Trueforce Feedback after update 1.49

[hawkeyez]

My first ever DD new pro wheel and pedals arrived today to upgrade from a G923. I've spent three hours thinking wtaf is this? It felt lke it was trying to rip my arms off but all the engine rumble was gone. I was so confused and disappointed . Now just found out I'm not insane and there is actually something wrong with the update!

Mines been good, but maybe this latest update introduced some flaw again?

I can check my settings and post them but they’re pretty close to the Logitech recommended settings on their website, could try those.

 

[Twigletpinchr]

Mines been good, but maybe this latest update introduced some flaw again?

I can check my settings and post them but they’re pretty close to the Logitech recommended settings on their website, could try those.

Yeah I didn't realise this thread was old when I posted that. If you wouldn't mind posting your setting that would be great.

When I drove a Dodge Viper on the G923 I could really feel the engine vibrations in the wheel as I accelerated, but on the pro last night there was nothing. I messed with the controller vibration setting from 0 to 150 in game and I messed with trueforce audio on the wheel but it was always just dead for engine vibrations.

 

[Twigletpinchr]

Yeah I didn't realise this thread was old when I posted that. If you wouldn't mind posting your setting that would be great.

When I drove a Dodge Viper on the G923 I could really feel the engine vibrations in the wheel as I accelerated, but on the pro last night there was nothing. I messed with the controller vibration setting from 0 to 150 in game and I messed with trueforce audio on the wheel but it was always just dead for engine vibrations.

Wow I'm actually an idiot. I had controller vibration function switched off because I'd been doing afk money grind laps.

Got it sorted and feeling great now. It does turn out that I am weak af though so have max torque set to 4Nm on the wheel and even that feels like a lot right now.

 

[LOGI_Rich]

I haven’t tested the new update but I would have thought I’d have heard a lot more people mentioning if there was an issue. Are you sure P1 vibration is turned on in the controller settings and that the gain is turned up?

Edit: ah, sorry, didn’t see the new messages, just the one from last night.

 

[snc]

Game torque does indeed set the max possible torque output of the wheel and setting the in-game torque to 7Nm means you then have 11 graduations on the wheel, with 11 being the 7Nm max that you set in-game. Whilst that is true, it is important to know that, upon loading GT7, the wheel strength setting is COMPLETELY IGNORED unless you physically alter it on the wheel.

'Setting to 7 on base and 7 in game is not the same as setting it to 11 on base and 7 in game.'
This statement is correct, but only if you set the 7 on the base AFTER loading GT7, then the wheel will output 7/11th's of your 7Nm max. If you just load the game and don't alter the wheel, you'll get the full 7Nm that you set in-game.

For example... set your in-game torque to max and wheel strength to 1 and quit GT7.
Now load GT7 and play a game without touching your wheel strength setting.
The wheel will now output a full 11Nm despite your 1 setting on the wheel.

Now, with GT7 still running, manually change the wheel setting to 2 and your output torque will go straight from 11Nm to 2Nm, because the wheel is now overriding the game setting.

Potentially, you could leave your wheel at 1 and you will still have the full 1-11Nm range available in GT7 settings (as long as you don't touch the wheel setting).

The only advantage to how this works that I can see is if you don't ever want the wheel to output the full 11Nm, you can limit it in game and still adjust on the wheel within that limit.

Otherwise, you can either ignore the wheel setting altogether and only ever adjust torque in-game from 1-11Nm, or, set the in-game to max and do all your adjusting on the wheel (remembering to adjust it by at least 1 point on the wheel directly after GT7 loads up, or GT7 will ignore it).

I'm fairly sure that @LOGI_Rich would confirm all this.

Wait a minute, so I have different settings depending on if I turn on my wheel before launching gt7 or after ? lol

 

[Twigletpinchr]

Wait a minute, so I have different settings depending on if I turn on my wheel before launching gt7 or after ? lol

This has just blown my mind too. So if I want to stay at 6Nm all the time without having to keep adjusting my wheel settings, I set it to 6 in game and it doesn't matter what I set on the wheel?

 

[snc]

Game torque does indeed set the max possible torque output of the wheel and setting the in-game torque to 7Nm means you then have 11 graduations on the wheel, with 11 being the 7Nm max that you set in-game. Whilst that is true, it is important to know that, upon loading GT7, the wheel strength setting is COMPLETELY IGNORED unless you physically alter it on the wheel.

'Setting to 7 on base and 7 in game is not the same as setting it to 11 on base and 7 in game.'
This statement is correct, but only if you set the 7 on the base AFTER loading GT7, then the wheel will output 7/11th's of your 7Nm max. If you just load the game and don't alter the wheel, you'll get the full 7Nm that you set in-game.

For example... set your in-game torque to max and wheel strength to 1 and quit GT7.
Now load GT7 and play a game without touching your wheel strength setting.
The wheel will now output a full 11Nm despite your 1 setting on the wheel.

Now, with GT7 still running, manually change the wheel setting to 2 and your output torque will go straight from 11Nm to 2Nm, because the wheel is now overriding the game setting.

Potentially, you could leave your wheel at 1 and you will still have the full 1-11Nm range available in GT7 settings (as long as you don't touch the wheel setting).

The only advantage to how this works that I can see is if you don't ever want the wheel to output the full 11Nm, you can limit it in game and still adjust on the wheel within that limit.

Otherwise, you can either ignore the wheel setting altogether and only ever adjust torque in-game from 1-11Nm, or, set the in-game to max and do all your adjusting on the wheel (remembering to adjust it by at least 1 point on the wheel directly after GT7 loads up, or GT7 will ignore it).

I'm fairly sure that @LOGI_Rich would confirm all this.

Tested it, its corrrect lol So basically it behaves as strength is 11 and only ingame settings matter until you enter settings and change strength on wheel. Imo far from good experience but good to know. @LOGI_Rich how about other settings like TF Audio and FFB Filter, game also overwrite it ?

 

[Twigletpinchr]

Tested it, its corrrect lol So basically it behaves as strength is 11 and only ingame settings matter until you enter settings and change strength on wheel. Imo far from good experience but good to know. @LOGI_Rich how about other settings like TF Audio and FFB Filter, game also overwrite iFrom

Tested it, its corrrect lol So basically it behaves as strength is 11 and only ingame settings matter until you enter settings and change strength on wheel. Imo far from good experience but good to know. @LOGI_Rich how about other settings like TF Audio and FFB Filter, game also overwr

It should be, yes.

Edit: actually, it's slightly different because GT's torque has 10 settings and of course we're out of 11.

Set it at 7 in-game and 11Nm on the base... 11Nm x 70% = 7.7

Set it 10 in-game and 7Nm on the base... 7/11 = 64% (rounding up), so 63% of 11Nm is 7.04

It should be, yes.

Edit: actually, it's slightly different because GT's torque has 10 settings and of course we're out of 11.

Set it at 7 in-game and 11Nm on the base... 11Nm x 70% = 7.7

Set it 10 in-game and 7Nm on the base... 7/11 = 64% (rounding up), so 63% of 11Nm is 7.04

Just wanna check something with you Rich, I've read somewhere that if you control max torque from the game setting rather than from the wheel setting, you lose detail at lower values because of signal compression. But if you leave the game set to 10 and lower the value on the wheel after the game has loaded you get a more detailed ffb that is superior. Do you think that's right?

 

[LOGI_Rich]

This has just blown my mind too. So if I want to stay at 6Nm all the time without having to keep adjusting my wheel settings, I set it to 6 in game and it doesn't matter what I set on the wheel?

Yes, correct. With regards to your last question, if you leave the in-game set to 10 then I suppose you do get a more granular level of strength adjustment when using the OLED, because the OLED settings have decimal places.

@snc TF Audio is affected by the Vibration setting in GT7 and acts in the same way as the relationship between Max Torque/Strength. FFB Filter is not affected by anything in-game.

 

[Twigletpinchr]

Yes, correct. With regards to your last question, if you leave the in-game set to 10 then I suppose you do get a more granular level of strength adjustment when using the OLED, because the OLED settings have decimal places.

@snc TF Audio is affected by the Vibration setting in GT7 and acts in the same way as the relationship between Max Torque/Strength. FFB Filter is not affected by anything in-game.

But do you only lose detail in terms of being able to set it to one decimal place, or do you lose detail because of compression? What I mean by that is that if the game torque output is lets say for the sake of argument a 16 bit value, so from 0 to ~65000, then you cap it in game at Max Torque 1 (which lets say for the sake of argument is 10% of max), then the signal to the wheel would be between 0 and 6500, so there would be less steps between minimum torque and maximum torque than if you set it to 10 in game when it would be from 0 to ~65000. So the "resolution" of the signal would be 10 times lower.

Do you get what I mean?


Edit: Corrected 10% lower to 10 times lower.

 

[notarjy]

Here is my experience: originally I thought the same that you might lose detail so I used 10 torque in game and then adjusted torque on the wheel. My biggest issue with doing this of course was needing to adjust the wheel settings for different types of cars, especially the gr1 cars with their oscillation issues. The problem compounded a bit when I got the RS shifter and now am taking one hand off the wheel more often to shift.

Recently after the last big physics/tire update, I decided to try the opposite. I tested different in game torque while leaving the wheel on 11. To my surprise, I found a "sweet spot" with the in game torque all the way down at 4. With this setting, I find no real loss of detail, and more importantly I find it drivable with all variants of cars from low PP kei cars to gr1 monsters and everything in between, nothing has required me to make "per car" adjustments to my wheel settings like before.

Of course with back to back comparison, higher in game torque feels overall better to me but introduces more problems with certain cars. Leaving it at 4 and getting used to it, now I dont feel like I am missing out on anything while all cars are drivable without needing to adjust. Basically I am saying it is worth experimenting with to see if you like it better, I never would have thought I do but now my experience with the game has overall improved.

 

[LOGI_Rich]

Yep, it's not compressed; all of the force feedback effects are there but it's of course over a smaller torque range, so smaller effects are less noticeable.

 

[hawkeyez]

Here is my experience: originally I thought the same that you might lose detail so I used 10 torque in game and then adjusted torque on the wheel. My biggest issue with doing this of course was needing to adjust the wheel settings for different types of cars, especially the gr1 cars with their oscillation issues. The problem compounded a bit when I got the RS shifter and now am taking one hand off the wheel more often to shift.

Recently after the last big physics/tire update, I decided to try the opposite. I tested different in game torque while leaving the wheel on 11. To my surprise, I found a "sweet spot" with the in game torque all the way down at 4. With this setting, I find no real loss of detail, and more importantly I find it drivable with all variants of cars from low PP kei cars to gr1 monsters and everything in between, nothing has required me to make "per car" adjustments to my wheel settings like before.

Of course with back to back comparison, higher in game torque feels overall better to me but introduces more problems with certain cars. Leaving it at 4 and getting used to it, now I dont feel like I am missing out on anything while all cars are drivable without needing to adjust. Basically I am saying it is worth experimenting with to see if you like it better, I never would have thought I do but now my experience with the game has overall improved.

I agree it’s definitely dial in to taste, I’ve tried some users settings and didn’t like them at all.

I think adjusting one parameter at a time gives you a better idea of what that effect does, especially going to the extremes, then you can decide where you’d like that setting.

I think I’m at in game torque at 8? I have three wheel settings, one for comfort tires, one for sport tires and one for racing tires. Sometimes the sports soft tires I need to go to the racing tires setting. Comfort is 11 on the wheel, then each one drops by about 2nm ish. That seems to work for me. I can’t remember what my other settings are. I do think I have controller vibration up quite high.