Turbo lag fun!

[Lock2Lock]

It was explained here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7829326#post7829326

I did
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7829764#post7829764

Actually by definition turbo lag can't be seen on the powerband. A dyno chart won't show lag at all.

I've been told the same thing before, it showed no lag. By the way I don't have my PS3 on hand at the moment.

I'll say again, no one has brought up the gauge except you, so I don't think anyone is basing the argument on the gauge.

He's wrong. Think about for a second, using logic like that you could apply turbo lag to a NA car, which makes no sense.

If you want to insist that lag has to do with RPM, the S2000 has turbo lag.

Your still contradicting yourself.

And go try the neon later for yourself. Just do it bro. I have no idea how to word this any better.

And above when i mentioned the gauge again. I was referring to this post

What I meant by lag is the delay to reach positive boost or full boost pressure when applying full throttle from any rpm. Try that in any rpm in Dodge SRT4 car, any gear, see the throttle meter on HUD directly increase inline with the the boost pressure, there is almost no lag at all.

In real life, small displacement cars with big turbos and boost will hesitate and lag to increase boost pressure when given sudden full throttle position - even worse if the engine is not yet reaching boost threshold - and yes gearing and rpm position does affect the lag, but even with short gearing and optimum rpm, there will still be lag, even if in tenths of a second.

GT5 SRT4 example, high rpm turbo installed, everything else stock, 5h gear - 2000 rpm full throttle, the turbo can produce full boost with full throttle. From 1000 rpm to 2000rpm range, turbo does produce less boost ( a quarter less than full on HUD ). A high rpm turbo should only barely produce positive boost pressure on low rpm as the exhaust flow needed to spool the turbo is not yet enough. IMO - the engine might need to be in 2000rpm range to have 0psi boost pressure and then steadily increase in positive pressure before hitting full boost - say 1.5 BAR at 5500 rpm. That would be proper boost threshold and the lag when applying the throttle would be the turbo lag .

Pretty weird I think, the boost threshold is very low for a big turbo and boost, while lag is hardly noticeable. What we feel on this car accelerating sluggishly from low rpm in high gear is the engine power curve.

I may not be right, but please correct me if I am wrong.

The gauge or turbo meter in the game is in no way accurate.


But anyway if you try that with the neon it is clear as day. Like i said before it is on select cars. It may be not totally correct as in how long it takes which as I said before the Option Stream Z. I mean i just don't understand how how you can't see it. It is clear as day.

It can be seen on a dyno chart. What you said about a N/A car's dyno chart is irrelevant because once again it doesn't have a turbo. I mean for real dude I am just probably going to stop explaining the same thing over and over again and watching you sit there denying it.

 

[Exorcet]

Your still contradicting yourself.

Could you explain where?

And go try the neon later for yourself. Just do it bro. I have no idea how to word this any better.

I've tried it already though. And when I said I don't have my PS3 available, I don't mean for a couple of days, maybe a month.

And above when i mentioned the gauge again. I was referring to this post

Fair enough.

It may be not totally correct as in how long it takes which as I said before the Option Stream Z. I mean i just don't understand how how you can't see it. It is clear as day.

It's because there is a big difference between turbo lag and a peaky power curve. I can see that difference, and because of that it's clear to me that turbo lag does not exist in GT.

It can be seen on a dyno chart.

How can you see a time delay in engine power on the dyno? The dyno shows the maximum power across the RPM range. The dyno provides no info on what happens when the engine is running less than flat out, and that's the only place turbo lag comes into play.

What you said about a N/A car's dyno chart is irrelevant because once again it doesn't have a turbo.

It is relevant because according to what how you've defined turbo lag, the S2000 has turbo lag.

What differentiates the S2000 from those FI cars?

I mean for real dude I am just probably going to stop explaining the same thing over and over again and watching you sit there denying it.

I could just say the same thing, but I'm trying to be productive.

 

[Maccer_42]

There is no turbo lag in GT5, It's already been explained here.

That's not what turbo lag is. Turbo lag is the delay between pressing the throttle and getting power when you are already in the section of the power band where the turbo is designed to deliver power.


The minimum RPM required to activate the turbo is something else entirely.

With turbo cars in this game when you are in the power band if you let on and off the throttle the turbo kicks in instantly, there is no delay or spool up time before you get power, it's like a switch, just on and off.

All this game has is a few turbo cars with very high and narrow power bands which people like to floor at 2000rpm and wait 30 seconds until they reach the power band and call it "lag". But it isn't. It's just an engine perfoming poorly before it reaches the efficient part of it's powerband.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Could you explain where?

I've tried it already though. And when I said I don't have my PS3 available, I don't mean for a couple of days, maybe a month.

Fair enough.

It's because there is a big difference between turbo lag and a peaky power curve. I can see that difference, and because of that it's clear to me that turbo lag does not exist in GT.

How can you see a time delay in engine power on the dyno? The dyno shows the maximum power across the RPM range. The dyno provides no info on what happens when the engine is running less than flat out, and that's the only place turbo lag comes into play.

It is relevant because according to what how you've defined turbo lag, the S2000 has turbo lag.

What differentiates the S2000 from those FI cars?

I could just say the same thing, but I'm trying to be productive.

I am sorry if it seems like I am being rude. That isn't my intention. I guess what I mean is i don't have the right wording in the subject to explain properly. Reason why i said that.

I do agree that it isn't modeled correctly. But it is there. I went through this before with another subject which was torque steer in GT5. Which I proved that there was torque steer but it was no way correct. It was the same on every RWD car.

I am about to head out. And i am leaving my phone here to charge and when i come back I will record a few things to further explain what I am talking about. Also sorry i didn't know you didn't have your PS3 sorry for telling you to try something that you can't actually try at the moment. Anyway i am sorry if I am coming off in a rude way. Not trying to but once again wording probably makes it look that way.

Anyway i will be back later tonight I set up a few things to show as a example..

There is no turbo lag in GT5, It's already been explained here.

With turbo cars in this game when you are in the power band if you let on and off the throttle the turbo kicks in instantly, there is no delay or spool up time before you get power, it's like a switch, just on and off.

All this game has is a few turbo cars with very high and narrow power bands.

Drive the Option Stream Z and do that a few times around 3000-4000 RPM and say that again

 

[Maccer_42]

Drive the Option Stream Z and do that a few times around 3000-4000 RPM and say that again

I just did, and have driven the Option Stream Z many times before, all I experience is an engine strugling to perform, slowly buidling RPM's before it reaches it's peak power band.

Why dont you try it yourself and it and blip the throttle on and off between 6000 - 7000 RPM where peak of the power band is and tell me, do you experiance any lag from the turbo to make power each time you get back on the throttle? Cause I don't, it happends instantly.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I just did, and have driven the Option Stream Z many times before, all I experience is an engine strugling to perform, slowly buidling RPM's before it reaches it's peak power band.

Why dont you try it yourself and it and blip the throttle on and off between 6000 - 7000 RPM where peak of the power band is and tell me, do you experiance any lag from the turbo to make power each time you get back on the throttle? Cause I don't, it happends instantly.

I have tried it. It is one of my favorite cars. Like i told him that in GT5 it isn't modeled correctly it is over dramatic with the Option Stream Z. But it is turbo lag. At the RPM you are talking about is where it isn't modeled correctly I had said that before.

The Option Stream Z was notorious for this. It is a 800hp with a huge single turbo. And it does the same thing on take off in real life as it does in the game. Might be over dramatic but it is in fact turbo lag

 

[Samus]

You never proved there was torque steer.

 

[Lock2Lock]

You never proved there was torque steer.

SimonK let's not go there again. You know as well as I do. I proved there was torque steer but it was in no way close to real life. So it is there but modeled incorrectly (as agreed with scaff after someone came online to demonstrate)


Anyway i will be back later

 

[Maccer_42]

It seems to me what you belive you are experiencing with turbo lag is not turbo lag at all, it is called boost threshold.

Flooring the throtttle at a low RPM and waiting for the the RPM's to build into the peak of the powerband is not turbo lag, if a turbo is desgined to be capable of making peak boost pressure at lets say 6000rpm if you floor it at 3000rpm it's not going to make any boost. This is what "boost threshold" is I belive, so it may feel like "lag" in the sence you will wait for the RPM's to build until you start getting surge of power and boost but all it is, is just an engine perfoming outside of it's efficient power band.

Turbo lag is time it takes for a turbo to spool to full boost once past the boost threshold.

For example you are at half throttle at 6000rpm, the turbo is capable of making full boost pressure at this RPM range. You then floor it but there is a slight delay from when you floor it until you get full boost.

This doesn't happen in GT5. If you floor the throttle in the RPM range where a turbo can make full boost, it will do so instantly, no lag, no delay.

EDIt: Didn't notice but Ridox2JZGTE already posted all of this on the last page but better worded.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

There is no turbo lag in GT5, It's already been explained here.



With turbo cars in this game when you are in the power band if you let on and off the throttle the turbo kicks in instantly, there is no delay or spool up time before you get power, it's like a switch, just on and off.

All this game has is a few turbo cars with very high and narrow power bands which people like to floor at 2000rpm and wait 30 seconds until they reach the power band and call it "lag". But it isn't. It's just an engine perfoming poorly before it reaches the efficient part of it's powerband.

This is because the game does not accurately model the spooling of the turbo. The spooling of the turbo and the rpms are relatively linear. It will go up no matter where I am on the rpms. BUT, The fact that a high rpm turbo in the game takes more time to build peak boost then it is the game's way or algorithm to show that the large turbo will spool slower. There is turbo lag but it cannot be tested accurately through the game.

He's wrong. Think about for a second, using logic like that you could apply turbo lag to a NA car, which makes no sense.

If you want to insist that lag has to do with RPM, the S2000 has turbo lag.

When you look at the explanations that narrowly you will come up with absurd suggestions. That is without a doubt powerband peak at high rpms. Put a .71 A/R ratio turbo like a gt42 then watch it increase the top end while still being low on the bottom. Hondas have no low end torque so adding a larger turbo is just going to make things worse.

Vtec... all the turbo lag you need, without the turbo.

 

[GTracer98]

It seems to me what you belive you are experiencing with turbo lag is not turbo lag at all, it is called boost threshold.

Flooring the throtttle at a low RPM and waiting for the the RPM's to build into the peak of the powerband is not turbo lag, if a turbo is desgined to be capable of making peak boost pressure at lets say 6000rpm if you floor it at 3000rpm it's not going to make any boost. This is what "boost threshold" is I belive, so it may feel like "lag" in the sence you will wait for the RPM's to build until you start getting surge of power and boost but all it is, is just an engine perfoming outside of it's efficient power band.

Turbo lag is time it takes for a turbo to spool to full boost once past the boost threshold.

For example you are at half throttle at 6000rpm, the turbo is capable of making full boost pressure at this RPM range. You then floor it but there is a slight delay from when you floor it until you get full boost.

This doesn't happen in GT5. If you floor the throttle in the RPM range where a turbo can make full boost, it will do so instantly, no lag, no delay.

Well said! A good explanation to everyone who misunderstands these two things. (I did too before I came in this thread)

 

[Tornado]

Going on from this:

He's wrong. Think about for a second, using logic like that you could apply turbo lag to a NA car, which makes no sense.

If you want to insist that lag has to do with RPM, the S2000 has turbo lag.

As I said earlier, people absolutely said things like this back in the GT4 days. "The S2000 has turbo lag." "The Peugeot 905 has turbo lag." "The Chaparral 2J has turbo lag." Just to show how rare it is for people to understand what turbo lag actually is.

It can be seen on a dyno chart. What you said about a N/A car's dyno chart is irrelevant because once again it doesn't have a turbo. I mean for real dude I am just probably going to stop explaining the same thing over and over again and watching you sit there denying it.

This is a dyno chart from a modified Ford Mustang II with a 1985 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe engine swapped into it (which was notorious for turbo lag before Ford redesigned it somewhat in 1987, but at the same time made the majority of its torque early in the rev range):

Where is the turbo lag on it?

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Going on from this:



As I said earlier, people absolutely said things like this back in the GT4 days. "The S2000 has turbo lag." "The Peugeot 905 has turbo lag." "The Chaparral 2J has turbo lag." Just to show how rare it is for people to understand what turbo lag actually is.





This is a dyno chart from a modified Ford Mustang II with a 1985 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe engine swapped into it (which was notorious for turbo lag before Ford redesigned it somewhat in 1987, but at the same time made the majority of its torque early in the rev range):

Where is the turbo lag on it?

I promise you that car has no turbo lag if the torque is low down. When a car relies on forced induction to get it's power then you can say it lags. It's important to know on every car what gives it it's power (large displacement, small displacement/high compression, turbo or supercharger). You can't compare any other factor as being the same as turbo lag. Turbo lag comes from the turbo. The high torque band can come from all of these things.

The fact of the matter is. The option stream takes very long to spool up. In the game you wouldn't get the accurate responses of the turbo but it's as close as they can get to simulating it.

 

[Tornado]

I promise you that car has no turbo lag if the torque is low down.

Here's the thing: I've driven a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (I think it was an '83). One of my friends in high school had one. I can promise you that it does have turbo lag. Stomp on the throttle and there was a slight hesitation before the car took off regardless of where you were in the rev range.

The fact of the matter is. The option stream takes very long to spool up. In the game you wouldn't get the accurate responses of the turbo but it's as close as they can get to simulating it.

The fact of the matter is that the amount of time it takes for a car to run through the rev range is not what turbo lag is.

 

[BongRipz]

If they've never driven a turbo car in RL they arnt going to understand. I've driven a few including a Thunderbird like the one mentioned and its quite abit different then what you see in GT. Its one of the things thats always bothered me about GT and why I try to stick to NA cars whenever possible.

I took the Option Stream Z out again since its been so long and I see why people think that its turbo lag but if you let off the throttle and get back in it theres no lag like there should be.

 

[Exorcet]

Let's try this, taking the Ford power curve above, let's show what would happen if the car was NA vs what would happen if it was FI. Note that as I said before, you can't see turbo lag on the powerband, but you can see it in the engine response, so if we ignore the X axis (RPM) and pretend that it's actually time, we can use the image to show turbo lag.

The dyno results show the maximum power that the engine can make at any RPM. There is a blue dot at the 3500 RPM tick (the RPM is just a reference, remember the X axis is now time, not RPM). This dot is the point in time where the pedal was pressed down all the way.

The thin blue line is the power vs time for a laggy turbo engine. The thick blue line is power vs time for a NA engine. What you can see is that despite the pedal being pressed at the same time, the NA engine almost instantly goes to full power and the turbo takes some time to get up to full power. In GT, all engines behave like the thick line, meaning there is no turbo lag.

Also, it does not matter where in the RPM's you press the pedal. Even at peak power, the turbo will still lag, because RPM does not matter when it comes to lag.


EDIT and here is the Option Z

Orange is the powerband. The thin blue line is what should happen in real life (lag). The thick line is what happens in GT5 (no lag).

 

[Lock2Lock]

No it's not. It doesn't take 4 seconds for the turbo in any car to spool up. When the car has the sudden surge of acceleration at around 25 MPH, that's for no other reason than the HPA has a really peaky torque curve and that 4k RPM is where it starts; as seen by the fact that it only happens in 1st gear from a dead launch and every other gear has instant throttle response.

Hummmm i am 100% you are incorrect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVt1IjIdLxY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Clarkson is wrong, as he often is.
What he is describing is the high boost threshold.

Please explain to me how 2500RPM is a high boost threshold.... Wait it isn't..
Nuff said

single turbo engines it's the amount of time it takes for the air to get rammed into the engine.

"Tubro lag" isn't technically the time it takes air to get into the engine. It is the amount of time it takes the engine to spin the turbo to full boost after going full throttle.

And guys gearing does affect turbo lag. In real life and in the game.


Here's a test of "Tubro Lag" showing it is gearing dependant and that the boost threshold (which is mid way on the gauge) does NOT change because it starts building boost at the same RPM (which was aproximity at 2500RPM may vary a few hundred RPM). But it clearly it does take longer to spool up in 4th Gear than it does in 3rd Gear. Which this is the definition of turbo lag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0FlTJaHec&feature=youtube_gdata_player

P.S. Sorry the video took so long I am in the process of moving.

 

[Exorcet]

That doesn't look like lag, it looks like threshold. Like I said in the post above, GT5 is the thin blue line. Real life is the thick blue line.

A better video would have been a rolling start from 5000-6000 RPM when you're already past boost threshold. Also, what's the car?

 

[Tornado]

Hummmm i am 100% you are incorrect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVt1IjIdLxY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Please explain to me how 2500RPM is a high boost threshold.... Wait it isn't..
Nuff said

A 2500 RPM boost threshold is a hell of a lot higher on a car that is puttering at 1250 RPM in 6th than a car going at that RPM in 1st or 2nd because... well, duh. The gears are longer the higher gear you are in. 6th gear on an Evo VIII MR is nearly 5 times longer than 1st gear, so it would take 5 times as long to get to the boost threshold of the engine. Your own video shows this below.

Plus, the FQ400's peak torque is all the way up at 5500 RPM as opposed to the 3500 RPM peak of the regular Evo VIII. Or, put another way:

I have the Evolution MR which,like the FQ400, comes with a six speed. I tried 30 mph in top gear and the engine was barely turning 1300 rpm. Boost doesn’t come in until at least another 1000 rpm and until that point you are driving a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine with low compression. It takes a while to get there and I don’t have the bigger turbocharger that they put on the FQ.

Here's a test of "Tubro Lag" showing it is gearing dependant and that the boost threshold (which is mid way on the gauge) does NOT change because it starts building boost at the same RPM (which was aproximity at 2500RPM may vary a few hundred RPM). But it clearly it does take longer to spool up in 4th Gear than it does in 3rd Gear. Which this is the definition of turbo lag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD0FlTJaHec&feature=youtube_gdata_player

P.S. Sorry the video took so long I am in the process of moving.

All you showed was that acceleration in a higher gear is slower than in a lower gear, and that being completely out of the powerband exacerbates that problem because you are out of the powerband for longer. Which is true on all cars short of a Dodge Viper.


And you haven't answered this:

This is a dyno chart from a modified Ford Mustang II with a 1985 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe engine swapped into it (which was notorious for turbo lag before Ford redesigned it somewhat in 1987, but at the same time made the majority of its torque early in the rev range):

Where is the turbo lag on it?

 

[Lock2Lock]

That doesn't look like lag, it looks like threshold. Like I said in the post above, GT5 is the thin blue line. Real life is the thick blue line.

A better video would have been a rolling start from 5000-6000 RPM when you're already past boost threshold. Also, what's the car?

A better video would be? Really really. Pretty sure now you don't know what turbo lag is.

All you showed was that acceleration in a higher gear is slower than in a lower gear, and that being completely out of the powerband exacerbates that problem because you are out of the powerband for longer. Which is true on all cars short of a Dodge Viper.

And you haven't answered this:

Wrong i showed turbo lag. You can sit there in denial though. If you look at the gauge in the video. You can clearly see where the boost threshold is and when it is building boost and when it gets to peak boost. That's what I showed and that is turbo lag. I'll do it with another car later and put a video up.


So which one of you actually watched the video by the way. Only shows one view on the video should be at least 2

 

[Exorcet]

Pretty sure now you don't know what turbo lag is.

That's my line. You have lag confused with threshold, because you haven't shown anything related to lag and none of your explanations are actually about lag.

Can you respond to my post above the one where you posted the video. Lag is as I explained. GT5 does not simulate that. If you disagree, how about you correct my sketches there and show us what you think lag is.

Wrong i showed turbo lag. You can sit there in denial though. If you look at the gauge in the video.

You didn't show lag at all. Calling out about being in denial isn't helping your point. Why not answer Toronado's question, it'll be more helpful than the video.

You can clearly see where the boost threshold is and when it is building boost and when it gets to peak boost. That's what I showed and that is turbo lag. I'll do it with another car later and put a video up.

We don't want to see threshold because that isn't lag. We want lag, so put the car right in the meat of the powerband and then floor it. When it goes to full power instantly, you'll see there is no lag at all. Doing the same thing you did last time with a different car will just be a waste of time. I could do what you did with the 03 Viper SRT-10 (mostly because PD botched up the powerband, but this won't matter since only FI can have lag) and that's NA.

 

[Lock2Lock]

That's my line. You have lag confused with threshold, because you haven't shown anything related to lag and none of your explanations are actually about lag.

Can you respond to my post above the one where you posted the video. Lag is as I explained. GT5 does not simulate that. If you disagree, how about you correct my sketches there and show us what you think lag is.

You didn't show lag at all. Calling out about being in denial isn't helping your point. Why not answer Toronado's question, it'll be more helpful than the video.

We don't want to see threshold because that isn't lag. We want lag, so put the car right in the meat of the powerband and then floor it. When it goes to full power instantly, you'll see there is no lag at all. Doing the same thing you did last time with a different car will just be a waste of time. I could do what you did with the 03 Viper SRT-10 (mostly because PD botched up the powerband, but this won't matter since only FI can have lag) and that's NA.

How have I confused threshold with lag when threshold is when it STARTS to build boost and lag is the time it takes to develop full aka max aka peak boost. So yes you need to see threshold and peak boost. If you don't think it matters then i don't know what to tell you

If i am starting from a dead stop or rolling likening did isn't wrong it is still lag. Hahahaha


So before you said that the power band has nothing to do with lag and it doesn't show lag at all and also that gearing doesn't effect lag at all. Huuuummm i fail to understand false logic.


Also the point you are trying to make when you were messing with the Option Stream Z if you let off there and there is no lag in between those RPMs. Well that is because the turbo is technically still spooled

 

[Exorcet]

How have I confused threshold with lag when threshold is when it STARTS to build boost and lag is the time it takes to develop full aka max aka peak boost. So yes you need to see threshold and peak boost. If you don't think it matters then i don't know what to tell you

Well, there is one issue. Lag is the time it takes to develop peak boost, but not peak horsepower. You can have peak boost but only be producing 50% of maximum power because your revs are low. Lag happens at every RPM, so no you don't need to see threshold. You should take the car to peak power RPM, or about there and then floor it. They we can see (or not see) lag.

This is all explained in my sketches. Can you please tell me what you see in them.

If i am starting from a dead stop or rolling likening did isn't wrong it is still lag. Hahahaha

Yes, because lag happens at any RPM. However, since you are crossing the threshold it's not clear whether the engine response is from lag or threshold (well it is clear since GT5 has no lag, in real life it wouldn't be clear). What I'm basically asking you to do is remove threshold as a variable so we can focus on lag.

So before you said that the power band has nothing to do with lag

Correct.

and it doesn't show lag at all and also that gearing doesn't effect lag at all.

Correct.

Huuuummm i fail to understand false logic.

I changed the X axis from RPM to time in my sketches, which allows them to show lag. They aren't really powerband graphs anymore.

And if you're referring to Toronado's, you're the only claiming that RPM and lag is related, so you should be able to find that relationship on the graph.

Also the point you are trying to make when you were messing with the Option Stream Z if you let off there and there is no lag in between those RPMs. Well that is because the turbo is technically still spooled

Turbos release pressure when shifting, but OK let's say this one didn't. Go back to the Suzuki Escudo which has let off the gas completely to brake or corner. Where is the lag?

Also, please respond to my sketches. Where am I wrong?

 

[Lock2Lock]

Well, there is one issue. Lag is the time it takes to develop peak boost, but not peak horsepower. You can have peak boost but only be producing 50% of maximum power because your revs are low. Lag happens at every RPM, so no you don't need to see threshold. You should take the car to peak power RPM, or about there and then floor it. They we can see (or not see) lag

Yes, because lag happens at any RPM. However, since you are crossing the threshold it's not clear whether the engine response is from lag or threshold (well it is clear since GT5 has no lag, in real life it wouldn't be clear). What I'm basically asking you to do is remove threshold as a variable so we can focus on lag.

What i showed was the threshold and the lag in between it and peak boost. That's all I showed. That's Tubro lag.

 

[Tornado]

If you look at the gauge in the video.

I was given explicit instructions by you:

YAnyway the turbo gauge in the game is highly inaccurate. I mean the gauge is exactly the same in every stage turbo in each car. And doesn't fluctuate correctly for a basis on a stage turbo. The gauge ok for example shouldn't be all the way up in those cars when the boost really isn't there. I mean come on.

Every time I mention this or anyone else mentions this the first thing pops up is about the gauge showing boost is there. It has something to do when going 1/4th to full throttle the gauge is pretty much 100% inaccurate.

If you can't admit it besides the turbo gauge (which as stated before is not valid and in GT5 the turbo gauge its self is probably the most incorrect thing in the game) i don't know what to tell you

What you mean on" HUD"? If you are using the turbo gauge in the game as a reference then you need to just stop.

I think you guys are still using the turbo gauge as a reference. Which once again is the most incorrect thing in GT5

To ignore the gauge, since it apparently wasn't accurate. Which is fine, because I wasn't looking at it anyway because I don't need to see the gauge to determine lag, but it's very odd for you to be the one to bring it up multiple times for no other reason than to say it is wrong, and then rely on it later.

You can clearly see where the boost threshold is and when it is building boost and when it gets to peak boost

You don't need the boost guage to see that, so yes. I can clearly see the car reaching its boost threshold and power is building rapidly.

That's what I showed and that is turbo lag.

That is what you showed, but that is not turbo lag. Because, again, boost threshold and turbo lag are two different things.


And now, for the third time, please show the turbo lag on this dyno graph:

Since the engine in question was one that was well-known in real life for the amount of lag it had, it should be easy to point it out.

What i showed was the threshold and the lag in between it and peak boost. That's all I showed. That's Tubro lag.

That's not turbo lag. That's nothing more than the RPM range between the turbo starting to work and the engine achieving peak torque. You can have peak torque on a turbocharged engine before the turbocharger even activates if you have a sufficiently large engine, or an engine with a twincharger design.


And if you mean the amount of time between applying the throttle and the turbo reaching maximum speed after you've already reached the boost threshold, that is turbo lag, but your video did not show that.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I was given explicit instructions by you:

To ignore the gauge, since it apparently wasn't accurate. Which is fine, because I wasn't looking at it anyway because I don't need to see the gauge to determine lag, but it's very odd for you to be the one to bring it up multiple times for no other reason than to say it is wrong, and then rely on it later.

You don't need the boost guage to see that, so yes. I can clearly see the car reaching its boost threshold and power is building rapidly.

That is what you showed, but that is not turbo lag. Because, again, boost threshold and turbo lag are two different things.

And now, for the third time, please show the turbo lag on this dyno graph:

Since the engine in question was one that was well-known in real life for the amount of lag it had, it should be easy to point it out.

That's not turbo lag. That's nothing more than the RPM range between the turbo starting to work and the engine achieving peak torque. You can have peak torque on a turbocharged engine before the turbocharger even activates if you have a sufficiently large engine, or an engine with a twincharger design.

I know I did say that about the gauge. Well I was wrong about it being totally incorrect. Really the main problem with it is that it doesn't show numbered values.

I have nothing else to explain here so no i will not answer that graph.


So what you are saying now that in my video the fact that the turbo is going from the threshold (which is where it starts to build boost) then showing how the it climbs to peak boost isn't lag?

Hummmm ok then once again failing to see false logic.


And how i have to prove you wrong that turbo lag does show up on a dyno graph (which it does) is beyond me. No valid point on your part.

 

[Tornado]

And how i have to prove you wrong that turbo lag does show up on a dyno graph (which it does) is beyond me. No valid point on your part.

You don't need to prove me wrong. You just need to tell me where it is on a car known for suffering from turbo lag, since you claimed that you could.

 

[Lock2Lock]

You don't need to prove me wrong. You just need to tell me where it is on a car known for suffering from turbo lag, since you claimed that you could.

I claimed i can show turbo lag in the game. I didn't say anything about saying I could tell on any known car (hints the reason i have been ignoring that). I said the Option Stream Z was well known for Tubro lag because of what it was designed for. And what it has in the game is the closest to what it has in real life.


Also here's another video same rolling start. Then full throttle in one gear and showing threshold (when i go full throttle and it starts to built boost). You can clearly see the time it takes for it to reach peak boost (which is Tubro Lag).

Also I let off the throttle like the other guy wanted me to and let it drop in a lower RPM and notice the turbo have to spool a bit because it isn't spooling as fast (which is turbo lag).

Then i did the same thing again but in a higher RPM where the turbo is still spooled and shows no lag because the Tubro is spooled.

Here is that video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxRiGYaT98s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Samus]

You're making the same mistake Jeremy Clarkson did. That will happen in any car, including NA cars if you go full throttle in 4th gear out of the power band.

 

[BongRipz]

You're making the same mistake Jeremy Clarkson did. That will happen in any car, including NA cars if you go full throttle in 4th gear out of the power band.

This pretty much. I would say if you know anyone with a single turbo car ask them to take it for a spin, you would understand this alot more I think.