ITCC_Andrew
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Tuning; how much is too much?
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ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
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I've driven a few cars with stock suspension, that got out of shape (unsettled,) though.
And
about the chiropractor's thing.
And
about the chiropractor's thing.
- 331
- Iowa City
- FT Hotel Soap
Then you go out and total your base Impreza and get none of the thousands back you spent making it into a WRX because it was insured as the base model.
For the 3 grand +/- difference between the 2.5 and a WRX, its much more economical and practical to just get the WRX to start with for modding. Also, the 2.5's have open deck engines so they are relatively pointless, expensive, and unreliable when they are boosted.
ITCC_Andrew
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Next person to mention my Impreza as a "mistake," is immediately going on my ignore list. 🤬 off.
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Ypu started this line of conversation when you mentioned your mod list. Drop the attitude or the thread gets nuked.
This, personally, is the only problem with the whole thing. The 2.5RS is a very good, very underrated car. But the 4AT is a complete piece of whatever for track use. I've driven WRX-swapped Legacies with that that tranny, and they sucked. I've driven 300 horsepower STIs with that tranny and they sucked in the first two gears... which you will spend a lot of time in, on an autocross. A Ralliart Lancer with less power and the dual clutch kills it off the line and out of each corner. Give the Ralliart a better suspension and it wouldn't even be close.
The cost of swapping out to a manual transmission could buy you some great handling modifications. Personally, better to trade the car for a manual when the time comes to it, and transfer all your mods over, rather than cut up and ruin the car and its resale value. A car that came stock with the box will be less problematic than a jury-rigged manual swap.
No one is discouraging you from autocrossing or learning what you can about modification. We're just trying to help you get started right.
My first modified car was an engine swap with a 4AT. Big waste of money. A friend likewise had a 200hp MIVEC V6 Lancer, with a 4AT, from the FTO. Fantastic car, but the transmission was completely unsuited for track use, despite the INVECS manual selector.
This, personally, is the only problem with the whole thing. The 2.5RS is a very good, very underrated car. But the 4AT is a complete piece of whatever for track use. I've driven WRX-swapped Legacies with that that tranny, and they sucked. I've driven 300 horsepower STIs with that tranny and they sucked in the first two gears... which you will spend a lot of time in, on an autocross. A Ralliart Lancer with less power and the dual clutch kills it off the line and out of each corner. Give the Ralliart a better suspension and it wouldn't even be close.
The cost of swapping out to a manual transmission could buy you some great handling modifications. Personally, better to trade the car for a manual when the time comes to it, and transfer all your mods over, rather than cut up and ruin the car and its resale value. A car that came stock with the box will be less problematic than a jury-rigged manual swap.
No one is discouraging you from autocrossing or learning what you can about modification. We're just trying to help you get started right.
My first modified car was an engine swap with a 4AT. Big waste of money. A friend likewise had a 200hp MIVEC V6 Lancer, with a 4AT, from the FTO. Fantastic car, but the transmission was completely unsuited for track use, despite the INVECS manual selector.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I won't even mention your car, but I'll ask you something completely different. One thing that takes ttning too far, in my opinion, is not having the money to pay the bills. I guess that's pretty natural. I'm working for a bank, after all, and we've got countless customers who got into all sorts of expensive stuff - and got completely wrecked the second something went wrong.
If you're planning to drop a few thousand grand into a car, you'd better be asking yourself whether that should be your top priority and whether you can afford to do so even if your life changes. Unless you're planning to stay with your parents until your late 20s or early 30s. At the age of 19, I was fairly well off with a humble job. Could spend craploads of money every month - until I moved out. As soon as you've got to pay your own bills for rent, electricity, food, internet, phone, water, gas, whatever, you'll notice that the job you thought to be great isn't going to make you a rich man.
You know, you're not in a situation with any sort of economical responsibilities right now, which is great. Enjoy it while it lasts. But, for your own good, keep in mind that that's going to change. And at the age of 19, that time isn't too far away.
Which, then, gets us back to your car. Keep in mind that, if things don't go your way, the resale value of a heavily modified 2.5 will be considerably lower than a near-stock WRX. Just sayin'. I mean, all of that is pretty irrelevant if you can count on staying with your parents for another five years or so. Did the same, back then, and fell flat on my face. And it takes a huge amount of effort to dig yourself back out of that mess
Also, you should realise that the guys around here aren't disagreeing with you on the terms of which car to base your plans on because they want to diss you or anything. They're just trying to save you a lot of trouble (and money). You might want to consider what guys have to say that have hands-on experience with track cars and the like. You're better off not dismissing someone's advice if he's more knowledgable on a topic than you are. That really doesn't work out very well, 99% of the time.
- 27,257
- United Kingdom
This, one thousand times.
Having a car and tuning it if you have a half-decent job and live with your parents? Great. Now live independently, as you'll be doing at some stage. And paying for food, rent, insurance, bills and the rest of it. Now take a look at your tuning budget. Or even your fuel budget. Ah...
I'll tell you what sucks. Not earning enough to cover those overheads and be able to really drive anywhere thanks to spending every penny you have on living costs.
Actually, what sucks even more is my current situation: Not earning enough to own a car in the first place!
ITCC_Andrew
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Unless my plans are to use this car... For exactly what it is; transportation, AND an interesting way to make a name for myself.
What sort of mechanic doesn't have a project car?
What sort of mechanic doesn't have a project car?
- 9,295
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A mechanic who can't afford one.
See, I'm not trying to be an ass. All I'm trying to tell you is to double check whether doing this is a good decision. Just make sure that you're not doing something that's going to turn around to bite you in the butt in two years time.
- 3,211
- Brisbane
- Punknoodle_Nick
You'll soon learn mate. I think it's pretty clear you aren't going to listen to anyone here, so you'll just have to learn these things for yourself..
You have one car, and you think you can turn it in to a show car / track car gradually while using it as a daily and only working on it in the weekends. That is nonsense.
Go have a look in my thread for my GT-Four. You'll see how much is involved, how long things take. I have a work vehicle so I can quite happily pull the car off the road for long periods. My car hasn't been out of the garage in 2 months, by the way. The previous time I did work on it it was off the road for about the same amount of time. People can't do fabrication work in 3 days. You want something welded? They ain't open on weekends. Which means you have a half assembled car while you wait for a particular component.
If you try and rush, you end up with a crap result.
When you go to the extent of modification that is involved with building a show car or whatever, it takes planning, thought, and then when you pull it apart you think of another way, then you plan some more.
Your ambitions are extremely high, that's not a bad thing, except that you need to make sure it's realistic, and frankly turning an automatic Impreza wagon into a race car AND a show car is both pointless and unrealistic..
I know I said each to their own earlier, which is still true, but really what is the point in spending mega bucks on converting a car into something else you can go an buy without mucking around, will be worth more, and a lot better if you sunk the money in to the better one for starters?
I understand if it's because you like the shape - which is why I'm sticking to doing up my Four, but I didn't start with a lower model of Celica and try to turn it in to a GT-Four... That would be silly.
You have one car, and you think you can turn it in to a show car / track car gradually while using it as a daily and only working on it in the weekends. That is nonsense.
Go have a look in my thread for my GT-Four. You'll see how much is involved, how long things take. I have a work vehicle so I can quite happily pull the car off the road for long periods. My car hasn't been out of the garage in 2 months, by the way. The previous time I did work on it it was off the road for about the same amount of time. People can't do fabrication work in 3 days. You want something welded? They ain't open on weekends. Which means you have a half assembled car while you wait for a particular component.
If you try and rush, you end up with a crap result.
When you go to the extent of modification that is involved with building a show car or whatever, it takes planning, thought, and then when you pull it apart you think of another way, then you plan some more.
Your ambitions are extremely high, that's not a bad thing, except that you need to make sure it's realistic, and frankly turning an automatic Impreza wagon into a race car AND a show car is both pointless and unrealistic..
I know I said each to their own earlier, which is still true, but really what is the point in spending mega bucks on converting a car into something else you can go an buy without mucking around, will be worth more, and a lot better if you sunk the money in to the better one for starters?
I understand if it's because you like the shape - which is why I'm sticking to doing up my Four, but I didn't start with a lower model of Celica and try to turn it in to a GT-Four... That would be silly.
Ibonibo
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If you want to put an enormous amount in a car, this is the only way. The highest model possible.
Otherwise it just looks you hadn't had the money to begin with and gradually worked your way over, which will never be the same (in value and max performance). We all look the same way at 3-series wanna be M3, or GTST wanna be GTR
That wasn't adressed at mel, but this is:
If you seriously want to impress people with your skill, get an old rusty shell (you should find a nice exotic in Canada, maybe Euro, or JDM), built it up during 2 years and come out with a classic, having actually a real value afterwards, a real shower, as car and of your skill.
And you still would have you Sub. which you can do minor tweaks for fun.
^Do with that what you want. Sometimes people or companies even pay to get ideas pitch. This first one is free. Enjoy and I hope you will have fun with whatever you do and success.
(just also work a bit of your attitude, customers can be pissy too, and you explode once and your business is down, internet is a great way to learn to stay calm and train that skill)
I send you the invoice for the second one
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Rusty old shell projects hardly ever get finished. Two years is optimistic. I have friends and colleagues who start but sell the car before they're halfway through. Sad thing is, these are shop owners.
Saddest one has to be that Toyota 800 someone was doing near here. What a cool little car.
On the other hand, you could be doing something like a 510, which can do both show AND autocross...
As long as no insults are hurled at it. Let's keep within the spirit of the thread.
I have friends and colleagues who start but sell the car before they're halfway through. Sad thing is, these are shop owners.Saddest one has to be that Toyota 800 someone was doing near here. What a cool little car.
On the other hand, you could be doing something like a 510, which can do both show AND autocross...
As long as no insults are hurled at it. Let's keep within the spirit of the thread.
- 4,213
- Puerto Rico
- motortrend
The only thing I've done close to a project car is when my da and I took my mom's ex-corolla and tríes to fix it up as best as posible within a 1k budget. Between our lack Of time and paint dry, prep, polish etc. It took pretty much all summer, and the car was only used occasionally in that time frame. Now it's my dad's daily and it doesnt need a thing done but What I Am staying is that it does take a lot more than one thinks to do things to a project car. What you plan to do in a week can Turn into a month.
ND4SPD
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If you don't mind me asking what is your insurance premium on your 2.5RS or how much less is it compared to a similar WRX.
There really isn't a correct suspension preference, since everyone has their own opinions on that subject. When you start to find it uncomfortable or unpractical for everyday use would be my preferece.
ITCC_Andrew
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Well, since we're all in Wellington County, you can use your postal code. However, please, Corvette owner, and everyone who also owns a nice but expensive car, respect everyone else's price bracket... The WRX, with the even worse fuel mileage, etc., worse insurance costs... Is actually much more expensive.
Also, as I'm an avid reader of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine, I understand their "Concept of Diminishing Gains." That means, essentially, that everyone who has a WRX will only be able to tune a few more tenths, or a second or two. But, getting a cheaper car, and putting a suspension, etc, on it, gives us the chance to improve our times by a few seconds.
However, I also dislike the looks of the WRX, and a few other things...
But, yeah, sure, if I find a manual transmission 2.5RS wagon with no rust, and the very rare rear spoiler we just installed, I'll consider trading it. But, I doubt it, since I don't care, and I'm happy with my wagon.
Once again, back on topic, please. I understand that some of you want to help, but, making a WRX isn't a goal of mine. Not yet, and not really at all. I'd rather, honestly, get an '08 Ralliart Lancer, than a WRX. I'm not a big, huge Subaru fan. But, I found a good AWD car, with lots of space, performance potential, and good looks. So, who cares which car I got?
I could've gotten a Hyundai Accent, but, I didn't. It could've been worse.
What's wrong with putting Sparco Assetto Gara rims, Continental ExtremeContact DW tires, coilovers, and Brembos on a Subaru? Then, after that, the car is finished.
ITCC_Andrew
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Eric.
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You don't need Brembos. That just cut the cost of your plans in half. And about a 2.5RS somehow having more room for improvements than a WRX...No. Unless you count swapping a WRX or STI motor in. You can get more horsepower with just a full exhaust on the WRX than you can with putting $5000 into the 2.5 and keeping it naturally aspirated.
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Can't argue with that. People on GTP certainly love the idea...
That reminds me. I have a Beetle, don't I?
I've already decided that my next "project" car after the Beetle will be something which is already in good nick, which I can then play around with, rather than something I need to entirely restore. It's demoralizing owning a car you find interesting and being [insert high number of months here] away from using it.
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I've been looking at getting one myself, but I know I won't have time for it...
I am a fan of the de-scooping and de-winging of Rexes. But no point in getting two of the same car. When you get the manual, swap mods, and sell the auto. More money to work on the car.
I am a fan of the de-scooping and de-winging of Rexes. But no point in getting two of the same car. When you get the manual, swap mods, and sell the auto. More money to work on the car.
Ibonibo
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Can't argue with that. People on GTP certainly love the idea...
That reminds me. I have a Beetle, don't I?
I've already decided that my next "project" car after the Beetle will be something which is already in good nick, which I can then play around with, rather than something I need to entirely restore. It's demoralizing owning a car you find interesting and being [insert high number of months here] away from using it.
Yeah, my Volvo hasn't seen a wrench for 3 months. Just time is hard to get by sometimes and money ... pfff.
But I planed to have finished it in 5 years, so still some time left before pushing the ETA even further back
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I had my 635CSi for 6 years, had it road legal for a total of 6 months during that time.. (eventually it got nicked whilst it was off the road), a lot of the time it wasn't just de-moralizing, it made me feel guilty and sad! There is a tiny part of me that felt relief when it was stolen.
So I agree, next time round, I'm spending the money up front so I can enjoy the car for what it is, not have to learn to live with expense and have something I can't enjoy.
ITCC_Andrew
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Joey D
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Typically a manual transmission is more reliable than an automatic transmission, they are also cheaper to fix when they do break.
And I think the verdict is that if you're going to have your daily driver and race car be the same vehicle, then you need to be prepared to spend more money on fixing it and be prepared to be without a vehicle for extended periods of time when you end up breaking something on the track.
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Before this turns into yet another MT vs. AT thread, I think he was just refering to the Auto as a reliable daily driver to distinguish which car he meant. Imagine he'd specified it by colour instead.
ITCC_Andrew
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