Unofficial GTP Top Gear Australia thread

[Paulie]

er....is that directed at me?

EDIT: Ohhh ok..it wasn't

I'm not sure about that.....they never say "claimed" when reeling off the stats and they have the resources to properly tell you what a full throttle start would be like in everyday conditions. Maybe it's the fact all the other manufacturer's claims are right. I dunno....'tis confusing.

Didn't they say the Clubsport R8 is good for 0-100 in under 5.0sec? I've never seen a media outlet match that claim of 4.9sec, they've come close (5.1sec I think is the closest I've seen), but never actually matched it. Pizzati must be a hell of a driver if that's the case.

 

[Boffin]

Didn't they say the Clubsport R8 is good for 0-100 in under 5.0sec? I've never seen a media outlet match that claim of 4.9sec, they've come close (5.1sec I think is the closest I've seen), but never actually matched it. Pizzati must be a hell of a driver if that's the case.

Well I'd think he is - Plus the munufacturers also underestimate their cars sometimes. I remember an article on Fifth gear (I know, I know) that featured the difference between acceleration times on a Porsche GT2 with launch control on and off. The tests were done in the wet and (now don't quote me on this) the launch control time got amazingly close to the stats given by Porsche and in the dry, would have beaten them. (at least I think that's how it went)

To sum up, it's noothing new. I've seen it happen - just I don't remember where

 

[Paulie]

Well I'd think he is - Plus the munufacturers also underestimate their cars sometimes. I remember an article on Fifth gear (I know, I know) that featured the difference between acceleration times on a Porsche GT2 with launch control on and off. The tests were done in the wet and (now don't quote me on this) the launch control time got amazingly close to the stats given by Porsche and in the dry, would have beaten them. (at least I think that's how it went)

To sum up, it's noothing new. I've seen it happen - just I don't remember where

Well maybe I was wrong about that part, hard to tell I guess, I was just going by what it seemed to me Top Gear normally does. (I can't remember exact moments or cars, but I'm sure I can remember Clarkson saying "Manufacturer say this car can do 0-60 in x.x sec and on to a top speed of xxxmph." But then if that's true then who's to say we should believe Caterham's times either? Really light cars are bad for wheelspin.

 

[Boffin]

Well maybe I was wrong about that part, hard to tell I guess, I was just going by what it seemed to me Top Gear normally does. (I can't remember exact moments or cars, but I'm sure I can remember Clarkson saying "Manufacturer say this car can do 0-60 in x.x sec and on to a top speed of xxxmph." But then if that's true then who's to say we should believe Caterham's times either? Really light cars are bad for wheelspin.

well even that's open to debate - yes there isn't as much weight pushing down on the tires, BUT you also have the fact that theres less of the car to move untill they gain traction. Whatever.

The acceleration debate is always going to be up in the air. For one thing, your never going to get the same times all the time. Air quality, air temp, gearbox temp, engine out put, ground moisture, tire temp, weight, the fact that some fat guy farted in Russia - it all plays part and in the real world, it often does. But taking a step back from it, does it matter? Yes there could be .2 of a second lost here and there, but in a car other than a purpose built dragster - it doesn't matter? Certainly not when racing beween the lights as it would be unoticable. And it's not like TGAU deliberatly said slower times to dumb the car down or anything, it's just how it comes. The times will always be different from what one website says to another - and that's before seeing if the hypothetical claims are real.

 

[Joey D]

Maybe TG AU like these Aussie cars because they actually are good......... The only praise he had for the MS8 was the straight line speed, which is still awesome btw, and its looks, which is subjective from person to person. (If you recall he didn't like the Walkinshaw scoop either, but all other Aussies love it). All you ever come to this thread to do is bag on Australian cars, do you have anything constructive to contribute at all?

I'm not here to bash on Australian cars, but I'm not going to be all lovey towards them when based on what I can see they aren't terribly good when compared to other cars in their class. I also think TGA ignores many faults of Australian cars that they would otherwise point out on a non-Australian car.

The Streamliner was awful, there is no way a car like that should handle that poorly. It has the wrong suspension set up and the wrong engine in it. One thing I am seeing from the show is that for whatever reason Australians seem to like V8's crammed in everything. Even with it being awful they still seemed to think it was a good car because it had a V8 and was Australian.

The T5 was better but like I said, the Caterham R500 is leagues ahead of it even if it cost slightly bit more. The R400 is more than likely better too. I'm not saying the T5 is a bad car, I'm saying that there are car better then it for a two seater track day vehicle. I'd like to see TGUK put it around their track to see how it compares. I know it won't be faster than the R500, but I would like to see how close it is.

 

[Paulie]

I found this quote from Tarmac Magazine May 2008 during a 4 way review of some cars, this was the MS8 Clubman though which is actually 200kg lighter.

The Elfin is a polar opposite to the trio of fourcylinders.

Grunt, grunt and brutal grunt, its V8 requires just 3500rpm and minimal wheelspin to allow the engine to use its reserves of... grunt.

Two-tenths faster to 60km/h than the Lotus, and a blistering 3.8 second sprint to 100km/h, it thumps along to record a stunning 12.3 ET at an incredible 181km/h.

Looks like they did an actual test and got 3.8sec. Also worth noting, Elfin doesn't quote performance figures on their website.



Edit:

I'm not here to brah on Australian cars, but I'm not going to be all lovey towards them when based on what I can see they aren't terribly good when compared to other cars in their class. I also think TGA ignores many faults of Australian cars that they would otherwise point out on a non-Australian car.

The Streamliner was awful,

Well the Commodore often compares quite well to its Euorpean counterparts and sometimes even better. (G8/SS vs 550i anyone?) The Elfins may not be as fast, we never said the Streamliner was (that much is obvious), but the Type 5 is quite good. Then the Falcon........that's never been tested against European or American cars but the F6 is better than that Clubsport R8 they tested. That just about sums up all Australian cars, so what was your beef with Aussie cars again?

 

[Boffin]

I found this quote from Tarmac Magazine May 2008 during a 4 way review of their cars, this was the MS8 Clubman though which is actually 200kg lighter.



Looks like they did an actual test and got 3.8sec. Also worth noting, Elfin doesn't quote performance figures on their website.

interesting. I mean I'm sure it can do it, but can it do it in everyday conditions? I think the only way to solve this is to buy a T5:idea:. Anyone care to donate to my just developed fund?

 

[Paulie]

interesting. I mean I'm sure it can do it, but can it do it in everyday conditions? I think the only way to solve this is to buy a T5:idea:. Anyone care to donate to my just developed fund?

No no, that was an MS8 Clubman, same body shape almost as the T5, but the 5.7L V8 inside. The Clubman is 200kg lighter than the Slipstreamer, but uglier and less spacious- cramped even- inside.

 

[Boffin]

The T5 was better but like I said, the Caterham R500 is leagues ahead of it even if it cost slightly bit more. The R400 is more than likely better too. I'm not saying the T5 is a bad car, I'm saying that there are car better then it for a two seater track day vehicle. I'd like to see TGUK put it around their track to see how it compares. I know it won't be faster than the R500, but I would like to see how close it is.

In what way? That's like saying an R8 is better than an RS6 and for the same price - well, yeah - if you want a supercar, but what if you want a wagon? It's an exagerated example, but the caterham and the T5 are built for different things. The caterham could totally have it on a track - but real world practicality? I'd have the T5 thanks.

 

[Joey D]

Well the Commodore often compares quite well to its Euorpean counterparts and sometimes even better. (G8/SS vs 550i anyone?) The Elfins may not be as fast, we never said the Streamliner was (that much is obvious), but the Type 5 is quite good. Then the Falcon........that's never been tested against European or American cars but the F6 is better than that Clubsport R8 they tested. That just about sums up all Australian cars, so what was your beef with Aussie cars again?

In some ways yes, the Pontiac G8 is better than the BMW 550, however the BMW is better made, more comfortable, has a better resale value, etc. and it should considering the price point of both cars. I thought it was ridiculous to compare them to be honest. People who are in the market for a BMW aren't going to look at a Pontiac.

I have nothing against Australian cars, it's just if they were truly as good as Australians said then they would be sold elsewhere outside of Australian because there would be a demand for them. GM tried the Pontiac G8 which didn't sell and was a bit problematic (heard quite a few reports about electrical systems frying). They aren't bad cars, they just aren't as awesome as the show makes them out to be.

In what way? That's like saying an R8 is better than an RS6 and for the same price - well, yeah - if you want a supercar, but what if you want a wagon? It's an exagerated example, but the caterham and the T5 are built for different things. The caterham could totally have it on a track - but real world practicality? I'd have the T5 thanks.

I'm talking about performance. The R500 does 0-60 in what? 2.8 seconds? That's amazingly quick, even most motorcycles can't do that. Plus I don't really think the T5 is that practical, sure it may be more practical but it still comes across as a track day vehicle.

 

[Boffin]

I'm talking about performance. The R500 does 0-60 in what? 2.8 seconds? That's amazingly quick, even most motorcycles can't do that. Plus I don't really think the T5 is that practical, sure it may be more practical but it still comes across as a track day vehicle.

Oh yeah, it's much better performace wise 👍 - but how often are you going to be able to belt it with the tail hanging out round a round-a-bout pulling 2na'arf G? On top of that, if you want to take it into work, can you imagine how hard those stop start traffic jams would be? The caterham would be better for about 5 days a year - tops.

 

[Paulie]

In some ways yes, the Pontiac G8 is better than the BMW 550, however the BMW is better made, more comfortable, has a better resale value, etc. and it should considering the price point of both cars. I thought it was ridiculous to compare them to be honest. People who are in the market for a BMW aren't going to look at a Pontiac.

I have nothing against Australian cars, it's just if they were truly as good as Australians said then they would be sold elsewhere outside of Australian because there would be a demand for them. GM tried the Pontiac G8 which didn't sell and was a bit problematic (heard quite a few reports about electrical systems frying). They aren't bad cars, they just aren't as awesome as the show makes them out to be.

If people who are looking to buy a 550i wouldn't consider a G8, then they're badge snobs plain and simple. (A G8 has more interior room than a 5 series too, which in my books makes it more comfortable). In case you hadn't noticed, the Commodore is sold in the UK, the Middle-East and North America and a large part of Asia. It doesn't sell in as large a volumes as you'd expect because less people are looking for large cars these days, not to mention that little crisis thing that accelerated GM's bankruptcy has sent worldwide car sales to a 40yr low.

Edit: Almost forgot, 2/3rds of Elfins are actually exported to UK according to Top Gear and I have no idea why the Falcon was never sent overseas.

 

[Joey D]

Oh yeah, it's much better performace wise 👍 - but how often are you going to be able to belt it with the tail hanging out round a round-a-bout pulling 2na'arf G? On top of that, if you want to take it into work, can you imagine how hard those stop start traffic jams would be? The caterham would be better for about 5 days a year - tops.

I think if you are buying a car like that you aren't going to drive it to and from work that often. It's going to be a toy you take to the track or drive on the weekends. A couple people have Caterhams around here and I rarely see them outside car shows and autox events. Every time I see one though I really want one, such an awesome little car.

If people who are looking to buy a 550i wouldn't consider a G8, then they're badge snobs plain and simple. (A G8 has more interior room than a 5 series too, which in my books makes it more comfortable). In case you hadn't noticed, the Commodore is sold in the UK, the Middle-East and North America and a large part of Asia. It doesn't sell in as large a volumes as you'd expect because less people are looking for large cars these days, not to mention that little crisis thing that accelerated GM's bankruptcy has sent worldwide car sales to a 40yr low.

Edit: Almost forgot, 2/3rds of Elfins are actually exported to UK according to Top Gear and I have no idea why the Falcon was never sent overseas.

Why? A BMW and a Pontiac are in two different market segments. One is a luxury car while the other is an average four door. The G8 isn't bad for what it is, but it shouldn't be compared to a car that cost tens of thousands of dollars more and is built for a different purpose. And leg room =! comfort. The Chevy Aveo has more room than my Cooper but it's by no means more comfortable. I'm talking seats, ride, etc. along with room.

And yes the Commodore is the only Australian car exported in any great numbers as far as I can tell currently. Other than that you guys have country specific models that I can't buy here in the states. If they were truly epic cars then you'd be able to get them anywhere, like BMW's or Mercedes. GM's financial crisis has nothing to do with this either since as far as I know Australian cars have never really been big export vehicles.

Once again I'm not saying Australian cars are bad, I just think they work better in Australia then elsewhere in the world.

 

[Jay]

I don't know how much a Viper is in Australia but it seems like that would be a better purchase over the MS8.

I certainly would prefer a Viper but when they were sold here (in GTS form years ago) they have a price tag of $287,000 AUD

(If you recall he didn't like the Walkinshaw scoop either, but all other Aussies love it).

Not this Aussie. Though I do like how it is there to link the car with the original VL Walky.


*EDIT* Wow this thread exploded and I missed this whole page

 

[Paulie]

And yes the Commodore is the only Australian car exported in any great numbers as far as I can tell currently. Other than that you guys have country specific models that I can't buy here in the states. If they were truly epic cars then you'd be able to get them anywhere, like BMW's or Mercedes. GM's financial crisis has nothing to do with this either since as far as I know Australian cars have never really been big export vehicles.

Once again I'm not saying Australian cars are bad, I just think they work better in Australia then elsewhere in the world.

Country specific models such as? The only 2 mass produced Australian cars in the world right now are the Commodore and Falcon, and the Commodore is going everywhere. Then again, maybe we're just selfish and want to keep our epic cars to ourselves. Last I checked exportability doesn't mean anything for an epic car either. We can't get a CTS-V in Australia, we can't get Vipers, or a Taurus SHO, or a Focus RS...........
But one thing you said holds very true IMO, Australian cars work better in the Australian market place, it's a whole different world down here (for the better ).

Edit: Does anyone agree with me they should do a USA vs AU Top Gear challenge? Taurus SHO vs XR6-T, and Commodore SV6 (with direct injection when that comes out in a couple of months) vs Cadillac CTS 3.6L RWD. USA would probably win by a fraction, but that Ford battle could be interesting.

 

[Boffin]

yeah, but I'd rather a TGAU vs TGUK challenge like the did with the Germans from D motor

 

[Paulie]

yeah, but I'd rather a TGAU vs TGUK challenge like the did with the Germans from D motor

Mmmm, yeah, I can see that happening actually. But they couldn't race the Stigs together, the Stig can't lose, they'd probably have to dramatise a tie if those 2 raced together. AU would have a secret advantage though, Wazza vs Captain Slow? Advantage AU
Clarkson vs Pizzati? Advantage AU probably, since Pizza boy is a driving instructor for Porsche and it's quite clear he can do more than powerslides.
Hammond vs Morrison? Well, Morrison did top that leaderboard in the bog standard car, and has a motorsport history, but so does Hammond- interesting.
Of course, the challenges would be outlandish anyway which throws all the driving skill out the window I guess.

Edit: You realise I meant that AU vs US challenge as just a normal style segment on the show, no different to any other car comparo right?

 

[Boffin]

Mmmm, yeah, I can see that happening actually. But they couldn't race the Stigs together, the Stig can't lose, they'd probably have to dramatise a tie if those 2 raced together. AU would have a secret advantage though, Wazza vs Captain Slow? Advantage AU
Clarkson vs Pizzati? Advantage AU probably, since Pizza boy is a driving instructor for Porsche and it's quite clear he can do more than powerslides.
Hammond vs Morrison? Well, Morrison did top that leaderboard in the bog standard car, and has a motorsport history, but so does Hammond- interesting.Of course, the challenges would be outlandish anyway which throws all the driving skill out the window I guess.

Edit: You realise I meant that AU vs US challenge as just a normal style segment on the show, no different to any other car comparo right?

Yes I did - and I would like two see a car head to head comparo between the AU and US.

Do you think that wazza would actually beat Cptn Slow? I mean, they're both pretty much down there, but Slow did the rally stage with the Finnish F1 racer, and he did that day at the track with jacky stewart in a TVR where he knocked off 20 seconds off his original laptime.

I thought Hammond had done only a 2CV race before that 24hours at Silverstone

Ok, Pizza hut has heaps of skills, but don't say it wouldn't be close. Jezza hung onto the back of Sebine Shmitz in that Mini race in UK v Germany for quite a long time. Plus he was doing all those 180 reverse, handbrake manouvres in the Fiesta vs 'vette in a shopping mall test. And he is quite partial to hanging the tail out in amazinly awesome drifts - more flowing and fast than what I've seen from Pizza hut. I think Pizza hut may have the egde, but it would be an epic race 👍

Indeed - we've stumbled on what could be qute a tasty showdown - if only they actually did it

 

[Paulie]

That episode was hilarious. Looking forward to see the unlimited GTR go balls out on the track next week (I hope they remove the limited time off the board completely).

 

[Joey D]

Not a bad episode.

I think the whole G8 segment just helped to prove how lame GM's marketing department is and how much GM has hurt their sporty perception among buyers. It's clear that Americans have grown used to big uninspiring FWD sedans for normal cars and that anyone who does want something sporty reaches for a German. I still think the G8 is better than the Charger though.

The Nissan 370Z is still horribly ugly but it's performance fairly remarkable. I still don't know if I'd want to own one though because for me Z cars will never be as cool as they were back when the 240Z was out. For the money I'll take the poorer performing old school sports car please.

The lawn mower thing was decent, but I wish they would have made more of a challenge out of it like Top Gear proper does it. It felt like a half-assed Monster Garage challenge to be honest.

I did like the musical instrument thing though and as always the old school car adverts are cool to see.

I'm looking forward to the 4x4 challenge next week, that should be pretty entertaining.

 

[Paulie]

Yeah, the lawn-mower idea was novel, but they don't go very in depth with their challenges like that one yet. How much do you think the headwind would have affected the 370Z's time?

 

[Joey D]

I can't imagine it affected it that much, the TGAU test track seems more suited towards handling rather than outright speed like the normal TG track goes for.

 

[Paulie]

I can't imagine it affected it that much, the TGAU test track seems more suited towards handling rather than outright speed like the normal TG track goes for.

In that case, I'm very proud of the Clubsports holding off that 370Z. Quite an accomplishment. And the sedan was an auto too. I hope they get an F6 in the Stig's hands soon, it ought to be a rocket.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Lovin' the new 370z. It has so many cues from the original 240z. Side profile, roof line, etc... I know the taillights/headlights take a bit of time to get used to (I hated them at first), but they really have grown on me. I always thought the 350z looked fat and bloated (nothing like the original, just another fatter z car), so I'm glad they are moving in the right direction.

The lawnmower thing was pretty stupid. Jezza never would have let that tiny lawnmower blade be fitted to that truck. He would have insisted on something much.... much bigger.

The G8 thing was a bit of a waste of time, especially considering it's gone the way of the dodo.

All together though, not a bad episode. Although, I'm not sure if they should let Morrison drive anymore. Worst wet track powerslides EVAR.

 

[Open Addict]

The problem I found with the musical intrument with car parts, they still used the trumpet mouthpiece.

I think that with the test drive, when they want to make the car go sideways, they should either let steve or the stig drive it. Definately morrison's slides in the wet were not crash hot, but he would get better with more practice. Remember this is only his 4th or 5th episode, and TV driving is a bit different to race driving, says "Hampster"

 

[Casio]

I don't know what the guys name is, but I had to turn it off when that guy who needs to shave was wearing that terrible black Mossimo V-Neck which made him look like a muzza.

 

[Paulie]

The problem I found with the musical intrument with car parts, they still used the trumpet mouthpiece.

No they didn't?

 

[Boffin]

No they didn't?

yes they did Both funnels (or whatever) were using them. I noticed them and Wazz couldn't have got such a clean note out of a funnel if it didn't have one.

 

[Paulie]

yes they did Both funnels (or whatever) were using them. I noticed them and Wazz couldn't have got such a clean note out of a funnel if it didn't have one.

Oh well, who cares really.......

 

[Boffin]

no one