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- dawko-san
What kind of question even is that?? lol...
Transgender Thread.
- Thread starter Com Fox
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- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
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But there is at least one series upcoming in which men are not allowed entry. Come to think of it I would say it falls into the category of politics and gender stereotyping.
You do need to approach it with nuance though. The goal is to get more women in racing and not division. Although it conflicts with the idea of a level playing field, it is more of a PR goal to make racing more feminine and inspire girls and young women to see racing not as purely a male thing.
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It's sexist, discriminatory and exclusionary by definition in the modern world. Do you support sexism, discrimination and exclusion of certain groups as defined by natural traits so long as it's beneficial to the group in question? What aspect of the playing field isn't level at the moment and what data do you have to support it?
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Wait... are you accusing me of sexism, discrimination? I was stating the goal of the formula W series.
These were the thoughts of a female driver who is invited to the new series in an interview. The interview is localized so you probably dont have acces. Also various statements made by people involved with the W series.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/reports-all-female-w-series-to-launch-in-2019
"We at W Series firmly believe that female and male racing drivers can compete with one another on equal terms given the same opportunity. At the moment, however, women racing drivers tend to reach a ‘glass ceiling’ at around the GP3/Formula 3 level on their learning curve, often as a result of a lack of funding rather than a lack of talent.That’s why an all-new all-female single-seater motor racing series is required – W Series – to establish a competitive and constructive motorsport habitat in which our drivers will be able to equip themselves with the necessary skill-set eventually to move on up to existing high-level mainstream racing series and compete with the best male drivers on equal terms"
Starting at minute 27
Pippa Mann of indycar called itn a circus, but apparantly the majority of high ranking female drivers are welcoming the idea.
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- Johnnypenso
I said, "by definition". If you exclude one group from participating by definition it's discrimination. If you exclude them based on sex, by definition it's sexism. This racing series is by definition sexist and discriminatory. Racing success is defined by sponsorship. If you don't get it you can't continue or be successful. Can you point to several women that have had undeniable talent at lower levels of racing that failed to gain sponsorhip to get to the next level? Would you exclude transgendered women from this series?
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Back to topic. Yes transgender should be eligible to join the W series. They indentify as women and have no discernable physical or genetic advantage over the other competitors.
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So the discrimination and sexism should be limited to natural born males that remain males.
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- novcze
if you are wondering like me what is Masters Track Cycling World Championships it's basically for veterans, 35 and older ... not that it changes anything about unfairness, even though no rules were broken
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That is a question you should ask the organizers of the W series. I already stated my opinion and your just ignoring it.
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I am stating your position with that quote. Your position, by definition, is that discrimination is okay in this case against natural born males who remain male. You have not made any statements that repeat that. Again I ask you, can you point to some female or transgendered racers who have exhibited exceptional talent but have been effectively punished by a lack of sponsorship?
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No i did not say that. The W series is there to promote females in racing. Because of motorsports being a male dominant sport. There are girls that dont follow through are just not interested in racing, making the talentpool relatively small.
I dont follow racing enough to give you any examples. But there are more then enough males with talent out there that are punished by lack of funds or sponsorship. It isnt difficult to imagine that for female drivers.
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You did, by definition.
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No that definition is what you made up. I edited my post above.
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It's not made up its the actual definition.
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I never have stated discrimination is ok. That is what your own mind made up.
Lets just agree to disagree on this particular topic.
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You did. You gave your stamp of approval to this racing series that is limited to women only when there are no restrictions on women entering motorsport at any level AFAIK. Limiting it to one sex is sexism and discriminatory therefore you agreed that it's both sexist and discriminatory. You don't need to use the words to make it true.
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No I didnt. I only stated a womens series is a good way to promote motorsports to women.
In your world seperate bathrooms is discriminatory and sexist. Having male and female clothes etc. Why are bras only marketed for women? Stop spinning my words.
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I'm not spinning your words, I'm literally using your own words. When you decide to create an event that is for one gender it is, by definition, discrimination and sexist. You can decide for yourself if you're ok with that but you don't seem to have an issue with it. In this sport there is no physical or mental reason why women cannot compete on an even basis with men. I've given you the opportunity to show some evidence of women who have performed as good as men but couldn't get sponsorship as a result, which to some, might show a need to create a race series that is for women only, sort of like Affirmative Action in the United States. In fact, I think it could be argued the opposite has been true with some women, that they have received sponsorship way in excess of their talent level, simply because they were women and pretty.
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I'm not spinning your words, I'm literally using your own words. When you decide to create an event that is for one gender it is, by definition, discrimination and sexist. You can decide for yourself if you're ok with that but you don't seem to have an issue with it. In this sport there is no physical or mental reason why women cannot compete on an even basis with men. I've given you the opportunity to show some evidence of women who have performed as good as men but couldn't get sponsorship as a result, which to some, might show a need to create a race series that is for women only, sort of like Affirmative Action in the United States. In fact, I think it could be argued the opposite has been true with some women, that they have received sponsorship way in excess of their talent level, simply because they were women and pretty.
Nope it isnt. for discrimination there has to be a premise that it is unjust. If you organize a local female bowling league do you label it automatically as discrimination?
discrimination
/dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations
1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
You can argue what you want, but the goal isnt to exclude men, but to get more women into racing.
If you think its discrimination, then its discrimination. I am not going to argue with your on that, but dont spin my opinion as consenting to discrimination. Just say you think it is discrimination and dont tell me im consenting to discrimination.
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The definition you provided is literally exactly what is happening in this case.
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So you think their motivation is either unjust or based on prejudice? Then you can think it is discrimination.
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prej·u·di·cial
/ˌprejəˈdiSH(ə)l/
adjective
- harmful to someone or something; detrimental.
"the behavior is prejudicial to good order and discipline"
synonyms: detrimental, damaging, injurious, harmful, disadvantageous, hurtful, deleterious
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Does it? Which individual or group got hurt or received damage? I would like to see an example.
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Men are prevented from entering the series because of their genes. If you are barred from entry then you cannot benefit from whatever the series offers. This is pretty straightforward stuff. There's no question that it is discriminatory so you might as well put that aside for now. The question is, is that acceptable to you and on what basis is it acceptable? I've asked you several times to show me any female racing drivers I have shown great potential but have been unable to find sponsorship. You keep ignoring that question. If you can find a pattern of women being denied sponsorship although they are unquestionably skilled, then I think you would have a basis for saying that they have been treated unfairly and deserve a leg up.
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detrimental
/ˌdɛtrɪˈmɛnt(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: detrimental
tending to cause harm.
The narrative would work if you can find 1 male driver that wants to join, but cant.
I guess you are that 1 male that got hurt or received damage from the anouncement of a W series. I am not aware of any other male that received harm or got hurt? That is like saying "for women" branded consumer products are discrimination, because men are excluded from use.
What I am saying is, if the exclusion of men for a new racing series is not harmful or detrimental for them, then it isnt discrimination. You are the only one so far I have heard, met or seen that is somehow hurt or harmed by this new series. So for you the W series is discrimination. So we are both right.
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It's irrelevant if any man wants to join but I can guarantee if there was a new single make racing series with prize money they'd be lining up out the door for the chance to race. If you can't join, you can't benefit therefore it's detrimental. It's pretty simple. In the sports that are separated male/female, there is a physical reason why they are separated. That's also discrimination but it's logical and as a society we accept this because the discrimination is based on genetics. Women cannot compete with men at the highest levels in most forms of athletic contest. There is no physical or performance reason to separate men and women in racing therefore it's discrimination with no mitigating factors. On it's face it's sexist and discriminatory and men are harmed because they are not included.
Did anyone else catch the drama 'Butterfly' on ITV this week?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018...ell-intended-pushback-against-lazy-prejudice/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2018...ell-intended-pushback-against-lazy-prejudice/
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Thats a man baby - Austin Powers.Transgender woman Rachel McKinnon wins cycling world championship
Rachel McKinnon representing Canada won the world title in the master 35-39 women’s sprint at the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles on Sunday. McKinnon was born a biological male and now identifies as a transgender female. McKinnon celebrated the victory on Twitter writing, “First transgender woman world champion…ever.”
But seriously, its a man. If you feel you are a woman in a mans body, great, do what you want to do. But accept that you should not be competing in womens competitions. She won a womens race with a mans body. Taking test supressors does not change that, she has the advantage of years of devolping as a male. Women are being cheated and it does not sit well with me. Frankly this is all making a mockery of sports, and science. I will hold back on me full thoughts on this.
The only thing i have seen on that topic is coming from the person in question. She claims she has has been on testosterone supressors.
When all is said and done, Fallon Fox is the most disgusting example of a man becoming a trans woman and competing in a womens sport, MMA specifically. She was absolutetly trash and only had success because she was in fact a man, Lived as a man for 30 years before chopping off his penis. Its just so damn wrong an PC is the only thing allowing for this madness.
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