highly customized or pre-production designs. Because a concept Camaro and semi truck with flames painted on it doesn't draw my attention at all.

Seeing as there was somehow more then one Camero Concept showing up and driving around, I don't see how Bumblebee wouldn't. AS for the painted Semi truck with flames, you must not have come across one at all because there are many of these:

klaus-photo-1%5B2%5D.jpg



custom_semi_trucks2.jpg



patriotic_semi_copy.jpg



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No offence, but it blends in alot better then a multi color semi with a trailer that comes out of nowhere.
 
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Seeing as there was somehow more then one Camero Concept showing up and driving around, I don't see how Bumblebee wouldn't.
Here is the thing: Bumblebee starts out as a rundown Camaro, something you will often see. I see them daily. The girls makes a comment about why he would choose to be a POS Camaro and boom, he changes. He was undercover, not only hiding from humans but Decepticons. Suddenly he is attention getting. Bumblebee's character was always the one that checked things out. That is why he was an unimpressive car on a show where guys were Porsches and race cars. Because he often has to blend in.

Suddenly making him fancy goes against his entire job and character.

AS for the painted Semi truck with flames, you must not have come across one at all because there are many of these:

<snipped out pics to save space>

No offence, but it blends in alot better then a multi color semi with a trailer that comes out of nowhere.
Here is the thing, in the show and comics they were eventually know to the humans. I mean, they even go to a museum to learn about dinosaurs, In the movie they go out of their way to not be known about. So, by purposely being eye-catching they break the continuity, which gets back to my biggest issue of the movie.


And if you had ever paid attention to my comments on Transformers you would know that I am not one to say it is bad because it isn't the same as the show, but it is bad because it isn't in line with the plot, the continuity, or the characters. Basically, the only thing the movies share with the show and comics are names. But it missed the point and characterization. You can change everything if you don't miss the point of the story. But as that is Michael Bay's biggest weakness...
 
Here is the thing: Bumblebee starts out as a rundown Camaro, something you will often see. I see them daily. The girls makes a comment about why he would choose to be a POS Camaro and boom, he changes. He was undercover, not only hiding from humans but Decepticons. Suddenly he is attention getting. Bumblebee's character was always the one that checked things out. That is why he was an unimpressive car on a show where guys were Porsches and race cars. Because he often has to blend in.

Suddenly making him fancy goes against his entire job and character.
Yet he appeals to the humans, which to my memory was also a part of his character(even though it didn't include changing his vehicle) looking at the friendship he had with Spike and Chip.


Here is the thing, in the show and comics they were eventually know to the humans. I mean, they even go to a museum to learn about dinosaurs, In the movie they go out of their way to not be known about. So, by purposely being eye-catching they break the continuity, which gets back to my biggest issue of the movie.

So continuity is your biggest issue(seems to be everyone's number one concern with this Micheal Bay guy). But when you think about it, the series also had some notable continuity issues, one that comes to mind that still has me scratching my head is where in hell does Optimus's Trailer come from? Its not there 90% of the time, But when he turns into his vehicle mode suddenly there it is. Even in the original movie this happens, particularly the Autobot city scene where he transforms to his robot mode in the air, notice again his trailer mysteriously dissappears. And then of course comes the still unexplainable reason for some transformers transforming into items not in size relative to them.


And if you had ever paid attention to my comments on Transformers you would know that I am not one to say it is bad because it isn't the same as the show, but it is bad because it isn't in line with the plot, the continuity, or the characters. Basically, the only thing the movies share with the show and comics are names. But it missed the point and characterization. You can change everything if you don't miss the point of the story. But as that is Michael Bay's biggest weakness...

Though I don't mention at all the plot at all as I was addressing was how they blended in, I guess thats one thing I didn't understand about the original transformers and this is coming from a big transformers fan, just who everyone was, what they did and how they are like. I do agree Jazz was not what I rememeber and to be honest, I can't believe the line they gave him "Whats krackin lil B#####". Whaaat!? I already don't like that kind of speaking to begin and he talks like that? Thats the only character that I had a major problem with.
 
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Yet he appeals to the humans, which to my memory was also a part of his character(even though it didn't include changing his vehicle) looking at the friendship he had with Spike and Chip.
Considering he was mute, I felt they did a good job with this, although it stemmed more from the initial boy's love of his first car than an actual personality match.

So continuity is your biggest issue(seems to be everyone's number one concern with this Micheal Bay guy).
Have you ever seen his movies? It is fun and explosions, with little room for actual movie quality. Like Bumblebee's sudden ability to speak at the end.

But when you think about it, the series also had some notable continuity issues, one that comes to mind that still has me scratching my head is where in hell does Optimus's Trailer come from? Its not there 90% of the time, But when he turns into his vehicle mode suddenly there it is. Even in the original movie this happens, particularly the Autobot city scene where he transforms to his robot mode in the air, notice again his trailer mysteriously dissappears. And then of course comes the still unexplainable reason for some transformers transforming into items not in size relative to them.
The official term is mass shifting. Although the trailer I believe was actually supposed to just be off screen. I'll give you that the trailer was an oddity, but it was a blatant ploy from the toys. See the original Optimus Prime toy, which I had, had the trailer turn into a mobile base with spring loaded rocket launcher. Five seconds of that awesomeness and you never questioned it in the show again.

Though I don't mention at all the plot at all as I was addressing was how they blended in, I guess thats one thing I didn't understand about the original transformers and this is coming from a big transformers fan, just who everyone was, what they did and how they are like. I do agree Jazz was not what I rememeber and to be honest, I can't believe the line they gave him "Whats krackin lil B#####". Whaaat!? I already don't like that kind of speaking to begin and he talks like that? Thats the only character that I had a major problem with.
Jazz was the worst, mainly because they gave him Cliffjumper's impulsive personality, and went from a cool kind of guy to a rapper. I also felt Ironhide brandishing his guns at the humans and offering to kill the dog was a bit off. He is supposed to be the one that always thought like Optimus and agreed with Optimus.
 
Have you ever seen his movies? It is fun and explosions, with little room for actual movie quality. Like Bumblebee's sudden ability to speak at the end.

To be honest, this is the first movie(at least that I know of) directed by Bay that I've seen. I guess I'll need to see all his movies to see what everyone is talking about.


The official term is mass shifting. Although the trailer I believe was actually supposed to just be off screen. I'll give you that the trailer was an oddity, but it was a blatant ploy from the toys. See the original Optimus Prime toy, which I had, had the trailer turn into a mobile base with spring loaded rocket launcher. Five seconds of that awesomeness and you never questioned it in the show again.
If my dad still had it or if I could of had one, I probably wouldn't have either, lol . I guess since I like things within the realm of reality, things like the Mass shifting catch my eye. I just cannot comprehend how Megatron goes for what looks like a 20 foot tall robot to a Wilther PPk or Soundwave goes from a robot of about the same size to a Boombox that looks about the same size as mine.


Jazz was the worst, mainly because they gave him Cliffjumper's impulsive personality, and went from a cool kind of guy to a rapper. I also felt Ironhide brandishing his guns at the humans and offering to kill the dog was a bit off. He is supposed to be the one that always thought like Optimus and agreed with Optimus.

While I liked Jazz's design, his personality and voice has been misplaced badly. If I want to see a Gangsta robot, I'd just watch a horrible transformers dub on youtube. As for Ironhide, although it wasn't humans in the series he was always threatning to shoot, he kinda did the same thing: wanting to blow something up only to have Optimus tell not to do that. I remember in particular the episode where the Triple changers teamed up with Starscream and tryed to overthorw megatron. In this episode, Ironhide wanted to go in and go gung-ho on the Decepticons while they were disputing amongst themselves in the stadium, but again Optimus held him back. He also has often stated his desire to do so, most notibly in the original movie.
 
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To be honest, this is the first movie(at least that I know of) directed by Bay that I've seen. I guess I'll need to see all his movies to see what everyone is talking about.
Well according to Bay Pearl Harbor was about a love triangle that was interrupted by an attack by the Japanese.

If my dad still had it
I suddenly feel very old.

I guess since I like things within the realm of reality, things like the Mass shifting catch my eye. I just cannot comprehend how Megatron goes for what looks like a 20 foot tall robot to a Wilther PPk or Soundwave goes from a robot of about the same size to a Boombox that looks about the same size as mine.
Well, in ongoing generations Megatron does not turn into a handgun. I think he starts taking on forms like tanks. And that is why I had absolutely no problem with him being a Cybetronian jet. That worked.

While I liked Jazz's design, his personality and voice has been misplaced badly. If I want to see a Gangsta robot, I'd just watch a horrible transformers dub on youtube.
Agreed.


As for Ironhide, although it wasn't humans in the series he was always threatning to shoot, he kinda did the same thing: wanting to blow something up only to have Optimus tell not to do that.
Right, but that was because he was the sergeant at arms. He was Optimus' power in contrast to Jazz being Optimus' tactical side. But they all had the same moral ideals and convictions.
 
Well according to Bay Pearl Harbor was about a love triangle that was interrupted by an attack by the Japanese.

In short, he payed more attention to the Love story instead of the famous attack that everyone knows about, right?


I suddenly feel very old
lol, why is that?

Well, in ongoing generations Megatron does not turn into a handgun. I think he starts taking on forms like tanks. And that is why I had absolutely no problem with him being a Cybetronian jet. That worked.

Unfortunately, you and I are the only people that have no problem with his form as everyone else has a heart attack about him not be a Earth-born Vehicle mode or his design.
 
In short, he payed more attention to the Love story instead of the famous attack that everyone knows about, right?
Yeah. It's like this right here is the point ->.< ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor

lol, why is that?
You said your dad used to have that toy. My dad was as old as I am now when I had that toy.

Unless , you mean you had it and your dad keeps it at his house. Different story. But it sounds like you meant it was your dad's toy

Unfortunately, you and I are the only people that have no problem with his form as everyone else has a heart attack about him not be a Earth-born Vehicle mode or his design.
I will say I wish that his story would have given room for him to take on an Earth vehicle form, but as the story was it made sense. And I am going to ignore that they stole Megatron's story from Skyfire.
 
You said your dad used to have that toy. My dad was as old as I am now when I had that toy.

My dad was (still is) a huge fan of Transformers so he had collected alot of the toys and he had them around his apartment. Unfortunately, someone broke in and stole them from his apartment and he never saw them again, but he still has the pictures he took from when he had them.
 
*resident Transformers Geek steps in*

you guys should check out the Transformers Wiki...wich covers every varient and universe created utilizing Diaclone's boy-toys

Scorpinok is not a Beast Wars era character. Scorpinok it technically a G1 post-movie Masters type city class. in otherwords, he's an 86 city playset with batteries.

the "animated" version is a variant universe where the A's and D's crashed at least a century AFTER the first series. their forms are that of search and rescue equipment. Prowl is demoted to a Motorcycle (from a Jeep CJ). the show must be at least partially based on the movie, or vice versa, because the big green guy is a former piece of military equipment, and Ratchet is an old, cynical BLEEP.

old fans, like myself, were offended at first that base forms were changed. but, there are new safety restrictions in place.
1. Optimus was changed to a pete long hood to make him taller. besides, the Cab-Over configuration for a Semi is considered old fashioned.
2. Megatron's Walther PP form was removed because of the current restrictions on gun-like shapes for the safety of the kiddies starting with the post G1's, Megatron is always a battle tank form, and is now purple and/or green
3. Bumblebee was changed not only because of Product placement. Volkswagen AG will not be involved in anything REMOTELY associated with war, because VW was established by Adolf Hitler as part of his Nazi Progrom! even almost 70 years later, that man will be associated with Germany, untill all the WW2 Participants are deceased, and half of their children are dead. and of course, no Jewish Person will ever let them forget either.

unlike the rest of you guys, I took for granted that they would change everything around. everyone has their own vision and version of the Transformers, and their forms.

oh, and wheels is a 2 inch/5 CM mini from the first gen, I believe.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page is the Transformers Wikia head page covering all varients and universes.
 
*resident Transformers Geek steps in*
This'll be interesting.

Sniff
old fans, like myself, were offended at first that base forms were changed. but, there are new safety restrictions in place.
Now that you've gotten aquainted with those given the circumstances, Do you like them?


Sniff
2. Megatron's Walther PP form was removed because of the current restrictions on gun-like shapes for the safety of the kiddies starting with the post G1's, Megatron is always a battle tank form, and is now purple and/or green
Ah, I remember my dad told me of a few incidents where the toys were mistaken as real guns and it alarmed some parents. Looks like Megatron truly lived up to being a Decepticon:sly:

Sniff
]3. Bumblebee was changed not only because of Product placement. Volkswagen AG will not be involved in anything REMOTELY associated with war, because VW was established by Adolf Hitler as part of his Nazi Program! even almost 70 years later, that man will be associated with Germany, untill all the WW2 Participants are deceased, and half of their children are dead. and of course, no Jewish Person will ever let them forget either.
This also explains why Jazz wasn't a Porsche 935 and was a Pontiac Solstice instead, but what about the Movie"The Transporter" where they used an Audi A4(or was it a A5?)? You also might want to tell this to the idiots who keep wishing for Lambos and Porsches to be in the next one as they don't seem to be aware of that themselves.

Sniff
unlike the rest of you guys, I took for granted that they would change everything around. everyone has their own vision and version of the Transformers, and their forms.

I pretty much figured they were gonna get an substancial update for a live action movie. You can't really expect everything to go from point a to Point b at the drop of a hat, you have to work out what would and wouldn't work. Certain aspects in the G1 series, like the mass shifting, had to be scraped in order to make a more realistic action movie(even though this had some things questionable in reality)
 
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I pretty much figured they were gonna get an substancial update for a live action movie. You can't really expect everything to go from point a to Point b at the drop of a hat,
If you have ever read The Watchmen comic, go look at the set pictures for teh upcoming movie. Yep, purple prison jumpsuits. Why? Because that was what the source material had.

you have to work out what would and wouldn't work. Certain aspects in the G1 series, like the mass shifting, had to be scraped in order to make a more realistic action movie(even though this had some things questionable in reality)
This is my biggest issue with Hollywood. Accept a movie that involves giant transforming robots from space, but mass shifting is too unrealistic (Um, what the hell did the cube do then?). Comic movies are always guilty of this.

And that is why I think the more recent movies produced by Marvel work so well. They are fun in a comic book sort of way because they didn't over analyze what an audience can and cannot accept. I mean, in Iron Man they basically said, "Yes a guy in a cave with scraps built a powered armor suit. Accept it." If Transformers had not gone this "realism" route it would have just been more fun and some of the loopholes wouldn't have existed as the wroters tried to explain things without getting unrealistic.
 
This is my biggest issue with Hollywood. Accept a movie that involves giant transforming robots from space, but mass shifting is too unrealistic (Um, what the hell did the cube do then?). Comic movies are always guilty of this.

From what I understand, the Cube is raw power so while its one of the many not so realistic flaws(along with the fact that there Giant robots from space), it implies that the cube is so powerful that it can do that.

FoolKiller
And that is why I think the more recent movies produced by Marvel work so well. They are fun in a comic book sort of way because they didn't over analyze what an audience can and cannot accept. I mean, in Iron Man they basically said, "Yes a guy in a cave with scraps built a powered armor suit. Accept it." If Transformers had not gone this "realism" route it would have just been more fun and some of the loopholes wouldn't have existed as the wroters tried to explain things without getting unrealistic.

I've never read their comics but I've seen some of their TV shows(in particular, X-men).
 
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racecar: Jazz's Porsche body was removed because General Motors got exclusive licensing rights. and porsche is kinda notorious for not letting their OWN licensing rights out unless it's exclusively MEANT for them to show off. also, about Jazz's voice acting: his Original Series voice actor was Scatman Caruthers, and African American of another era. they had to use a more modern voice concept, and of course, they were going to go with the current rapper stereotype. I'da rather heard an eighties type like a guy who breakdances (look THAT up :P). I kept anticipating cracks about big butts and "ho"s and a few four letter words.

on megatron: the gun form was discontinued because some idiots will automatically shoot ANYBODY sporting a gun, even if it's obviously plastic. in Australia, it is rumored that original Megatrons can only be found in the hands of gun collectors. he's THAT realistic. also, the safety regs involving the original toys "missle action" are really wacky.

as for changes in the format between concept creators...well, the purists wanted to see ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but the G1 (original series) in original forms, in the original time, etc, etc. they were sorely disappointed when things were changed. however, these are the same people who dismiss every other variant besides the original series. which aired and was conceived 25 years ago. I think to placate the purists, the somehow finagled the original voice of Optimus.

also, I did some thinking while re-reading large size portions of the Transformers Wiki. "wheels" may actually be referring to the 86 movie's bit character "Wheelie", and orphaned micro with a penchant for rhyming, and the world's most annoying voice distortion trick (it would make Barney go all Jurassic park on him!)
 
about Jazz's voice acting: his Original Series voice actor was Scatman Caruthers, and African American of another era. they had to use a more modern voice concept, and of course, they were going to go with the current rapper stereotype.
Because a laid-back jazzy sounding voice is sooooo hard to come by these days. The change in attitude removes his tactician personality, which was ten times more important to the character than being voiced by a black man.

however, these are the same people who dismiss every other variant besides the original series. which aired and was conceived 25 years ago.
Incorrect, many of us accept Beast Wars as part of the canon. But in all honesty, the writing, storytelling, etc was so much better in seasons 1 and 2 than any other. And as much as some wish to make it sound like G1 fans are being stuck up, look at how little fanfare every other generation has received. It should tell you something, especially when they are basically recycling stories and characterizations.

I think to placate the purists, the somehow finagled the original voice of Optimus.
Actually Peter Cullen went through the proper tryout process and had to do a reading to get the job. According to Michael Bay, he was sold on Cullen when the female assistant reading Ironhide's part wasn't giving it any emotion and Cullen asked her if she minded if he read it too since he did both on the show. The fact is, there are very few career voice actors out there that are better talented or known than Cullen. He also seems very down to Earth as he never realized he was a celebrity until his daughter forced him to go look at a Transformer fan site where they were putting multiple public requests for him to show up at the next Botcon. He didn't even know anyone knew his name, or that Transformers had such a loyal following.

After that realization he distend to the fans requests to try out for the movie, because he wanted the fans to be happy and decided he wanted to give them back something for making him feel so good about his career.

I mean, I don't hear anyone complaining that he is also brought back in to do Eeyore in every new Winnie the Pooh cartoon. That's right, Optimus Prime is also Eeyore. If that doesn't show range of ability, I don't know what can.



Also, if Cullen was just a fanboy service then why didn't Frank Welker, who also did readings, get the Megatron gig? It was not about fanboy service. In fact, I believe Michael Bay actually said something along the lines of F- them. No, Cullen was the best for the job, and every other Optimus Prime voice actor has attempted to emulate Cullen.
 
Frank Welker, I believe could NOT be talked into it, and he MAY be dead (Chris Latta, famous for voicing Starscream and Cobra Commander, really IS dead, and spent too much time in Jail during the run of G1)

I've checked. they wanted welker to do Megatron in the Beast Wars episodes from the end of season two (Megs recorded a message on the edge of the disk attached to Voyager probes in case he was ever defeated.

Transformers Wiki
According to Ben Yee, Bob Forward desperately wanted Frank Welker to reprise the role of Generation 1 Megatron for the Beast Wars episode "The Agenda (Part 2)" and even offered to go to Welker's home in California and tape-record his lines there. However, Welker declined the role supposedly because Forward was unable to offer him a sufficient amount of money and his schedule was too busy.

Christopher Collins, a.k.a. Chris Latta (August 30, 1949 - June 12, 1994) unspecified and questionable causes.

also..Porsche is now on the "No War Associations" list, when asked about licencing a body for a Transformers
 
Frank Welker, I believe could NOT be talked into it, and he MAY be dead (Chris Latta, famous for voicing Starscream and Cobra Commander, really IS dead, and spent too much time in Jail during the run of G1)
From the Frank Welker Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Welker
Welker was asked to audition to reprise his original role of Megatron in the 2007 live action Transformers movie. Apparently due to conflict in schedules, Welker never met with the producers or director Michael Bay. Bay, however, had Welker send him a couple of recorded lines and concluded Welker's Megatron did not fit his new interpretation of the character. Although this did not occur in the film itself, Welker reunited with Transformers co-star Peter Cullen in the 2007 Transformers: The Game, with both returning to voice their signature roles. He also reprised his role in the animated prequel, a bonus premium of the DVD package.
 
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