Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

  • Thread starter Liquid
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Liquid
Rallycross was specifically created with television in mind. It was designed to be short and that is why it is popular.
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There's a flip side to this, I mean, I know TV is probably where the money is, but I've ruled out going to a WRX event a couple of times because it just doesn't represent value in times of time and effort for what you get to see (IMHO). You kind of expect that with something like the WRC, but not venue based circuit racing.

Tired Tyres
Pretending someone isn't a real fan because of a safety feature that protects from one thing but increases the danger of another thing and wouldn't have done anything at all about Massa's accident says a hell of a lot about YOU.
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Protesting the halo because it ruins the look of the cars is a much less valid standpoint than one of a critical risk assessment not finding it to be suitable. To be fair, JayOTT didn't really expand on why he felt alienated, but often it seems people try and claim it's less safe and shouldn't exist, when actually they just think it looks ugly and don't want to see it. I'd understand Jim's frustration if that was the case...

... but I agree, open cockpit is inherently more dangerous in a number of respects, debris impact being one of them. I'm personally not convinced it's a problem that needed 'solving' myself, we're at a point of diminishing returns in most motorsport, deaths are fortunately rare and there's no end of people that are prepared to put their life on the line to race.
 
die996
Can you imagine the pain of a 90-minute rallycross race? Even with like 12-15 cars it'd be such a boring experience... :lol:
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That wouldn't happen in general because the cars aren't made to last that long.
 
The World Rally Champion is a better-skilled driver than the World Driver's (F1) Champion in any corresponding year.

Come at me & prove me wrong.
 
Yeah, that's like taking the world's best drag racing driver and saying they're better than the leading Dakar driver, etc. I think all world-class drivers are above average in anything they'd get into, but I would bet money very few can transition between totally different disciplines and conquer both, particularly are cars become more advanced and different.

Now, do I think rally drivers have bigger balls than 95% of other racing drivers? Absolutely.
 
What constitutes as better 'skilled'? Loose gravel car control to the limit or finding the last 1/10th to clinch pole position on a lap people would consider perfect already? I think you'd find both respective to their own series, therefore is an incorrect statement to bring up because it's hinged on what you consider a more skilled attribute.
 
SVX
What constitutes as better 'skilled'? Loose gravel car control to the limit or finding the last 1/10th to clinch pole position on a lap people would consider perfect already? I think you'd find both respective to their own series, therefore is an incorrect statement to bring up because it's hinged on what you consider a more skilled attribute.
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'Skilled' in the WRC world means adapting to all sorts of surfaces, not only through different events on the championship calendar but also during the one event.

Their cars are given the best setup the Team can provide using the information available to them. Some stages start on a dry surface & end on snow or ice. Others combine tarmac & gravel. The tyres they use have to last multiple stages, most times a compromise of sorts.

The driver & navigator use pace notes gained from a recce of stages where in excess of 3 passes over a stage is rare. The driver may remember some of the shorter stages but will never be able to recall all of the longer stages.

'Skilled' in the F1 world is arriving at a track, practising & qualifying for 2 days before racing a very well set up car, usually on a consistent surface, over a lap distance of no more than Spa Francorchamps.

In a hypothetical comparison, Lewis Hamilton versus Ott Tanak in the Championship-winning cars, over the longest lap (Spa) in the F1 world, compared to a tarmac stage of a similar distance ( to make it fair), I would fully expect Ott to be closer to Lewis' lap than Lewis would get to Ott's stage time. Move Lewis over to a gravel or snow stage & the gap would only grow.

I know who I would rather have racing for my life.
 
Barra333
Apples and oranges. Impossible to prove anything.
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True.

But when I watch rallying, I am always thinking "Jesus, how are these guys not dying left right and centre?" with them flying past trees, fence posts, cliffs, ditches, jumps and houses.

I suppose you could argue that there is a greater or more frequent element of immediate danger in rallying compared to closed circuit racing and that there is a great skill in avoiding that danger time after time but you can't compare the inherent skills of the driving in both disciplines.
 
Pete05
'Skilled' in the F1 world is arriving at a track, practising & qualifying for 2 days before racing a very well set up car, usually on a consistent surface, over a lap distance of no more than Spa Francorchamps.
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A bit of an ignorant way to look at it though don't you think? If it was so unskilled, why is there a difference between drivers in teams, let alone other teams?
 
Pete05
'Skilled' in the WRC world means adapting to all sorts of surfaces, not only through different events on the championship calendar but also during the one event.

Their cars are given the best setup the Team can provide using the information available to them. Some stages start on a dry surface & end on snow or ice. Others combine tarmac & gravel. The tyres they use have to last multiple stages, most times a compromise of sorts.

The driver & navigator use pace notes gained from a recce of stages where in excess of 3 passes over a stage is rare. The driver may remember some of the shorter stages but will never be able to recall all of the longer stages.

'Skilled' in the F1 world is arriving at a track, practising & qualifying for 2 days before racing a very well set up car, usually on a consistent surface, over a lap distance of no more than Spa Francorchamps.

In a hypothetical comparison, Lewis Hamilton versus Ott Tanak in the Championship-winning cars, over the longest lap (Spa) in the F1 world, compared to a tarmac stage of a similar distance ( to make it fair), I would fully expect Ott to be closer to Lewis' lap than Lewis would get to Ott's stage time. Move Lewis over to a gravel or snow stage & the gap would only grow.

I know who I would rather have racing for my life.
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I don't think you are being overly fair in your assessment of F1. Personally I consider them to be equal as they are the pinnacle of off-road and on-road motorsports.

F1 is hard because every lap they are driving on a razors edge, on the limit of grip/focus, while managing so many variables within the car for over 70 laps. Even at the highest level (F1) there are huge differences in performance purely down to the driver. Perez for example has a deft hand at managing delicate tyres and that has put him in contention for a win vs a far superior car (Sauber vs Ferrari).
I'm not sure how meaningful your statement of Lewis vs Ott is either... you would imagine that Ott would naturally have more experience racing/driving on road surfaces than Lewis does driving with a co-pilot and or on dirt, for example. And driving an F1 car and being good, isn't simply about being fast over a single lap, it's about being able to do it, while nursing the car and the tyres, over the span of 70 laps. And that's to say nothing of actually battling on-track with other drivers all doing the same as you.
 
The best way to compare them is to take examples of drivers that swapped. I'm sure we're all happy to claim that Kimi Raikkonen is a good F1 driver, right? He went to WRC for a couple of years and pretty much the entire time buried in a ditch upside-down. I'm sure we can also agree that Sebastien Loeb was half-decent in a rally car? His stint in the WTCC didn't exactly go brilliantly, as he was always upstaged by circuit-racer team mates despite having a monstrously OP car in that series. And Ogier's cameo in the DTM didn't exactly go too well either...

So yes, both require supreme talent, but different types of talent that don't quite translate, making comparisons a bit vague.

A rally driver can take a corner on any surface as quickly as they think they can on their first attempt at it, a racing driver aims to eventually take a corner at the fastest possible speed and then repeat that over and over without getting it wrong.

That said, if I ever required a getaway driver, I'd choose a rally driver over a racing driver.
 
It's similar to comparing combat sports.

Boxer vs Wrestler, who wins?

In a boxing match, the boxer. (Floyd Mayweather didn't even have to try against Connor McGregor)
In a wrestling match, the wrestler. (Randy Couture submitted James Toney inside 20 seconds)

Each type of motor racing is too specialised and professional these days. Even if there are transferrable skills on the basis of simply being a "racing driver", it's only natural that whoever has the home advantage is going to win.

Jimlaad43
That said, if I ever required a getaway driver, I'd choose a rally driver over a racing driver.
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A very astute point to consider next time I'm robbing a bank. :lol:
 
Jimlaad43
That said, if I ever required a getaway driver, I'd choose a rally driver over a racing driver.
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As long as you have pace notes for your getaway route. And not Ken Block as he'd have to do each corner half a dozen times to make it look good.
 
That's actually a good point. Another thing in Racing drivers favour is exactly that - wheel-to-wheel racing. Rally drivers are only racing against the clock, they're not having to battle past slower drivers or hold off much faster ones. If you're asking for a getaway driver that can lick the stamp and send it up the inside of a cop car into a roundabout, then you need a racing driver.
 
Liquid
True.

But when I watch rallying, I am always thinking "Jesus, how are these guys not dying left right and centre?" with them flying past trees, fence posts, cliffs, ditches, jumps and houses.

I suppose you could argue that there is a greater or more frequent element of immediate danger in rallying compared to closed circuit racing and that there is a great skill in avoiding that danger time after time but you can't compare the inherent skills of the driving in both disciplines.
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Easy answer: reconaissance (pre-running) is a thing, a very important one. You've been there, your brain remembers quite a bit and your co-driver is helping out in a great manner. Meanwhile, Dakar Rally is much crazier as there is no pre-running, you've never been there and you don't know what might after that crest ahead of you.
 
daan
As long as you have pace notes for your getaway route. And not Ken Block as he'd have to do each corner half a dozen times to make it look good.
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almost like it's a marketing thing first and foremost
 
Liquid
Same year, and I can't even remember if I hated it at the time, but the Honda earth car is gorgeous. Such a shame it was an awful machine.
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That I do agree with. I almost feel it's more of an "art car" similar to the classic BMW art cars.

EDIT: Come to think of it that car is one of the only modern F1 cars I've ever seen in person (at Watkins Glen), and I remember liking it even more in person. There's a ton of amazing details in that livery that the TV just doesn't capture.
 
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Liquid
I've no idea if this is universally unpopular but I don't really have anywhere else to bitch about it:

Lap counters that count down rather than up. Hate them.

54/60
Wrong

It is 7/60.
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I'm not sure I actually hate those sorts of things as I do get used to it after a bit, but they sure are confusing especially when you first see it. Kind of like showing laps completed / total laps instead of currently working lap / total laps. I'm not sure where but I know I have seen that somewhere.

There is definitely also a series I've seen recently running endurance races where the clock counts UP.
 
- The Honda RA108 with the white base and red accenting was the most beautiful car of that year.

- Vettel is crazy if he thinks he deserves to keep getting the big bucks after loosing to Leclerc last year.

- DTM should become an all-pro GT3 series for German makes.
 

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