Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Liquid, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    When a tyre or car bounces off the catch fencing you're standing behind, you'll be thankful it's there.

    Drivers in a top team are expected to perform at a top level though. Giovinazzi and Kubica are performing badly compared to their team mates, but because they're in a bad car it isn't that much of an issue as it is at the top. Gasly had time in a Toro Rosso to get up to speed with F1 and was supposed to be quick or at least consistent in the second Red Bull. Gasly was lapped by Verstappen twice on pure pace when he was battling for the lead. You should never be lapped by your team mate especially if you aren't involved in accidents or screwed over by something out of your control (other blue flags, pitstop mistakes). No, Gasly has botched his chance, has hit a wall too many times and was damaging the Red Bull brand. Verstappen might be driving out of his skin at the moment, but even Massa in 2012 and 13 when he had outstayed his welcome in a top team was able to keep the Ferrari near the pointy end of the grid most weeks. Gasly has been mired in the midfield too often and is not picking up the points that car should be picking up. If he had performed in Germany and Hungary like he did at Silverstone, he would still have the seat. But a crash in practice, a lockup at the T6 hairpin dropping him to last, followed by a crash with Albon in Germany and a dismal Hungarian Grand Prix where he only got ahead of 2 cars because Red Bull are great at pitstops and an anonymous pursuit of Sainz later and it was curtains.

    Interestingly, Gasly is leading Reddit's "Destructors Championship" which tries to quantify the amount of damage each driver has accumulated through the year through crashes, and he has been replaced by Albon, who is second on the list.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    Maybe, but that's a low probability scenario - I'm unlikely to be stood behind an obstructive catch fence if I can help it, and if I don't really have the choice, I'll probably have saved the money and not gone to the event. Photography is a good 50% of my enjoyment at being at a race, and Brands, specifically, has followed other circuits in making that harder. I also don't suppose the initial risk was any higher than in my travelling 2-3 hours to get to a circuit by car, and I doubt they've fully mitigated the risk of being track side either.
     
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  3. ro_har_

    ro_har_

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    So they decided to move up to the top the driver who according to the Destructors Championship is currently second, instead of someone (Kvyat) as he does have experience in Red Bull hand in 13th in the Destructors Championship, is just a tad stupid in my books, what I would have done was kept Albon in the Toro Rosso with Gasly and move Kvyat back up and just tell him to stay out of Verstappen's way but keep pace.
     
  4. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    It's a test for 2020. Red Bull know what Gasly and Kvyat can do in a Red Bull, they haven't had Albon in a Red Bull yet. At the end of the year they'll be able to compare the three. Kvyat was quick and nearly on pace with Ricciardo, his only issue was that he crashed too often. If Albon doesn't impress in these races then it'll be Kvyat in the Red Bull next season, but it is giving Albon a chance to show if he's ready or not.
     
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  5. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    So you saying I don't watch EVERY second of Le Mans and N24 every year then? That I don't see how the race evolves over time? Cool.:rolleyes:
     
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  6. MaxAttack

    MaxAttack

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    Don't lie, everybody poops, gotta miss some of it ^.^
     
  7. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    I don't drink in that 24 hour period to minimise compusary breaks. Hourly updates in the coverage give ample time for them anyway, so you don't miss a second of live coverage.
     
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  8. MaxAttack

    MaxAttack

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    Short of some Clockwork Orange type contraption, seems you're as close to 100% viewing as one can physically be.

    You should drink water, though, you know. Kidney stones ain't much fun ;)

    Sidenote: I unashamedly watch highlights and pretend I understand what happened. Although it was nice running the Spa stream just kind of in the background as I went about my day.
     
  9. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    I gave up watching 24 hour races without taking a break, either trackside or on TV. Usually I just felt that **** by the end of it it wasn't fun. I'll normally aim to catch about 18 hours worth, and I'll often catch 3-4 hours in the pub on Saturday night. If I'm trackside, I'll normally get a couple of hours kip before dawn, in whatever uncomfortable place I've managed to keep dry. Being trackside at night is awesome though. Visiting the Britcar 24 at Silverstone is one of the things that got me into live motorsport.
     
  10. Simmpa

    Simmpa

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    Vettel won´t take anymore titles and will retire either this or next year, if he stays in Ferrari for next year he will get beaten by Leclerc
     
  11. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    RE: Catch fencing...

    It's fun to say "I'd take the risk"...I think most of us would. You know who wouldn't? The owners of the circuit who'll get sued into the ground when a random spectator gets smeared by a wheel. Racing circuits are already struggling to stay in business most of the time, fighting noise complaints (yes, from people who moved nearby 20-50 years after the race circuit was founded...), etc. We know how shockingly litigious the world is today - no business/property owner in their right mind won't do all the stuff they need to do to avoid being bankrupted by legal action against them for an "unsafe" venue, etc.

    I don't think anyone likes catch fencing from an aesthetic point of view, but I'd rather see it in place than lose more tracks.
     
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  12. flamingchariot

    flamingchariot

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    I could go one further right there all american sports are a joke really ha ha.

    Thats your point of view and quite possibly you are a fan. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Sure it takes skill and concentration to race in a tight pack but going round and round and round and round oh sorry I fell asleep.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2019
  13. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk Premium

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    Indeed. Pretty much anyone who purchases or uses a ticket to an event has confirmed to the venue that they accept the risk, it's in the terms and conditions.

    This is partly why the circuits will have some kind of insurance agreements in place. It's not quite about being "unsafe", motorsport is dangerous - it's in the conditions you accept by attending a race, it's on the ticket, it's on signs on the fences --- when it comes to getting sued it's about negligence. With that in mind, IMHO it's more likely that fences go up to help keep unavoidable and ongoing insurance premiums down, rather than avert the risk of actually getting proven to be negligent via litigation, in the unlikely situation something goes wrong.

    Well I would agree, but that'd probably make me a bit of a hypocrite. I'm on record as saying if people want to support motorsport, to go to races and actually hand over money... rather than just watching it on TV and having an opinion on it... yet here we are, I'm not attending the BTCC finale at Brands this year, and I didn't go to DTM either... these decisions are in part because the new fences negatively impact the experience of spectating on the GP loop.

    I mean I know it's all inevitable... but I don't condone it, and I'd rather other options were considered.
     
  14. TheElbows

    TheElbows

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    But that's kinda my point. A racetrack cannot get insurance (or good enough insurance) without that stuff. Insurance companies aren't dumb. They inspect the tracks to determine the costs of that insurance, and if they're even willing to insure it in the first place (I doubt many, if any racetracks are financially stable enough to be self-insured). I think we're all aware of how insane the world is right now - even with insurance in place (or all the waivers in the world), lawsuits would still happen.

    I mean if you're in the UK you should be aware that more or less airshows are rapidly disappearing because that one guy cocked up and crashed his jet into that highway a few years back. Even outlandish, one-off accidents can have tremendous impacts on cultural hobbies/enjoyment.

    Even with all the waivers in the world, no track or motorsport would survive a car smearing a family across the park...it'd kill motorsport in general for the whole damn country - at least the way our world operates right now. I think you and I agree that 99% of this forum's population is the sort who'd be clinging to a tree, reaching out to touch a flying rally car as it jumps past...but...we need to consider the bat**** crazy world we live in, and how quickly good and fun things are yanked away due to legal nonsense. It sucks but I feel like we're clinging to what we can keep in place, even if we need to bend to the gods of catch-fencing every now and then.

    I think we'd all like other options to be considered - but I don't see any other options.
     
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  15. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

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    I have a hard time thinking of a sport (from any country) that isn't a joke. Hell, the most popular sport in the world is kicking a ball around on a glorified lawn!

    Just think, people are getting paid millions, to utilize skills they learned as toddlers! :lol:

    So I take it you only like P2P racing? :odd:
     
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  16. MIE1992

    MIE1992

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    I actually have a hard time watching motorsports, and I'm more enthralled by the idea of driving myself, or at least watching someone that I know personally. It's a lot like watching Let's Plays or Twitch streamers: there'll be exceptions that are legitimately interesting, but for most part, it's just hard for me to pay attention. The same applies to most sports, really. I find it hard to be emotionally invested in relative strangers (as competent & skilled as they may be in their field) when I have myself, my family, friends, and other acquaintances to be concerned about.

    If most motorsport drivers - or even most athletes & sports stars in general - permanently retired in a few months, and collectively decided to go completely under the radar, I can't say I'd care. I'd likely forget about it in a month.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  17. flamingchariot

    flamingchariot

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    I don't even know what that means ...speak in clear english not jargon please ...but hell yes to the comment on football - its so overrated ...and don't get me started on the types of people that like it and justify how great it is....yeah mate!!!! They call anything sport nowadays thats even worse.

    I ride bikes now that's some real action right there, on the road avoiding road ragers ha ha, or using gravity to get speed.
     
  18. die996

    die996

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    Darren Cox is the human form of chronic failure. Nobody should ever give him a managing position ever again. He could probably drive Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport into bankruptcy in like 2 years.
     
  19. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    Eau Rouge was a far more interesting corner when it had a tighter radius and required some braking before it. That's the conclusion I have come to after driving 1960s Spa in sims. The current Eau Rouge, with the straighter profile that can be taken flat-out in cars with a lot of downforce, doesn't appeal to me as much. Eau Rogue should be the ultimate test of a driver's skills with weight transfer and grip management, not a straight pretending to be an S curve.

    If Eau Rouge was slower with a tighter radius, it would also be safer as a bonus.
     
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  20. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    I can get behind gravel at low and medium speed corners, but people asking for gravel at the high speed stuff like Raidillon have gravel in there heads. It just potentially creates a new set of problems.

    Highly doubt Magnussen would have walked away from his crash there a few years back if it was gravel. The floor probably would have dug in and sent him barrel rolling into the barriers.
     
  21. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    Hartley's crash at Silverstone last year showed exactly why tarmac is superior to gravel. The car was spinning and slowing down on the tarmac and would have hit the tyres "safely", but as soon as it hit the gravel, the car took off and the accident went from vaguely under control to a completely out of control aeroplane accident. Gravel is only useful for punishing mistakes, it is not a good safety feature.
     
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  22. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Tarmac run off is overused. There was no need for it at the Bruxelles hairpin at Spa, and if it is needed, it means that the cars are too fast.

    I don't see the point of having cars continue to break lap records if facilitating it means reducing the challenge of the circuit. It makes racing dull and makes motorsport more predictable. I want to see drivers risk crashing to go fast.

    There aren't enough corners like the degner curves in F1, where if you screw up, you're likely out of the race.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  23. die996

    die996

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    THE SAUSAGE KERB THAT SENT THE F3 IN THE AIR WAS ACTUALLY OK

    That sausage kerb is placed so drivers either do not go off-track or they have to go the long way around, Alex Peroni drove like a moron and paid it. The car would never fly if you hit the kerb naturally. Also, normal kerbs can also send a car flying if you hit them the wrong way around (backside-first).
     
  24. Jimlaad43

    Jimlaad43 Premium

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    Undoubtedly it worked as a deterrent and something is needed to stop them running wide there with the tarmac, but a deterrent isnt supposed to break someone's back and cause aeroplane accidents, regardless of if a driver is driving like an idiot or not.
     
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  25. TenEightyOne

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    Yes, it was okay to fit something that could do that so easily :rolleyes:

    I didn't see anything unnatural in the way he hit it... so as with your lengthy posts on this in the other thread I just can't tell if you're being serious or a supreme edgelord.
     
  26. FerrariF1GT

    FerrariF1GT

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    I don't want the V12s back. Hybrid/electric is the future whether you like it or not, Mr. Vettel.
     
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  27. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    Tarmac isn't just there to make over-running a corner safer, but it also stops disruption of a race. If a race has to be run under a safety car whilst a car buried in a gravel trap is recovered then it slows down proceedings. It seriously interrupts a 60 lap Grand Prix length race, it would likely bring to an early end a 12 lap club level race on a meeting with a packed schedule.
     
  28. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Yes, but what you gain with less disruptions you lose with the loss of challenge and spectacle, more predictable races, declining driving standards and contentious steward decisions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  29. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    The second last corner at Goodwood is a double-apex right turn with a tarmac run-off on the outside.

    The clever bit?
    There’s somewhere in the region of 12-24” of grass strip in between the racing circuit & the run-off area. It’s enough to unsettle the car & ruin your lap so no one wants to use the out of bounds, no laps disqualified for exceeding track limits, no Stewards enquiries etc....

    Why this isn’t a standard FIA requirement, especially where it’s needed, I’ll never know.

    I know why they brought in the tarmac run off but I hate them for taking away the fear of going off.
    Where are the rewards for the brave & skilled these days?

    At least with the Goodwood solution that partly returns minus the bodily consequences.
     
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  30. TheCracker

    TheCracker Premium

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    If you want challenge, spectacle and less contentious stewards decisions then why not get rid of gravel traps and paved run-off areas altogether and just go back to nice slippery grass verges?
     
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