UK Motorway Ethics

[Danny]

Question that's annoyed me for a while.

Say, for example, there's so much traffic in the fast lane that it's slowing it all down. Is it then ok for me to undertake?

Theoretically of course.

 

[the Interceptor]

If it helps: the same question has been bugging me for a long time (related to the Autobahn, obviously), and I just found out that you actually may untertake in such a situation, but the traffic in the slow lane has to go at less than 60 km/h (38mph), and you may only overtake with the left lane speed plus 20 km/h (13 mph).

... might be similar for GB, no?

 

[Venari]

Yes, if the traffic in the outside lane is travelling at less than 70mph.

I'm not sure that's a legal interpretation, but if your lane is empty, you're allowed to travel at a speed up to the legal limit. If there are idiots in the outside lane, more fool them.

P.S. What is the source for your avatar?! (It might be obvious - everyone knows more than the reedy-voice scrote, but still - how specific is 'Macy Gray'?!)

 

[Kylehnat]

What is meant by "undertaking"?. I assume that since Europeans have some semblance of order on the expressway, it means overtaking in a "slower" lane? It's a free-for-all in the U.S. Any laws governing which lanes are used for what are blithely ignored and unenforced. A lot of places have a "keep right except to pass" law, but really, I don't think anyone (me included) could tell you what that actually means. I've never seen or heard about anyone getting a ticket it for it, either. Is everyone more picky across the pond?

 

[Duke]

I was just going to say - I wish I had the luxury of worrying about 'undertaking', but 80% of the drivers here have no idea what lane discipline even is.

People from North Carolina, in particular, ALL drive in the passing lane at the speed limit. I have no idea why.

 

[Venari]

Undertaking is passing on the left side (for those who drive on the left) and passing on the right side (for those who drive on the right.)

I loved driving in the US where what I'd term undertaking is allowed. My Orange Hertz Ford Mustang and I had a blast.

 

[Sureboss]

You lived stateside?

 

[Scaff]

While no specific law or part of the Highway code in the UK mentions undertaking and it therefore is not specifically prohibited, it is generally advised that you do not do it.

Traffic police don't like people doing it and people have been charged with driving without due care and/or dangerous driving because of undertaking manoeuvres (both offences can easily cover it).

Here we go

Dangerous driving.....

....aggressive driving (such as driving too close to the vehicle in front, persistent
inappropriate attempts to overtake, or cutting in after overtaking)

Source - http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/rd_death_manual_v2_2004_updated_19x04x04.pdf Page 73

and

Careless Driving...

...overtaking on the inside

Source - same as above - Page 75

Only do it if you absolutely have to, and make sure you do it with the utmost care and fully signal every part of it.

Regards

Scaff

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Only do it if you absolutely have to, and make sure you do it with the utmost care and fully signal every part of it.

Sounds like the exact opposite of the US

 

[Kylehnat]

While no specific law or part of the Highway code in the UK mentions undertaking and it therefore is not specifically prohibited, it is generally advised that you do not do it.

Traffic police don't like people doing it and people have been charged with driving without due care and/or dangerous driving because of undertaking manoeuvres (both offences can easily cover it).

That's what I figured. Unless you're really being a jackass on the road, American troopers only nick people for speeding.

People from North Carolina, in particular, ALL drive in the passing lane at the speed limit. I have no idea why.

Sounds like Washington drivers, whom I rate as the worst freeway drivers in the country (meaning that they suck most at it).

 

[Venari]

You lived stateside?

No. Holiday and hire car.

 

[daan]

Only do it if you absolutely have to, and make sure you do it with the utmost care and fully signal every part of it.

Would there be a difference between the following 2 scenarios? Both take part on a 2 lane dual carriageway, with the overtaking car not exceeding 70mph.

1 - You are in the right hand lane. There is a slower car in the outside lane ahead, with the inside lane clear. You indicate and move into the nearside lane. You proceed to undertake. You then indicate when clear and move back out.


2 - You are in the nearside lane. There is a slower car in the outside lane up ahead. You undertake. You continue along in the inside lane.


To me, the 2nd one is not as "bad" as the first one as you don't change lanes and you could argue that your lane is moving faster than his lane.

 

[Robin]

Question that's annoyed me for a while.

Say, for example, there's so much traffic in the fast lane that it's slowing it all down. Is it then ok for me to undertake?

Theoretically of course.

Yeah I do it all the time! Although you really have to be careful of people speeding down it because you have to get up to like at least 50mph from a stand still! I always make sure there is no one there before I pull out from a stationary lane to a clear one... Oh and signal for ages before you do it!

Although experts say staying in your lane will probably get you to your destination in the same amount of time than constantly changing lanes.

 

[ExigeEvan]

And what about when you get filtered down to 2 lanes.

1 argument is everyone should get to the continuing lane as soon as possible as its "polite to queue".

But efficiency dictates that the lane to be closed is used up untill the last possible moment and people should happily let cars filter in. But this shows a level of arrogance in my opinion.

 

[Scaff]

Would there be a difference between the following 2 scenarios? Both take part on a 2 lane dual carriageway, with the overtaking car not exceeding 70mph.

1 - You are in the right hand lane. There is a slower car in the outside lane ahead, with the inside lane clear. You indicate and move into the nearside lane. You proceed to undertake. You then indicate when clear and move back out.


2 - You are in the nearside lane. There is a slower car in the outside lane up ahead. You undertake. You continue along in the inside lane.


To me, the 2nd one is not as "bad" as the first one as you don't change lanes and you could argue that your lane is moving faster than his lane.

I would agree that the second is not as bad, however it would still technically still be considered at the minimum careless driving. Which I personally consider utterly mad, as most of the people who block the outside lane have almost zero lane discipline and no idea that other cars are on the road.

To be 100% clear, I do personally undertake when and if the situation warrants it, the main purpose of my post was to ensure all those from the UK are aware that you can get arrested and charged for it (many people are under the mistaken assumption that as its not specifically in the Highway code then its not a problem), so just be careful when doing it and try and make sure no traffic police are around.


Regards

Scaff

 

[the Interceptor]

I must confess I do undertake as well from time to time ... illegally undertake that is. The situation occurs when I drive home late, so the three lane Autobahn I use is almost free. Still, there is a significant number of people refusing to use the right lane, as the law in Germany states it. They drive in the middle lane all the time, don't ask me why.
So me coming up from behind, behaving correctly in using the right lane have to change from the right to the very left, pass the car, and then change to the very right again. And there were and will be moments in my life where I can't be bothered and just undertake those people on the right side.

And I've tried many things to signal them to use the right lane, but they only notice in about 1/10 of the cases. On another note, this "which lane to use" system does have advantages, but it also has obvious faults when people to not stick to it.

 

[daan]

To be 100% clear, I do personally undertake when and if the situation warrants it, the main purpose of my post was to ensure all those from the UK are aware that you can get arrested and charged for it

I do to, but I don't weave in and out, and I also know that you're not supposed to do it.

To me, the people that hog the outside lane are the ones that should be pulled over and fined.

 

[buickgnx88]

Do they usually have road construction over in the UK that filters traffic down a lane or two?

 

[Robin]

Do they usually have road construction over in the UK that filters traffic down a lane or two?

Do we ever! They close lanes for anything! even if theres like a little piece of plastic on the road they shut it down! I remember Clarksons rant about it! I suppose it better to be safe than sorry!

Robin

 

[buickgnx88]

Haha that blows! Reason I ask is when they filter down the traffic, do you usually get the yahoos that drive right up to the cones and force their way into traffic?

 

[Slicks]

I think that's a universally witnessed form of asshattery.

Although I don't typically do so, there was a period of eight months or so when I was commuting an hour each way. I turned into a bit of an ass on the road at times, and this was most commonly witnessed at one onramp, where I'd squeeze in at the last minute a few times a week. Thankfully, I've since moved and no longer have to face that intersection at peak times.

I don't know of any codes on undertaking here in British Columbia. I see the odd 'Keep Right except to pass' sign, but they go largely unnoticed. As a result, I undertake when appropriate. It seems that taxis, seniors, and tourists are the worst for blocking up the fast lane. But then again, where they block one lane, there's usually someone equally as slow to block the slow lane.

 

[DustDriver]

When i was in the uk for ukgtp8, i noiced almost everyone was driving on the right lane, although the other 2 lanes were near empty.
Let's just say that the guy that was driving doesn't have much patience

In the Netherlands and here in Belgium there are campaigns to promote 'Ritsen'. (in the Netherlands it's already more common than here in Belgium)

 

[TheCracker]

To me, the people that hog the outside lane are the ones that should be pulled over and fined.

I feel the same but can't help but imagine that most people who hog the outside lane do it because UK motorways are full of numpties who perpetually sit in the middle lane, forcing them out to the outside lane just so they can make half-decent progress.

 

[Danoff]

My (non-UK-based) opinion on this, having dealt with it a great deal yesterday, is that from an ethical/moral point of view, you should feel free to overtake in the slow lane (undertake) if the person you're passing is driving too slowly to be in the fast lane. But if that person is driving too slowly to be in the fast lane because they're backed up in traffic trying to get around a slow moving vehicle in the slow lane... then WAIT YOUR ******* TURN!!!

Sorry, pent up frustration from yesterday.

 

[Kylehnat]

California freeways = FAIL. It's surprising that more people aren't killed.

 

[Philly]

Sounds like Washington drivers, whom I rate as the worst freeway drivers in the country (meaning that they suck most at it).

It's pretty hard to enforce any 'undertaking' rule in the urban areas. There isn't much you can do about all five, full lanes of I-5 or both lanes of 405 where the left lane is full and the right about half as full but going slower. I guess 99 is the only road in the Seattle area where these rules could really apply.. But when there aren't many cars on the road, it does get pretty annoying the number of people who just cruise in whatever lane they feel like. Although often times the cars cruising in the left lane are the ones going 15 to 20 over in their SUV/lifted truck.

The amount of brake lights I see is ridiculous though. People are always braking and doing stupid stuff which we discovered was the cause of traffic jams. I was driving 405 once and it was just a solid line of cars, all close together all going 70 (unheard of, we would usually be going 40) and I was just placing bets as to when I would hit traffic.

Me? I try to follow the 'undertaking' rules. When the traffic is thin enough, I stick to the right lane unless I'm passing a car in the right lane. And if I'm not going much faster than the cars I'm passing, I'll always merge into the slower lane to let somebody pass. And I try to follow far enough back that I can keep a pretty steady speed behind the person in front of me hitting the gas then slamming on the brakes over and over again.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

While no specific law or part of the Highway code in the UK mentions undertaking and it therefore is not specifically prohibited, it is generally advised that you do not do it.

Traffic police don't like people doing it and people have been charged with driving without due care and/or dangerous driving because of undertaking manoeuvres (both offences can easily cover it).

Here we go


Source - http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/rd_death_manual_v2_2004_updated_19x04x04.pdf Page 73

and


Source - same as above - Page 75

Only do it if you absolutely have to, and make sure you do it with the utmost care and fully signal every part of it.

Regards

Scaff

Not actually true. The Highway Code discusses both lane etiquette (i.e. keep left you fetid moron), and undertaking, thus:

264

You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking.

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

The wording is quite specific, in that since neither paragraph uses the must/must not directive, instances are pretty much down to the discretion of the traffic officer. It would therefore theoretically be possible to counter "you, sir, drove dangerously by overtaking on the left" with "Yes, but officer, the person in front was not driving in the left lane. They were clearly not driving with due care and attention".

Note that in these circumstances, a gentle flash of the headlights is perfectly acceptable as you are complying with para 110:

110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

 

[Moglet]

This annoys me a lot as on my way home from work there are several right turns on the dual carriageway and people stay in the right lane for the entire length of the carriageway, no matter what speed they're doing. They trundle along at about 30-40mph, with a clear length of road ahead of them, in the right hand lane.

I will always move into the right hand lane first of all to see if they move to the left to let me past, if they don't then I indicate and pass them on the left. The worst thing is when you get two elderly drivers doing 30 side by side, neither moving ahead and holding up all of the traffic. In that case, a quick flash of the headlights is fine IMO. It seems to comply with para 110, I'm letting them know that I'm there. Along with the other 99 cars who are stuck behind them.

 

[Beerz]

Sometimes I wish my car had these really deadly laser beams insteads of "flashing lights"...

 

[mafia_boy]

Sometimes I wish my car had these really deadly laser beams insteads of "flashing lights"...

Now that's a good idea!! :tup:

If only they hadn't been just banned here in Sydney because some idiots want to blind pilots instead.......no offence but I don't want a 9/11 into the Harbour Bridge or Opera House because some moron thinks it's funny to play with people's lives up there.

Back to topic, here it is just like the USA, a free for all but you can be fined for incorrect lane changes here and things happening as a result of it (not taking due care). Everyone undertakes, the kerb lane becomes a semi-racetrack for hoons in 'hot' hatches sometimes because Mr & Mrs. F-Wit can't learn to move the hell over, and here it's worse.....the ones in the fast lane are usually 10-15km/h UNDER the speed limit, not even coming close to the signposted speed!!

Sometimes I wish it was legal for people like us to just do a PIT manouver on those drivers and send them into trees/poles/walls......ANYTHING that will eradicate these oxygen bandits from our roads!! And you get 3 a year, otherwise 3/4 of the road users would be killed from road rage!!