Tuning Guide by unbridledterror. Explination added

Discussion in 'GTS Tuning' started by Unbridledt, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

    Messages:
    20
    Hi there, new to gt sport but not to the gt series. The following is to be taken with a grain of salt, and before you knock the methods I explain below, please give them a whirl. I use a g29 wheel, so let that be reflected in my ideas. The 1st section is how I baseline a setup, and the 2nd is how I fine tune or tweak a tune.

    POWERBAND CHOICE
    Before I elaborate on tuning, id like to focus on things we cant change when choosing a vehicle with respect to BOP or class restrictions. In gt6, we had the ability to fine hp/tq/and respective curve shapes, and this allowed for optimization of average power across a powerband. It is now gone, replaced with a simplistic slider. Ill give 1 rule here that is generic but so far works. An engine that needs to be restricted below stock hp levels will be faster than an engine that needs to exceed stock levels to meet BOP. I think that power to weight is a calculation based on peak HP, not average, in gt sport and as it was in gt6. When we restrict a powerband below stock levels, the hp curve flattens at peak. This in a restricted setting provides a broader average power window than if the hp curve was a peak per same power to weight. This is also an advantage when tuning gears which I will attack later.

    SPRINGS
    I tend to run softer values proportional to weight bias front to back as close as possable to start. Somewhere below the mid point of the slider.

    RIDE HEIGHT
    I tend to start low, halfway between the bottom and middle of the slider. I IGNORE bias on numerical values such as a 458 GR4 (when sliders both equal, numbers are different.) This is due to ride height also controlling overall suspension travel in gt sport. This requires some testing to figure out, but im 90 percent sure it is a remnant of gt6 left over(theres a few)

    SWAY BARS(ANTI ROLL BARS)
    Unless you are going over obsene amounts of bumps, more so than nord* I gravitate toward High values, at least 7, often 10. I run sometimes a bias to aid in traction depending on the vehicle. Running less sway in rear helps plant rear for more bite on corner exit, but can lead to understeer after the apex from under utilizing inside front tire on throttle. Less noticeable off throttle. Running less in front can a more loose feel on corner entry, and create more front bite on corner exit, but can under utilize inside rear on corner exit causing inside wheel spin or snap oversteer if grip is aproaching limit. For now set to 10/10

    DAMPERS

    WAY LESS adjustment range from gt6, so this is really for fine tuning. To start, i like the bump as low as possable front and rear, and I set rebound as high as possable front and rear. Ill cover this more in section 2.

    TOE

    Front, I VERY rarely adjust toe unless the vehicle has a problem with ackerman geometry.(google it) This a serious PITA to figure out in gt sport without telemetry, and I will 99.999% of the time zero this setting out. I believe it creates more problems than it fixes.

    Rear, I play with values in or out of around +or- .050 but often no more or less than .015
    Set to 0.00 to start.

    CAMBER
    This was a touchy subject in gt6. I was a believer in 0 front and rear after a certain update which I cant remember. For gt sport it is a necessary evil which must be adjusted based on track.

    Set at -1.9 Front -2.3 Rear for a baseline.

    DIFFERENTIAL

    Notice nothing so far ive said is dependent on drive type, this changes now. All my numbers are initial torque, accel, then decel.

    FF- I need help here, as I rarely drive FF, but I tend to run 5,5,5. Explination to follow.
    FR, MR, RR- I spend 95% of my time driving these layouts, start 5,15,5.
    AWD- Front diff baseline 5,5,5, rear diff baseline 5,15,5

    DOWNFORCE
    Front- I use as much as possable unless there is terminal oversteer as a last option.
    Rear- I start at the highest value.

    BRAKE BIAS
    I leave at zero, yet to see any gains +or- in laptimes yet.

    GEARS
    This is a tough subject to put into type for me, so ill keep it simple and generic. This isnt the end all be all, but it will get you close.
    If you are racing from a stop, you have a choice to make. Optimise first gear for launch, or optimise first gear for the slowest corner on track. Setting up for launch is to place first gear on the borderline of blowing out the tires on green, but to the point where they dont spin. Setup for corners, place first gear so your RPM through the slowest corner is at or below the start of peak HP by about 500 RPM. Your top gear should be set 6-9 MPH above the fastest speed on track you hit to account for draft. You should account for powerband, so the engine falls on its face, you may have to lenghten the gear not to lose speed. Adjust your gears 2 to below top to have even spacing at the top of your graph below redline. I find this to be fastest. Section 2 will come tomorrow. How did I do?
     
  2. Oizon21

    Oizon21

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    75
    Hi, what's your G29 settings? Sens and FF?
     
  3. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Feedback and sensitivity are both 5's
     
  4. nocdevon

    nocdevon

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    United States
    Is it possible that you and I could talk, perhaps via a PlayStation chat room, I would love to learn more about tuning as it has been my overall weakness in this series of games. I am waiting on my driving chair to arrive along with my T300RS. Once I have these I am going to really dive into this game especially into the tuning and Sport racing.

    Thanks
    P.S please expand my quote of your post to see my input.
     
  5. Skygrasper550

    Skygrasper550 Premium

    Messages:
    2,927
    on FF cars, LSD Accel should be 30 at minimum, so that the inside drive wheel won't spin when turning and applying the throttle. An inside drive wheel that's spinning is trouble for any FF car . I tend to use 40 most of the time, though I never go past 50 because that just gives too much power to the outside drive wheel, causing the wheel to spin and not grip at all.
     
    TNR_KING_FILO likes this.
  6. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Thank you for the input grasper. I really seldom touch FF, just not my cup of tea. What you said makes total sense.
     
  7. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Yes, I am on now, you can add me if youd like. Typing section 2 in a minute here. In short what I know with regards to sway bars is that, unless a hydraulic setup is modeled like mclaren uses, there is crosstalk from 1 side to the other in gt sport as was in gt6. If you think about the concept of bump and sway, both are a situation where one wheel is at a different place in the range of travel. Bump is motion acted upon the wheel from the road, where as sway is a function of steering angle, roll center, and Cog. Both act to compress 1 side more than another, except sway is not a factor in straight line driving. I will mention more about camber and downforce in section 2 because theres more to interpret than mentioned thus far regarding either.
     
  8. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

    Messages:
    20
    Section 2.
    After a base tune, how to interpret feedback from the vehicle, and apply it to go faster.

    There is only 1 rule, 1 PARAMETER CHANGE AT A TIME!
    Unless you are really comfortable tuning, multiple changes can wack out the car and leave you chasing problems that you caused by not being patient.
    First we must examine what is proper utilization of tires as briefly touched upon in sway bars.
    If you ever played forza 1-4, you may have seen tire graphs in telemetry that looked like 4 circles representing each tire. I could dream gt sport could integrate some type of graph as such but here is the best explination I am aware of.
    Weight should shift to the tires obviously to the tires which have a job to do at any given time. Proper untilzation of all 4 tires is a function of the variables tuning parameters, and understanding how to work with relative constants such as drive type, weight bias, and CoG of the chassis. That being said, you should give the car a few laps on an intended course, and attempt to push the car past its limits a bit and try to force over and under steer. Note where they occur, and how the vehicle reacts aproaching its limits. From the base tune provided, I focus on splitting a differential problem from a chassis problem first. Aside from FF, (look to the post by sky for a base) my goal is slight oversteer on, and off throttle via the differential settings. My base should get you close to optimal, and I only deviate when 2 situations occur.
    First is when the outside rear loses grip at the same time or slightly before the inside tire. At the limit, this can create snap oversteer from too quick of a loss of grip. I back down the accel until i just notice the inside tire starting to lose grip under acceleration, and then +1 to whatever that setting is. This in my opinion is when your acceleration is set right unless optimised for a high speed application, or the chassis is wacked (road car 66 gt40 with RS tires in gt6, not seen yet in gt sport)
    Second is when you are entering a corner and attempting to turn in and the car snaps loose or is completly uncontrollable. You have many options on how to deal with the problem. Adjust suspension to compensate, adjust initial torque, adjust decel, adjust any combination of the 3 stated parameters. Confusing right? I have a tendency to set off throttle behavior with my chassis and attempt to set on throttle behavior with my differential first. I personally think it leads to higher mid corner speeds, compared to adjusting the differential. This is because when an axle has 2 tires at different speeds you are acually throwing the wheels into a bind of sorts when using an lsd with higher torque values causing stabilization by drag. Once we isolate the differential from the equation, I move to suspension.

    I tend to optimise the suspension based on my goal of what I want my vehicles "tendency toward oversteer" to be if I can change it. Certain vehicles are inherently neutral, some like to oversteer on or off throttle. I tend to place the tendency in line with how the car felt driving it for the 1st time. To attempt to correct a tendency toward oversteer from the inherent dynamic to the opposite can really slow a car down, from attempting to fix a roll center problem that cant be cured. Neutral cars are easier to obtain good results.

    My 1st adjustment in suspension will be playing with camber.

    Start with rear camber, if you followed my base you should be close but for all purposes raise or lower the rear 0.1 at a time. The best rear camber setting for a given track is when you have the most bite in the rear at speed, while not loosing grip accelerating at the lowest speed corner on track.

    Front camber is the same logic, but be mindful of your braking distances being impacted by excess camber. The best camber here is a compromise of bite while cornering and braking distance.

    By now the car may accelerate properly from a corner, but it could still have under or oversteer problems. Next we will address dampers.

    Dampers have more than 1 job so heres the skinny. Dampers attempt to control occilation from road imperfections interacting not harmoniously with springs thus causing less than optimal grip, and also fine tune weight shift in ways springs cant.


    I start with my supplied baseline, this is what I would use on nurburgring. I then examine how the car is entering and exiting turns. If I think an axle is being over or under utilized I do the following. Front- too abrupt weight shift forward, I soften rear bump, stiffen rear rebound, then I soften front rebound and stiffen front bump. For the rear I do the inverse. Stiffen rear bump, soften rear rebound, soften front bump, stiffen front rebound.

    Moving to swaybars, keep at 10/10 for the most part. Try 9/10 or 10/9 and see what happens depending on the desired result. See section 1 for explination.

    Springs and ride height
    Past baseline, I work these 2 as a unit. I start by gradually lowering the car in the nose until either it bottoms out, or the car becomes too loose. I then raise the ride height a click or 2. Then I do the same to the rear until my balance feels like it has come back. I then slowly raise both front and rear as a pair until I feel the car is a bit skittish. I back down the springs a hair front and rear and this is where I tend to see the most success.

    Toe
    Play with toe in 0.05 increments +or- to change how the car transitions on corner entry and exit. Very little should be needed, if alot of toe fixes your car, the problem is elsewhere.

    Downforce
    From baseline, slowly take 5 pounds at a time off the rear of the vehicle until you notice a negative change in laptimes or feel. Ill usually add 5 pounds back at this point.

    Brakes
    I tend to try a small amount of bias either way but have had zero success.

    Gearbox.
    If you followed the baseline with 1st optimised for the slowest corner, lenghten 1st till the car bites on the slowest corner and leave it there.
    Next write down all the mph values you have.

    Gradually lower or raise the final drive number while keeping your shift points at the same rpm. Do this until the car seems to "buck" in gear. Usually happens in the lower gear spectrum. Raise the final drive number a bit until it goes away, thats the sweet spot.

    If your car still has oversteer, play with each of these individually first before combining
    Lower diff accel
    Lower rear ride height
    Lower rear spring rate
    Lower rear sway bar

    For understeer do the opposite of the above, but ignore the diff accel on the front of an AWD diff, or FF

    Little tidbits to keep in mind

    Higher power cars tend to want lower rear camber settings to start on tight corner exits, and less diff acceleration. Often they have to be set with extreme polarity between over and understeer to be driveable on throttle. The opposite of the above goes for smaller under powered cars.

    Running a higher ride height on nurburgring can add stability.

    Running an oval? Im not the greatest, but there should be a greater focus on stability, but closer to the edge of oversteer.

    Let me know how I did here.
     
  9. ChauncyMarsh

    ChauncyMarsh

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    287
  10. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Very interesting never saw this before. Hope the information comes to life.
     
  11. Vernon Hucks

    Vernon Hucks

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    1
    Does anyone have a tune list for individual cars
     
  12. Th3W1fe

    Th3W1fe

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    73
    I believe MINKIHL is currently providing the most tunes and his thread/updated individual car list can be found here:

    @Unbridledt. Good info man. I think i'm going to try a first tune of my Evo Gr.B Road Car (N500) tonight by using your guide as a start. I'll let you know how i get on. :)
     
    Unbridledt likes this.
  13. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Thank you, let me know how it works out or if you have any questions
     
  14. Th3W1fe

    Th3W1fe

    Messages:
    73
    I tested the Evo Gr.B Road Car (N500) last night on Dragon Trail using your formula as a base set up. (BoP on)
    I ran 08-10 laps first in just stock set up (only switching to racing hard tyres) to get a feel for the car and my eye in on the track and my best lap was a 1:51.387 with an optimal lap time of 1:50.899m

    I then tuned using your guide and hit a fastest lap of 1:48.889 (1:48.084 opt). A very encouraging base tune!
    I then got a bit excited and immediately swapped into my Gr4 Evo and applied your theory to it.......

    Up until then, my current best Gr4 Evo lap on Dragons Tail was 1:55.225. Applying your base tune to it i immediately hit a 1:53.590 (1:53.121 opt) but the most amazing thing about your guide/setup was the consistency in which i was now hitting my laps. Before, i really felt like had to fight the Evo and saw countless hot laps ruled out/ruined by penalties (something that had been costing me in online races) but with your tune the stability was like night & day. What also quickly became apparent was by how changing my driving style to be less aggressive on the brakes and better with the throttle control really increased my pace too. I think you LSD settings were the game changer for me and suddenly i could see how i could get the Evo's nose to turn in by lifting off the throttle. I then applied your LSD settings to my current fastest Evo tune and hit 1:51.555 (1:51.236 opt). :)

    Been interesting to see what the latest patch v1.05 and slight BoP increase does to my times now.
     
  15. nocdevon

    nocdevon

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    United States
    I've been playing GT since the first version on PlayStation. I have always had an interest in tuning, but would get so confused because tweeking one setting always seems to affect another, and another and another, so on and so forth. I began to really do a bunch of research in how actual race cars are tuned in regards to the settings that we have available to us in games like Forza and GT and although I began to understand lingo and how to interpret input from driving the car, I had no idea how to apply those ideas to a video game/simulation/arcade racer, so the confusion continues still to this day. I am starting, starting to understand what to change when the car feels like its on ice (some of that can be contributed to the Tyre model in game), and what to do when you want to correct over/understeer, when do I want over/understeer so on and so forth.
    To me, I think this is the most fascinating part of this game, this is where the game can get deep and although Polyphony simplified tuning/modding the cars, there is still an aspect of tuning that requires a LOT of thought and testing.
    For example, one tune on one car will not work for every track, I believe that is why they gave us tuning sheets for each car ( I think you get 11 per car ) so that you can build a tune for Dragons Tail and also have a separate tune for Nurburgring and again, it makes this game DEEP for people with an interest in tuning.
    I am looking forward to getting my T300RS wheel and OpenWheeler Advanced racing seat (just ordered the seat today), I am in the process of getting my hardwood floors of my office re-done, and once that is done I will move my PC/Desk/PS4/and OpenWheeler setup in there and begin streaming tuning videos to help others learn as much as I am learning.
    I would love to be a part of a tuning Garage team and I did sign up for the one in these forums but have not received an invite yet. Looking forward to learning as much as I can, and this guide has helped immensely.

    Thank you so much
     
    xBSxChadSpeed likes this.
  16. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    You guys are welcome, any other questions let me know! I should be sharing a setup or 2 sometime next week in gr4.
     
  17. eDirtyTati

    eDirtyTati

    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    United States
    This. Right. Here. :cheers:

    This is how you tune. It is much better than just picking up a Minkhil tune (or whoever the flavor is for that particular GT version) and trying to work with it. They may be good to start with as a base, but you will still need to tune further for your driving style and the track. And you will still be slow + mess that tune up if you don't understand what you are doing. The fastest drivers in the game understand how to tune. It took me years, from Gran Turismo 2 or 3 probably, to begin to get tuning in these games.

    You actually tune in very nearly the same exact order I do, and I still learned something. I like your base values and will definitely implement your approach to gear tuning myself.
     
    xBSxChadSpeed, Th3W1fe and Unbridledt like this.
  18. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

    Messages:
    20
    Thanks dirty. Spent alot of time tuning in gt4 and gt6. Theres room for improvement in the guide as some things I dont touch upon but there should be enough to get anyone started and moving forward.
     
  19. BeefJerky

    BeefJerky

    Messages:
    3
    Many thanks, this is exactly what I've been looking for.

    This is my first GT since GT4 as I had Xbox last gen and got into Forza instead. Just bought tuning setups in the marketplace there so never really learnt anything apart from adjusting gear ratios for different tracks.

    Seen as GT doesn't have a tuning setup marketplace (and I've got older and more interested) I've decided to try and delve in and learn but haven't really known where to start. This guide is exactly what I needed to get going and start enjoying the extra depth which tuning gives to the game.
     
    Unbridledt likes this.
  20. polizei

    polizei

    Messages:
    1,049
    Location:
    United States
    I got away from tuning in gt5 & 6 but I might play with it more since there is a smaller car selection and I will tend to use the same cars over and over.
     
  21. nocdevon

    nocdevon

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    United States
    I am seeing a lot of "tuning not allowed", go into lobbies and no tuning allowed, go into sport and no tuning allowed, race in any of the FIA sanctioned races and.... tuning not allowed. If tuning is "generally" not allowed why do they have that function in game???
     
    KepleroGT likes this.
  22. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

    Messages:
    20
    I think it is more of a remnant of when the gt series wasnt as accurate in its feeling of each specific car, and to account for different tire compounds being thrown in the equation.
     
  23. dabz343

    dabz343

    Messages:
    447
    Puzzling why this thread is not gaining traction. May have to do with the fact that Sport Mode seems to be focused on BoP/stock tunes. Regardless, setups are key to understanding the physics and has immense influence on driver evolution.

    Hey Terror, would you consider opening a lobby so those interested could experience tuning with you? Words only take us so far.
     
    JadedOlive and Unbridledt like this.
  24. Never2fast1

    Never2fast1

    Messages:
    539
    Location:
    United States
    This is perfect, I don't have a lot of time to play with tuning, but given a baseline to begin with is going to be very helpful. Every tenth of a second counts when racing.
     
  25. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Ill be on tomorrow dabz and ill post here when I tune. Ill be doing an 4c gr4 tomorrow sometime
     
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  26. nocdevon

    nocdevon

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    United States
    tuning is not allowed in any race except arcade mode, so why mess with it
     
  27. Never2fast1

    Never2fast1

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    539
    Location:
    United States
    They have had dailies with tuning in the past, I am guessing they will go back to it (at least I hope they do)
     
  28. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Wow they killed tuning for all sport mode races what a drag. Going to be doing a tuning session right now in an online lobby on kyoto
     
    JadedOlive likes this.
  29. Unbridledt

    Unbridledt

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    20
    Ill be hosting the lobby from now for 45 min to 1 hour
     
  30. dabz343

    dabz343

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    447
    I don't see your lobby Terror?