Turbo lag fun!

  • Thread starter Thread starter aky141
  • 117 comments
  • 16,285 views
grog
Maybe you two can open a thread elswhere to debate the existance of turbo lag.

Another laggy car is the Nismo 400R, and most turbo cars older than the 90's have the peaky "old turbo feel".
Click to expand...

A good disscussion is a good discussion, don't worry it's not bothering anyone
 
KiroKai
Vertigo Race Car with high RPM turbocharger. No power when you take off, but once the power band kicks in... let's just say, it's pretty insane on the throttle.
Click to expand...

I never experienced turbo lag from that car
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
The other factors you are not counting in is the transmissions. The gear ratios are not by far correct in GT5 as a stock setting. And the other is you are not looking at the big picture. For example the Option Stream Z. The reason i keep mentioning this car is because it is the best example of it. But it is described in many examples and explanations of turbo lag
Click to expand...

Gearing doesn't impact lag, and what Toronado said is basically all that needs saying. The fact that the "lag" goes away after first gears show it's a powerband issue and that the R32 has zero lag, just like every other turbo car. You can see it in the Escudo video I posted. The car is geared to always be in the powerband. It behaves like a NA car, you'd never know it had turbos.
 
Exorcet
Gearing doesn't impact lag, and what Toronado said is basically all that needs saying. The fact that the "lag" goes away after first gears show it's a powerband issue and that the R32 has zero lag, just like every other turbo car. You can see it in the Escudo video I posted. The car is geared to always be in the powerband. It behaves like a NA car, you'd never know it had turbos.
Click to expand...

Sorry i never posted a video I passed out last night. I actually woke up about 15 minutes ago.

I didn't say gearing had anything really tired do with it. I am pretty amazed at how much you are fighting this. How you can't see that what at least Option Stream Z does is turbo lag. Which yes is only on take off because you don't have the turbo spooling. If you rev it up on launch which getting the turbo spooled up it won't have turbo lag at least not as bad. I mean the car was made that way hahaha and did the same thing in real life because of its turbo. If it didn't receive up to build boost it would do the same thing. The video Eric posted showed what you showed no turbo lag and that was the same in the game too. But you are in a high enough RPM to have the turbo spooled.

I am sorry that I am not wording this correctly which I haven't done. Resulting in you guys thinking I am saying the power ban explains this itself. Which isn't what I meant.


I just don't think you are familiar with the Option Stream Z at all to honestly sit there and say that isn't turbo lag. Which in the real life tuning of the car is pretty much self explanatory.


And found some things dating back to GT4 on GTP people even saying it is turbo lag (which I knew there was other places I had seen back then with this subject) https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60212

I mean come on.
 
Last edited:
Jaywalker
Turbo Lag Definition: The delay between pushing the accelerator and getting full power from a turbocharged engine. Turbo lag happens because turbochargers generally produce power at higher RPMs; flooring the accelerator at lower RPMs ends often results in turbo lag.

Source: http://cars.about.com/od/glossary/g/turbolag.htm
Click to expand...

So would you agree or disagree with what I have said so far? I am just using the Option Stream Z as a example right now.
 
"Boost Threshold vs. Turbo Lag

Turbo responsiveness is usually measured in two ways. The first is boost threshold. Boost threshold is the engine rpm point where the turbo begins producing effective boost pressure, at full throttle. Below the boost threshold point, the engine will usually feel a little mushy and unresponsive. Once the boost threshold is reached, the boost will rise toward peak boost and the engine will begin producing significantly more torque. A well designed wastegated street turbo system designed for high power output may have a boost threshold of around 2,500 to 3,000 rpm. Peak boost will then be produced by around 3,500 to 4,000 rpm, and should hold all the way to redline.

Turbo lag is sometimes confused with boost threshold. While turbo lag is also rpm dependent, it is more of a direct measurement of turbocharger response, as opposed to engine response. Turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to spool up from the moment the throttle is pressed to the moment maximum torque at that particular rpm is developed. Obviously, turbo lag widely varies based on engine rpm.


For example, if the boost threshold is 3,000 rpm, and you floor the throttle at 1,500 rpm in sixth gear, then turbo lag could be 20 seconds or more, as it will take a long time for the engine to accelerate, off boost, from 1,500 rpm to 3,000 rpm in sixth gear. Conversely, if the engine is at 5,000 rpm, and you floor the accelerator, it may only take .25 seconds for the turbo to spool up again.

Perhaps the best way to quantify turbo lag is the slight delay in maximum power delivery that occurs in between full throttle shifts, or when you floor the accelerator to pass someone on the highway. A properly designed turbo system can be both responsive and produce high levels of power, though it is not easy to achieve the right balance."

Source from : http://www.turbokart.com/turbochargedengines.htm

High A/R ratio and boost pressure usually are the primary cause of turbo lag.
 
Partly I guess, when the Evo reach the full boost threshold, there is not much lag anymore - the high gear used for accelerating and short power band will play role to give that slow/sluggish acceleration.

The time it took from spooling ( start to make boost ) until reaching full boost is what I would consider turbo lag. Accelerating from 1500 rpm in 6th gear will cause massive lag in turbo response, could be more than 10 seconds until the rpm build up to 4000rpm when the boost started to give the engine massive torque boost to accelerate the car harder. The moment the engine hits it's boost threshold rpm and going up to the redline, is what I would consider the peak power band, which is usually not much on Evos, maybe from 3000rpm/4000rpm to 7800rpm or less, really depend on the turbo size, A/R ratio, and boost pressure used.
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
I just don't think you are familiar with the Option Stream Z at all to honestly sit there and say that isn't turbo lag. Which in the real life tuning of the car is pretty much self explanatory.
Click to expand...

Let's make a distinction here. Nothing I've said applies to the real car. It's the GT5 version that lacks turbo lag.


And found some things dating back to GT4 on GTP people even saying it is turbo lag (which I knew there was other places I had seen back then with this subject) https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60212
Click to expand...

That's not really a great source, it would be like referring to this thread as proof that's there's lag in GT5.

aky141
I think full power is the wrong word?
I think it's pressure
Click to expand...

Yes. A turbo is basically the back half of a jet engine (which is a turbine). This means they're sort of like windmills. The engine produces high energy air that feeds the turbine. The turbine then puts this energy into the intake air to compress it. But the turbine needs to collect energy, or spool up, before it can output energy. The lag between engine exhaust air getting to the turbine and the point in time where the turbine is producing high pressure intake air is turbo lag.

Or, likening the turbo to a windmill, it's the time between the moment that the wind starts blowing over the windmill to the time where the windmill is spinning rapidly. The wind would be generated by the engine and its intensity depends on engine RPM initially. As the engine RPM's build the windmill's rotational speed builds up, but it lags behind the wind's intensity.
 
Exorcet
Let's make a distinction here. Nothing I've said applies to the real car. It's the GT5 version that lacks turbo lag.

That's not really a great source, it would be like referring to this thread as proof that's there's lag in GT5.
Click to expand...

Ok so basically you are stating that the real Option Stream Z has turbo lag in real life (which it does). Which what it does on take off in real life is the turbo lagging. And what it does in real life and on GT5 are almost identical (if i remember correctly when I had seen it GT5 makes it more drastic) you are stating that in real life it has turbo lag but on the game it isn't? Even though what it is doing on take off is the same in real life as in the game?

Do you get what I am saying? It is pretty much contradiction.


Also if know it wasn't a good source I was using it as a example
 
The Option Stream Z has the same launch characteristics in the game as it does in real life because it has the same power curve in the game as it does in real life.
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
Ok so basically you are stating that the real Option Stream Z has turbo lag in real life (which it does). Which what it does on take off in real life is the turbo lagging. And what it does in real life and on GT5 are almost identical (if i remember correctly when I had seen it GT5 makes it more drastic) you are stating that in real life it has turbo lag but on the game it isn't? Even though what it is doing on take off is the same in real life as in the game?

Do you get what I am saying? It is pretty much contradiction.
Click to expand...

See Toronado's post.

Looking at launch is not the best way to compare lag. Looking at a road coarse situation is much better. In GT5 the powerband displayed in the setting menu is always correct. This is wrong. With a turbo car, you actually have a range of possible hp values for a given RPM, because at a given engine RPM, the turbo RPM can be more than one value.

In GT5, if you use 100% throttle at 5000 RPM, and the in game power curve says you make 500 hp at 5000 RPM, you will make 500 hp no matter what.

In real life, with the same powerband, you will only make 500 hp at 5000 RPM if you've had the gas pedal pressed longer than the lag time of the turbo. If you were holding the engine idle at 4500 RPM, and then instantly went to full throttle, the engine might only produce 350 hp at 5000 RPM despite the maximum possible power being 500 hp.
 
Try any of the Nissan GT-R R35 road cars. Also, Mazda RX-8 Type S '07 from the Dealerships. The turbo lag is very apparent when you try high-RPM turbo kits on them.
 
=drifting24/7=
Try any of the Nissan GT-R R35 road cars. Also, Mazda RX-8 Type S '07 from the Dealerships. The turbo lag is very apparent when you try high-RPM turbo kits on them.
Click to expand...

Totally forgot about the R35
 
the turbo gives a car it's power... when you say it's the powerband and not the turbo. You're wrong. If the turbo was smaller the powerband would be lower. If the turbo was bigger the powerband would be higher. Smaller turbo means less boostlag which is in turn the lag on the power band.

Look at any dynosheet. A powerband is the power of the car which is given from various factors of tuning but most changes occur with the turbo.
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
So would you agree or disagree with what I have said so far? I am just using the Option Stream Z as a example right now.
Click to expand...

I agree with your points in general and also that gearing most certainly can cause lag. (Long gears mean that the turbo will take longer to spool up, so if you floor it at low rpm, it'll take a good while for the turbo to kick in.)

As for the Option, I can't comment, since I only ever drove it once or twice & that was ages ago. :)
 
Jaywalker
I agree with your points in general and also that gearing most certainly can cause lag. (Long gears mean that the turbo will take longer to spool up, so if you floor it at low rpm, it'll take a good while for the turbo to kick in.)

As for the Option, I can't comment, since I only ever drove it once or twice & that was ages ago. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah but wasn't what I meant totally. I mean that like i said before GT5 may not model it correctly (as in it is drastic or not as drastic) but you can correct the drastic of the lag through gear ratios. That's what I meant by the transmission.

I can actually send the thing to you. I just don't understand why (not saying you) a lot of people are fighting this with contradicting posts saying turbo lag isn't in GT5.

I mean try the standard Dodge Neon SRT-4. Roll at 1000 RPM with a stage 1 low end turbo then floor it watch the RPMs and how they climb. Then repeat that with the stage 3 high end turbo and watch how the RPMs climb. Tell me that isn't turbo lag
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
Yeah but wasn't what I meant totally. I mean that like i said before GT5 may not model it correctly (as in it is drastic or not as drastic) but you can correct the drastic of the lag through gear ratios. That's what I meant by the transmission.

I can actually send the thing to you. I just don't understand why (not saying you) a lot of people are fighting this with contradicting posts saying turbo lag isn't in GT5.

I mean try the standard Dodge Neon SRT-4. Roll at 1000 RPM with a stage 1 low end turbo then floor it watch the RPMs and how they climb. Then repeat that with the stage 3 high end turbo and watch how the RPMs climb. Tell me that isn't turbo lag
Click to expand...

What I meant by lag is the delay to reach positive boost or full boost pressure when applying full throttle from any rpm. Try that in any rpm in Dodge SRT4 car, any gear, see the throttle meter on HUD directly increase inline with the the boost pressure, there is almost no lag at all.

In real life, small displacement cars with big turbos and boost will hesitate and lag to increase boost pressure when given sudden full throttle position - even worse if the engine is not yet reaching boost threshold - and yes gearing and rpm position does affect the lag, but even with short gearing and optimum rpm, there will still be lag, even if in tenths of a second.

GT5 SRT4 example, high rpm turbo installed, everything else stock, 5h gear - 2000 rpm full throttle, the turbo can produce full boost with full throttle. From 1000 rpm to 2000rpm range, turbo does produce less boost ( a quarter less than full on HUD ). A high rpm turbo should only barely produce positive boost pressure on low rpm as the exhaust flow needed to spool the turbo is not yet enough. IMO - the engine might need to be in 2000rpm range to have 0psi boost pressure and then steadily increase in positive pressure before hitting full boost - say 1.5 BAR at 5500 rpm. That would be proper boost threshold and the lag when applying the throttle would be the turbo lag :D.

Pretty weird I think, the boost threshold is very low for a big turbo and boost, while lag is hardly noticeable. What we feel on this car accelerating sluggishly from low rpm in high gear is the engine power curve.

I may not be right, but please correct me if I am wrong.
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
I mean try the standard Dodge Neon SRT-4. Roll at 1000 RPM with a stage 1 low end turbo then floor it watch the RPMs and how they climb. Then repeat that with the stage 3 high end turbo and watch how the RPMs climb. Tell me that isn't turbo lag
Click to expand...

You're still making the same mistake. Engine RPM and gearing have nothing to do with lag. If you're bringing them up, you're mistaking the response of the powerband for lag.

Also, none of the posts arguing that GT5 lacks lag have been contradictory.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
What I meant by lag is the delay to reach positive boost or full boost pressure when applying full throttle from any rpm. Try that in any rpm in Dodge SRT4 car, any gear, see the throttle meter on HUD directly increase inline with the the boost pressure, there is almost no lag at all.

In real life, small displacement cars with big turbos and boost will hesitate and lag to increase boost pressure when given sudden full throttle position - even worse if the engine is not yet reaching boost threshold - and yes gearing and rpm position does affect the lag, but even with short gearing and optimum rpm, there will still be lag, even if in tenths of a second.

GT5 SRT4 example, high rpm turbo installed, everything else stock, 5h gear - 2000 rpm full throttle, the turbo can produce full boost with full throttle. From 1000 rpm to 2000rpm range, turbo does produce less boost ( a quarter less than full on HUD ). A high rpm turbo should only barely produce positive boost pressure on low rpm as the exhaust flow needed to spool the turbo is not yet enough. IMO - the engine might need to be in 2000rpm range to have 0psi boost pressure and then steadily increase in positive pressure before hitting full boost - say 1.5 BAR at 5500 rpm. That would be proper boost threshold and the lag when applying the throttle would be the turbo lag :D.

Pretty weird I think, the boost threshold is very low for a big turbo and boost, while lag is hardly noticeable. What we feel on this car accelerating sluggishly from low rpm in high gear is the engine power curve.

I may not be right, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

What you mean on" HUD"? If you are using the turbo gauge in the game as a reference then you need to just stop.
Exorcet
You're still making the same mistake. Engine RPM and gearing have nothing to do with lag. If you're bringing them up, you're mistaking the response of the powerband for lag.

Also, none of the posts arguing that GT5 lacks lag have been contradictory.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahaha how does engine rpm gave nothing to do with lag? I mean really dude. And explain to me how power ban doesn't matter for lag? Hummmm quite impossible for it not be be seen on a power ban. Did you not try what i said with the neon? If you did it should be clear as day.

And remember if you do. Don't sit there and put the car in the highest gear. Do it right. If you don't see it i guess you never will. I think you guys are still using the turbo gauge as a reference. Which once again is the most incorrect thing in GT5. If you don't understand why then you don't need to tell me if there is or isn't lag in GT5. I mean it's clear as day. I have offered proffer with those cars and still you deny it. I don't know what else to say to you.

Drift_Monkey
the turbo gives a car it's power... when you say it's the powerband and not the turbo. You're wrong. If the turbo was smaller the powerband would be lower. If the turbo was bigger the powerband would be higher. Smaller turbo means less boostlag which is in turn the lag on the power band.

Look at any dynosheet. A powerband is the power of the car which is given from various factors of tuning but most changes occur with the turbo.
Click to expand...

Correct. I just don't understand why they can't admit it
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
Hahahahahahaha how does engine rpm gave nothing to do with lag?
Click to expand...

It was explained here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7829326#post7829326

I mean really dude. And explain to me how power ban doesn't matter for lag?
Click to expand...
I did
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7829764#post7829764

Hummmm quite impossible for it not be be seen on a power ban.
Click to expand...
Actually by definition turbo lag can't be seen on the powerband. A dyno chart won't show lag at all.

Did you not try what i said with the neon? If you did it should be clear as day.
Click to expand...

I've been told the same thing before, it showed no lag. By the way I don't have my PS3 on hand at the moment.

And remember if you do. Don't sit there and put the car in the highest gear. Do it right. If you don't see it i guess you never will. I think you guys are still using the turbo gauge as a reference. Which once again is the most incorrect thing in GT5. If you don't understand why then you don't need to tell me if there is or isn't lag in GT5. I mean it's clear as day. I have offered proffer with those cars and still you deny it. I don't know what else to say to you.
Click to expand...
I'll say again, no one has brought up the gauge except you, so I don't think anyone is basing the argument on the gauge.


Correct. I just don't understand why they can't admit it
Click to expand...

He's wrong. Think about for a second, using logic like that you could apply turbo lag to a NA car, which makes no sense.

attachment.php


If you want to insist that lag has to do with RPM, the S2000 has turbo lag.
 

Latest Posts

Back