Unpopular Opinions- Cars in General

  • Thread starter Turbo
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yf23
I don't think it's malicious intent. I think it's just the use of cheaper materials that fail quicker over time.
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Cheaper materials, not surprisingly, don't last as long. The other side of that coin is they, not surprisingly, don't cost as much.

:lol:

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

But seriously, Occam's razor would suggest that the reason for using inexpensive materials is that they are inexpensive, not that they will need to be replaced sooner which means $$$ for the manufacturer.

Something else to consider is that people are talking about such defects, which doesn't serve the manufacturer very well, but the bean counters are so good at counting those danged beans that they probably weighed the pros of cost cutting against the cons of bad press.

mustafur
Well i know with most modern VW they purposely give you super thin brake rotors so that when it's time to replace the pads the rotor also has to be replaced as it's too thin to machine down. That is straight up cost cutting.
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Can you link to anything that supports that claim? I'm not saying it's fals, but I couldn't find anything in my search to support it. However, I did find this from Tom and Ray Magliozzi (R.I.P. Tom) of NPR's Car Talk:

Dear Tom and Ray:

bluecar.gif

I have a 2000 VW Golf 1.8T, which I have enjoyed owning -- except when I have taken it to the shop for brake pads. When I brought it in at 40,000 miles, the dealer told me that I needed not only brake pads, but also rotors. He informed me that Volkswagen makes thin rotors that are not able to be resurfaced. He said they are designed to wear out with the pads. Is this true? And why would they intentionally make thin brake rotors that have to be replaced every time you change the pads? -- Pax

TOM: Surprisingly, it's to keep customers from complaining, Pax!


RAY: It's all about noise. In the old days, brake pads were made of asbestos. Asbestos was a perfect material for brake pads (except for that little issue of lung disease). It was durable, it performed well at high temperatures and it was relatively soft, so it didn't squeal when it made contact with the hard steel rotors.

TOM: And with the softer asbestos pads, the pads would wear out over time (as they were designed to) but leave the rotors relatively unscathed.

RAY: Because of the dangers of asbestos, we now use metallic brake pads. When the hard metallic brake pads squeeze the hard metal rotors, they make noise. And customers -- as I can personally attest -- hate brake noise.

TOM: So over time, manufacturers, including VW, have softened up the rotors to get rid of the squealing. VW is not alone in this. All manufacturers have done it.

RAY: But as a result, the rotors wear out almost as fast as the brake pads do. And they often wear out so much that they end up being too thin to machine.

TOM: Now, the manufacturers could simply make their rotors thicker. But making steel rotors thicker adds a lot of weight, which reduces gas mileage.

RAY: So the reality is thinner, softer rotors, which are inconvenient and costly for you, Pax. But look on the bright side: You're helping the guys in the parts department to send their kids to private colleges.
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Oh and I'm sure that last sentence jumps out, but I should note that Tom and Ray gave car advice with a comedic bent, and Tom had the most infectious laugh.

This isn't car advice per se, but Tom laughs plenty and I think it's worth a listen anyway:



I do miss that man...
 
It was the case with my dad's 2013 VW Caddy and my friends 2015 Golf they have thinner pads compared to any other car I have encountered, My 2015 Mazda 2 has gone through 2 pad changes on the front and the Rotor is still fine.
 
mustafur
It was the case with my dad's 2013 VW Caddy and my friends 2015 Golf they have thinner pads compared to any other car I have encountered, My 2015 Mazda 2 has gone through 2 pad changes on the front and the Rotor is still fine.
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I presume you're still talking about the rotors as in the last post rather than pads as in the post I've just quoted...

Still, if it's a pervasive issue, it's surely been documented, and maybe I just don't know what wording to use when I conduct a search. My previous post cites the only pertinent information I found.
 
yf23
cars 20 years ago were made better.
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I would say that very much depends on the brand. Some makes have indeed gone down in quality in that time span, but on the flip side manufacturers like Hyundai/Kia have made large improvements in their quality. There's also the fact that most cars these days are far more economical, safer and comfortable than their 20 year old counterpart was when new.
 
Northstar
I would say that very much depends on the brand. Some makes have indeed gone down in quality in that time span, but on the flip side manufacturers like Hyundai/Kia have made large improvements in their quality. There's also the fact that most cars these days are far more economical, safer and comfortable than their 20 year old counterpart was when new.
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In the end old people Will always claim that everything in the old days was better even If it isnt factually so. Hence MAGA was so populair in the US. Heck even I think everything was better in the 90’s.
 
PocketZeven
In the end old people Will always claim that everything in the old days was better even If it isnt factually so. Hence MAGA was so populair in the US. Heck even I think everything was better in the 90’s.
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It's called 'rose-tinted glasses' Your mind remembers the good points but tends to block out the bad points. I loved liked school in retrospect but i know for sure that i did actually hate it at the time.

MAGA and Brexit and nationalism in general all fall into that category.
 
TheCracker
It's called 'rose-tinted glasses' Your mind remembers the good points but tends to block out the bad points. I loved liked school in retrospect but i know for sure that i did actually hate it at the time.

MAGA and Brexit and nationalism in general all fall into that category.
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And I am pretty sure my C350E is built better then my dad's Mercedes w124 E-class or Opel omega.
 
PocketZeven
Thats just being nostalgic though. Older cars (also american) were deathtraps compared to modern cars. That doenst mean I dislike old cars. Just stating facts.
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No one in their right mind says American cars where better made in the 70s to 2000s
 
mustafur
I'm not really sure you know what I'm saying.

Wait lol, I got messed up with what your saying, Modern american cars are significantly better then the past, especially GM
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Lol I guess I mixed up too... I thought you were saying older american cars were built better then now.
 
Not sure if it belongs to here, buuut...

The recent Audi advertisements are really weird and too much. However the Christmas one back in 2016 was really cool. Not sure if they're the same in other countries too, since in my country there is an Audi factory in the city Győr. They aren't representing the true form of the car. It's like they want to tease a 1 million $ car. Plus that horrible music they choose for them...

They are trying too hard.
 
TheNuvolari
Not sure if it belongs to here, buuut...

The recent Audi advertisements are really weird and too much. However the Christmas one back in 2016 was really cool. Not sure if they're the same in other countries too, since in my country there is an Audi factory in the city Győr. They aren't representing the true form of the car. It's like they want to tease a 1 million $ car. Plus that horrible music they choose for them...

They are trying too hard.
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I disagree. If they were trying too hard, they'd be blasting Last Christmas at every opportunity.
 
Obelisk
I disagree. If they were trying too hard, they'd be blasting Last Christmas at every opportunity.
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Okay, it's me then. Just the Q8 and the A8 advertisement wasn't something like from Audi.
The official version is simply elegant, I like it:


And what we recently got here:

Yes it isn't in English, but the point is pretty similar: the 'forget' word. I just find those scenes at the beginning unnecesary. And the narrator says totally off-topic things, like: "forget the buttons, those are for coats"
 
mustafur
Modern american cars are significantly better then the past, especially GM
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Safety and practicality wise, yes.
But in my opinion, stylistically NO especially from the 50s or 60s (most of the time). I think they lost their character and soul.

Impala:
Miami-Lakes-Automall-Chevy-Impala-1958-2018.jpg


Malibu:
1969
12253_fc98dbd2a8_low_res.jpg


2018
USC60CHC111C021001.jpg
 
Unpopular opinion: the Lancia Thema 8.32 is overly praised all due to the fact that it has a Ferrari engine. That doesn't make it a "sleeper". It's FWD and only makes 210hp, while other sport sedans of that time had RWD and some, like the M5, made roughly 100hp more.

Don't get me wrong, the Thema 8.32 still is an interesting and admirable car, it's just that it's not as revolutionary as many claim it is.
 
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Turbo
Unpopular opinion: the Lancia Thema 8.32 is overly praised all due to the fact that it has a Ferrari engine. That doesn't make it a "sleeper". It's FWD and only makes 210hp, while other sport sedans of that time had RWD and some, like the M5, made roughly 100hp more.
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I'd have to agree with you. Still an interesting car but not the fastest thing on earth.
 
Ignoring the fact that it's fairly hard to have a popular opinion at all about a car most people have never heard of until they read about it on Jalopnik, the M5 (be it the E28 that was on sale when the Thema came out or the E34 that went on sale a couple years after) was also well ahead of pretty much everything else in the late 1980s as well, unless you wanted to unload a bunch of your cocaine shipment so you could pick up a Hammer. It's like taking the DC5 to task because it would get wasted by an SRT-4 Neon.

Turbo
It's FWD and only makes 210hp, while other sport sedans of that time had RWD and some, like the M5, made roughly 100hp more.
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What other midsized-ish sport sedans were there in the late 1980s? How many of those actually had significantly more power, which would be when RWD would actually maybe be more necessary rather than a bonus?
 
Tornado
Ignoring the fact that it's fairly hard to have a popular opinion at all about a car most people have never heard of until they read about it on Jalopnik, the M5 (be it the E28 that was on sale when the Thema came out or the E34 that went on sale a couple years after) was also well ahead of pretty much everything else in the late 1980s as well, unless you wanted to unload a bunch of your cocaine shipment so you could pick up a Hammer. It's like taking the DC5 to task because it would get wasted by an SRT-4 Neon.


What other midsized-ish sport sedans were there in the late 1980s? How many of those actually had significantly more power, which would be when RWD would actually maybe be more necessary rather than a bonus?
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BMW M5 E34 pre-facelift, 311 horsepower (101 more than the Thema) and RWD.

BMW M5 E28, 286 horsepower and RWD.

Mercedes-Benz 400E, 275 horsepower and RWD.

Audi V8, 247 horsepower and AWD.

Alfa Romeo 164 Quadrifolgio, 231 horsepower and RWD.

Hell, even the Americans could do it faster. The original Taurus SHO put out 220hp and had a faster 0-60 time than the Thema (6.8s compared to 7.2).
 
I always thought people loved the Thema more because of its technology and it being a Lancia?
 
R5
I always thought people loved the Thema more because of its technology and it being a Lancia?
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You're not wrong, but 9 out of 10 times "car enthusiasts" refer to the Thema as the "Ferrari sedan" when it is brought up.
 
I'm not sure from where this "sleeper" narrative is coming.

Beyond the car not being particularly fast, the notion that it's a sleeper due to it having a Ferrari is inherently flawed because the car doesn't really have a Ferrari engine. Sure, the block and head castings came from Maranello and are indeed shared with the Mondial, the Mondial's tipo F105A Quattrovalvole V8 features an appropriate-for-Ferrari flat-plane crank. The big Lancia, however, needed torque much more than the little sports car, necessitating a cross-plane crank and everything that goes along with it, which included a unique engine designation--it was dubbed the F105L. Not only that, but assembly didn't actually fall to Ferrari. Lancia wasn't responsible for that either. No, the parts were sent to Bologna to be assembled by...wait for it...Ducati.

The 8.32 wasn't particularly revolutionary either. I suppose as it relates to period Fiat Group Lancias it may have been, but Lancia at one time had a reputation for employing advanced technology in its cars. Take the Aurelia, with the first mass market V6 engine and a front-engine/rear-transmission configuration that hadn't been seen since the chain-drive era. By comparison, a 32v V8 that was borrowed from another company in the same family and then modified to suit the car better isn't exactly groundbreaking.

The 8.32, beyond anything else, is peculiar. And sure, I'm typically fond of peculiarity, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble in this instance. If I had to have a Thema, I'd go for a later car with the Busso V6 over the 8.32. However, I'd much rather have a 164 than a Thema (same platform) where the Busso is actually fitting.
 

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