Tsukuba lap times for 130 N-class cars - 1 remaining

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by MidFieldMaven, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    T300 wheel, paddle shifters, ABS and Brake Balance at default settings. All other aids off.

    Tires are Sport Hard for every car.

    All cars tested on v1.32+

    Spreadsheet (updated March 18) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...V8Sf2w4iNCinJNoMyne6S90THaUqOUkoOxEWV/pubhtml

    N100
    1:08.865 - Alpine A110
    1:10.463 - Mazda Roadster S (ND)
    1:11.134 - Toyota S-FR
    1:11.416 - Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA)
    1:11.783 - Porsche 356 A/1500 GS GT Carrera Speedster
    1:12.469 - Suzuki Swift Sport
    1:12.527 - Abarth 500
    1:16.236 - Honda S660
    1:16.494 - Honda Beat
    1:17.408 - Abarth 1500 Biposto Bertone B.A.T. 1
    1:17.435 - Daihatsu Copen
    1:18.851 - Mini Mini-Cooper 'S'
    1:27.105 - Volkswagen 1200
    1:32.582 - Volkswagen Sambabus Typ 2
    1:37.957 - Fiat 500 F

    N200
    1:03.622 - Alfa Romeo 4C
    1:05.954 - Toyota MR2 GT-S
    1:06.751 - Ferrari Dino 246 GT
    1:07.168 - BMW M3 Sport Evolution
    1:07.271 - Toyota 86 GRMN
    1:07.290 - Renault Sport Clio R.S. 220 Trophy '15
    1:07.324 - Renault Sport Clio R.S. 220 Trophy '16
    1:07.559 - Mazda RX-7 GT-X (FC)
    1:07.790 - Volkswagen Golf VII GTI
    1:07.867 - Peugeot 208 GTi by Peugeot Sport
    1:08.052 - Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    1:08.122 - Subaru BRZ S
    1:08.220 - Toyota 86 GT
    1:08.625 - Citroen DS3
    1:08.647 - Honda Integra Type R (DC2)
    1:08.707 - Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evoluzione
    1:09.924 - Peugeot RCZ GT Line
    1:09.959 - Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L Package
    1:10.127 - Toyota 2000GT
    1:10.161 - Mini Cooper S
    1:10.999 - Alfa Romeo MiTo

    N300
    1:01.226 - KTM X-Bow R
    1:03.254 - Toyota GR Supra RZ
    1:03.328 - Mazda RX500
    1:03.717 - Nissan R34 GT-R V-Spec II Nur
    1:03.936 - Nissan R33 GT-R V-Spec
    1:04.038 - De Tomaso Pantera
    1:04.047 - Audi TTS Coupe
    1:04.226 - Alpine A110
    1:04.273 - Nissan R32 GT-R V-Spec II
    1:04.276 - Subaru WRX STI Type S
    1:04.296 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evo.Final
    1:04.394 - Subaru Impreza 22B-STi Version
    1:04.455 - Gran Turismo Greddy Fugu Z
    1:04.495 - Honda NSX Type R
    1:04.506 - Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD)
    1:04.825 - Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33)
    1:04.835 - Toyota Supra RZ
    1:05.144 - Honda Civic Type R (FK2)
    1:05.144 - Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8
    1:05.160 - Shelby G.T.350
    1:05.647 - Ford Mustang Mach 1
    1:05.759 - Chevrolet Corvette C3
    1:05.931 - Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX TT 2seater
    1:06.010 - Renault Sport Megane R.S. Trophy
    1:06.210 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evo.IV GSR
    1:06.378 - Jaguar E-type Coupe
    1:06.735 - Ford Focus ST
    1:07.209 - Toyota Supra 3.0GT Turbo A
    1:09.098 - Plymouth XNR Ghia Roadster

    N400
    1:00.556 - Ford GT40 Mark I
    1:00.948 - Toyota S-FR Racing Concept
    1:01.233 - Porsche 911 GT3 (997)
    1:01.879 - Ferrari GTO
    1:01.941 - BMW M4
    1:02.394 - Audi R8 4.2
    1:02.566 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage S
    1:02.573 - Lamborghini Countach LP400
    1:02.646 - Porsche 911 GT3 (996)
    1:02.846 - Maserati GranTurismo S
    1:03.054 - Ferrari 512 BB
    1:03.163 - TVR Tuscan Speed 6
    1:03.266 - BMW M3
    1:03.795 - Ford Mustang GT
    1:03.803 - BMW Z8
    1:04.628 - Mercedes-Benz A 45 AMG
    1:05.486 - Chevrolet Corvette C2
    1:05.779 - Dodge Challenger R/T
    1:06.175 - Ford F-150 SVT Raptor

    N500
    0:59.424 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991)
    0:59.625 - Subaru WRX Gr.B Road Car
    0:59.678 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evo.Final Gr.B Road Car
    0:59.853 - Ferrari F40
    1:00.443 - Citroen GT by Citroen Road Car
    1:00.564 - Ferrari F50
    1:00.584 - Alfa Romeo 4C Gr.3 Road Car
    1:00.822 - Shelby Cobra 427
    1:00.865 - Chevrolet Corvette Gr.3 Road Car
    1:00.930 - Mercedes-Benz AMG GT S
    1:00.986 - Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe
    1:00.995 - Peugeot RCZ Gr.3 Road Car
    1:01.237 - Mazda Atenza Gr.3 Road Car
    1:01.240 - Ford Mustang Gr.3 Road Car
    1:01.913 - Chevrolet Corvette C7
    1:01.927 - Dodge Viper GTS
    1:02.486 - Lexus RC F
    1:02.571 - Chevrolet Camaro SS
    1:03.090 - Lexus LC500

    N600
    0:58.727 - McLaren F1
    0:59.339 - Lamborghini Huracan LP 610-4
    0:59.414 - Gran Turismo Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo
    0:59.869 - Nissan GT-R Nismo
    0:59.888 - McLaren MP4-12C
    0:59.970 - Dodge Viper GTS
    1:00.052 - Ferrari 458 Italia
    1:00.445 - Nissan GT-R
    1:00.465 - Lamborghini Diablo GT
    1:00.595 - Ford GT
    1:00.738 - Honda NSX
    1:00.787 - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
    1:01.191 - Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
    1:01.249 - Aston Martin DB11
    1:01.795 - Jaguar F-type R

    N700
    0:58.588 - Pagani Huayra
    0:59.300 - Ferrari Enzo Ferrari
    0:59.665 - Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4
    0:59.701 - McLaren 650S
    1:00.537 - GT Awards (SEMA) 1967 Chevy Nova
    1:01.806 - Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat

    N800

    0:58.724 - Lamborghini Veneno
    0:59.646 - Aston Martin Vulcan
    0:59.714 - Aston Martin One-77
    0:59.819 - GT Awards (SEMA) Mach Forty

    N1000
    0:57.967 - Bugatti Veyron 16.4
    0:58.110 - Ferrari LaFerrari

    TBD
    Lamborghini Miura P400 Bertone Prototype CN.0706
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019 at 1:49 PM
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  2. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I wonder what tires were on this car that made it over a second faster than I could manage.

     
  3. Cale

    Cale Premium

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    Modern track tires like sport cup 2s or trofeo r (which I assume the nismo comes with something similar IRL) is probably more comparable to sports soft. Modern tire technology has moved on from gt4 where street cars came with a sports hard equivalent.
     
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  4. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    That bit about tires evolving over the last 15 years makes a lot of sense. It appears I'm the one failing to evolve :crazy::scared::sly:

    Tested 3 cars this evening. Notable entries include Toyota 2000GT in a three-way tie with Toyota S-FR and Mazda Roadster. Audi R8 finished one tenth of a second ahead of the Chevrolet Corvette Stingray (C7).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  5. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Tested the Alfa Romeo 4C and KTM X-Bow R after work today. Both are the fastest in their class. The 4C is faster than just about every N300 car besides the X-Bow R, which itself is faster than the Audi R8, albeit much harder to keep under control.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  6. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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    @MidFieldMaven You state that you this is a comparison/sequel to your amazing Suzuka East TT. Will there ever be a comparison spreadsheet? Because this is one of the most interesting comparisons on GTPlanet. I know that I am a bit of a nerd and that I am geeking out really hard on this kind of stuff. Your testing generates a constant for testing cars. Until now there was only the difference between the cars, now there are two tracks involved. This means that after identifying the characteristics of the two tracks you can analyse what the strong suits of each Nxxxx class car are.
    I would love to help setting up this kind of comparison, but I am uncomfortable with giving myself a large degree of authority regarding this subject.
    I'd love hear your thoughts on this matter and keep up the good work!
     
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  7. pedrocor

    pedrocor

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    Alpine A110 Premiere Edition test to be soon?
     
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  8. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Something like this? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...-iyxzcOVDKovSKbokDjhL6dg5_jvxCuZ2ErZL/pubhtml

    I'm just good at testing/gathering data but I'm not sure how to use it.

    Tonight I hope.
     
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  9. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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  10. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Interested in what you're planning, @oinksnork.

    Tonight, I tested the Alpine A110 Premiere Edition and McLaren F1. The Alpine is about 8 tenths of a second slower than the Alfa 4C. Similar result at Suzuka East.

    At Tsukuba, the Bugatti Veyron is actually a full second faster than the McLaren F1, while they were tied at Suzuka East. Interesting...
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  11. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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    At the moment I am working on a system that compares positions to eachother. To make this process more comprehensive per track and for comparing the two tracks. This proves to be more challenging than expected because Google sheets and Microsoft Excel are unholy nightmares when it comes to working with times in milliseconds. At attempt number 5 of setting this up in a mm:ss,msmsms (minutes:seconds,milliseconds) I gave up. Because in every attempt the data was corrupted/transformed to utter garbage or it was not readable for the functions of those programs. I will try manually converting all the data to a base 10 dataset so those programs will not have the chance to interpret that data in any other way than I want it to.
    A teaser for what I am trying to do is visualizing how great of a car is from the average keep time of its group. This means you cold determine easier where the strengths of a car lie. Lateral grip and stability on Suzuka and acceleration on Tsukuba.
    @MidFieldMaven I would like to hear your opinions on what makes a car shine on Suzuka East versus Tsukuba.
     
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  12. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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    This is what I have created so far. It is far from finished, but the way it works way to labour intensive. I know that automating it is too, but why do it the easy way when you could do it the hard way (The easy way is so boring that I won't do it, so that is why...).
    I'd love to hear any feedback that you may have.
     
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  13. Jumbone1

    Jumbone1

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    Just wondered if you guys had thought of comparing N Class cars with Bop on.
    I did some testing with N200 and despite BOP on there was quite a difference between the cars. I was going to do other classes but I don't have a wheel so can't run consistent either enough lines and times.

    It would be good to know how the N class stack up with Bop on for lobby/league or racing the AI. Unfortunately there is no way to force people to use cars that are totally stock in the lobbies as they can be quick tuned even with "no tuning" selected, so many people turn Bop on to equalise things.
     
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  14. John Moore

    John Moore

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    How many cars does the time trial leaderboard in GT Sport hold? The one with your own best times?
     
  15. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    There are no hairpin turns at Suzuka East, while Tsukuba has two, maybe three. I feel that Tsukuba pushes cars to their limits more effectively. Suzuka is kind of zen-like, with wavy S-turns that force you to carry momentum through almost the entire track. I get in the "zone" more there, but Tsukuba offers a more satisfying feeling after a fast lap.

    As for BoP testing, that's a no-go for me. I want to test each car as it comes from the factory.

    I believe the leaderboard in Time Trial mode holds 10 of the fastest times.

    Tonight, I tested the Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 T Sport and Toyota 86 GRMN. I didn't want to test anything difficult to control as I'm pretty exhausted from work.
     
  16. Sprite

    Sprite Premium

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    @MidFieldMaven coukd I ask how you’re getting your times?

    Are you doing 1 warmup lap then a fast lap? Or just running multiple laps (none specific number) and picking the best time or are you doing multiple laps but a specific number?

    Also do you run tyre ware and fual depletion?
     
  17. Tou2istTrophy

    Tou2istTrophy

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    Do you change brake balance? And do you know if weather conditions make any difference to lap times?
     
  18. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I typically spend between 15-20 minutes per car. If I fall behind my ghost, I restart the lap. I run laps until I can't beat my ghost anymore.

    I leave the brake balance alone. The only aid I have on is ABS. I have wondered about weather/time conditions, but I don't think they affect anything. I pick the 12:00 time for every run.
     
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  19. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Tested two this morning, the Volkswagen Golf VII GTI and Peugeot 208 GTi. By some miracle, both clocked in a 1:09.7xx lap time, about a tenth of a second faster than Toyota 86.

    Edit: Four more cars have been tested. I love lazy Sundays!

    Peugeot RCZ GT Line
    Citroen DS3 Racing
    Renault Sport Clio R.S. 220 EDC Trophy
    Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L package

    I'm up to 30, so we're more than a third of the way through.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  20. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    N200 has been completed. My favorite car in this group is the MR2. Toyota needs to bring it back for a fourth generation. The M3, Clio, and 86 GRMN all finish at the same time, as does the Mazda Atenza and Peugeot RCZ.
     
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  21. tofuhero

    tofuhero

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    Pretty impressive that the Alfa 4C beats everything in N300 so far except the X-Bow.
     
  22. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Tested one car tonight, the Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A. It's more than a second faster than the Supra.
     
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  23. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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    So should a Tsukuba lap time be more important than a Suzuka lap time? I I could make the relative positions of a Tsukuba lap time weigh more if needed. If so, what should be the weighting factor of each track?

    Edit: found out that weighting factor is more correct tan weighing factor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  24. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I'd say a Tsukuba lap time gives a better idea of a car's strengths and weaknesses. What do you mean by 'weighing factor?' Like a specific sector/turn?
     
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  25. oinksnork

    oinksnork

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    With a weighting factor you can represent the importance of certain aspects in a comparison. Here we try to find the best cars of a class, with as input the Suzuka and Tsukuba times. Now the weighting factors are 1 and 1 respectively. If you think that the Tsukuba lap times say 1.5 times more about a cars performance than the Suzuka lap times. In that situation the weighting factors become 3 for Tsukuba and 2 for Suzuka.
     
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  26. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    3:2 sounds good to me. Tsukuba definitely requires more skill to successfully hot lap.

    Tested two cars this morning. Audi TTS Coupe and Toyota S-FR Racing Concept. I spent around 20 minutes to bring the Toyota down to 1:02.0 and then another 20 minutes to finally breathe a sigh of relief with a 1:01.9 lap.

    Edit: Tested Nissan GT-R R32. It's only two tenths slower than the R34. I'll repeat that...two (2) tenths slower than the R34. Incredible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  27. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    All FF's have been tested. Also tested Toyota Supra 3.0GT Turbo A. It's 1.5 seconds slower than the Supra RZ.

    That's all for today. We're almost at the halfway point!
     
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  28. ghostrider135

    ghostrider135 Premium

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    A few interesting results, I for one would have expected that a Nismo GTR would kick a Mclaren F1, Maybe not enough corners to really make a huge gap.
     
  29. GordonS

    GordonS

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    Indeed. I wonder if Racing Hards would make any difference in favour for the GT-R.
    Nice job @MidFieldMaven
     
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  30. ghostrider135

    ghostrider135 Premium

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    Even Sport softs would have probably favored the GT-R then again with these being done using PD's stock tunes (I assume) its not a stretch to imagine there will be some irregularities.
     
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