Unprovoked aggression?

  • Thread starter GTFraker
  • 103 comments
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JLBowler
You are well past the wrecked car by corner exit and it had nothing to do with staying tight on exit. The only reason to stay tight on exit would be to restrict the room that the other driver had on corner exit in an attempt to slow his momentum. If I had to judge it as a steward, I'd say both drivers were at fault and write it off as a racing incident and penalize neither.
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How am I squeezing him here?

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If it was an honest mistake, and a fair-minded individual in the beetle, then one would expect the position to be given back post incident. Running out of talent does happen, but be sure to recover by owning your mistake.
 
What do you expect from a Beetle car driver with cartoons all over it? An adult driver?

Joking aside, I don't think it was intentional. You had room to exit the corner a little higher up and the whole thing could of been avoided. Yea, her line wasn't the greatest, terrible even, but no one is perfect. The contact definitely wasn't hard enough to be intentional.

Whenever I see Danica Patrick in a cartoon Beetle, I give her lots of room. This case I would of rode on the edge of the curb/paint on exit as long as needed. Which is what I would always try to do.
 
Skeletor27
What do you expect from a Beetle car driver with cartoons all over it? An adult driver?

Joking aside, I don't think it was intentional. You had room to exit the corner a little higher up and the whole thing could of been avoided. Yea, her line wasn't the greatest, terrible even, but no one is perfect. The contact definitely wasn't hard enough to be intentional.

Whenever I see Danica Patrick in a cartoon Beetle, I give her lots of room. This case I would of rode on the edge of the curb/paint on exit as long as needed. Which is what I would always try to do.
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I tried to do the same, I stayed well away up until I saw the crashed Porsche, me being new to driving that Z4 was an element as well.
 
GTFraker
I have had 70 or 80 races in GTS so far I think, I have been torpedoed or used as a brake and turn pad numerous times. It just hurt more because I tried really hard to give him space. The only reason I didn't use the whole track on that turn was the ghosted car on the outside and me being gingerly with the Z4.
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Yes but the gost car was not his fault. And you not wanting to use all of the track because you arent familiar with the car was not his fault either. If you were worried about the ghost car you should have slowed down and if you were worried about using all of the track maybe you shouldnt have tried to go round the outside in a tricky corner and wait for a better oppertunity to regain that position.
 
Shottah072
Yes but the gost car was not his fault. And you not wanting to use all of the track because you arent familiar with the car was not his fault either. If you were worried about the ghost car you should have slowed down and if you were worried about using all of the track maybe you shouldnt have tried to go round the outside in a tricky corner and wait for a better oppertunity to regain that position.
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You are right, I should have been less ambitious with a car that I was still not comfortable with.
 
It's a racing incident, you had plenty of space to your outside, he had space to his inside.

You expected him to stay to the inside, he expected you to stay to the outside.

Neither of you respected the other person enough and it ended in contact - unfortunately you were the one who suffered.
 
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GTFraker
You are right, I should have been less ambitious with a car that I was still not comfortable with.
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I know it sucks when a race gets ruined but as long as we can look back at it and learn from it we still gained something from it. Ofcourse we cant avoid everything, but usually there are small things we could have done different ourselfs to prevent it, no matter who was at fault. If we can continue to pick up on these things over time incidents will occur less and less. Better luck next race !
 
GTFraker
Maybe, but he could have kept away, it's not like I came at him from above, here is another angle:

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Looks like he was having understeer and tried too hard to get the position and take the place at the very first instance, rather than waiting to get an easy overtake by drafting on the straight a few seconds later.

Seems they are able to put in a quick lap, but their lack of skill in racecraft was showing.
 
Nothing to see here.

Slight touch, that happens when racing wheel to wheel. You had space on the outside to go round the corner.

The Bettle didn't take the best line into the corner and you kept accelerating after the touch (I don't know why).

I think you were afraid of going wide because, as you've admitted, you didn't know the Z4 very well yet and maybe also the track/corner.
 
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The Beetle is most definitely at fault. Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant:

08: Corner Rights:

A: When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner's turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver's position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

You both had a right to your "lane" in the corner. You maintained your lane and left enough space for the inside driver. The Beetle driver did not respect your lane or space and moved into you. Intentional or accidental doesn't matter.. It's his responsibility to enter the corner at a speed at which he can maintain control of his vehicle and he didn't. His fault entirely.
 
Johnnypenso
The Beetle is most definitely at fault. Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant:

08: Corner Rights:

A: When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.

B: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner's turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver's position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.

C: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.

You both had a right to your "lane" in the corner. You maintained your lane and left enough space for the inside driver. The Beetle driver did not respect your lane or space and moved into you. Intentional or accidental doesn't matter.. It's his responsibility to enter the corner at a speed at which he can maintain control of his vehicle and he didn't. His fault entirely.
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I must say i am really amazed that even though you know the rules you still get it wrong most of the time. The beetle maintained control and left a car width of space but OP didnt use all of that space for reasons he already explained. It is clearly a racing incident both could have avoided but both didnt.
 
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You would have to watch the previous laps to see how the Beetle driver approaches that corner. To me it's 60/40 with the 60% being that the Beetle driver has attempted to run the other driver wide and has knowingly taken a chance with the contact.
 
Potato_Head
Well then...

The Beetle heads well outside the correct line. On purpose or not (although, it is definitely on purpose), I do believe the blame lays with the Beetle here.
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They are side by side trough the corner. Neither one was on the correct line, whatever that means.
 
Shottah072
They are side by side trough the corner. Neither was on the correct line, whatever that means.
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It only meant that the Beetle knew it had to take an inside line but took a peculiar apex.

This video:

1:43-1:44 conclusively answers the question. Look at the wheel angle. Whether on purpose or not, the Beetle was made visually made aware of the presence of the other car and steered outwards.
 
Potato_Head
It only meant that the Beetle knew it had to take an inside line but took a peculiar apex.

This video:

1:43-1:44 conclusively answers the question. Look at the wheel angle. Whether on purpose or not, the Beetle was made visually made aware of the presence of the other car and steered outwards.
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By saying he steered outwards your implying he turned left wich he never did. He opened the steering angle after hitting the apex, this answers nothing at all unless you are expecting him to keep full lock untill his car is straight wich obviously would never happen.
 
Shottah072
By saying he steered outwards your implying he turned left wich he never did. He opened the steering angle after hitting the apex, this answers nothing at all unless you are expecting him to keep full lock untill his car is straight wich obviously would never happen.
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It's the quickest path, I would.

But who knows man, just another GTS incident no one will know the answer to :D
 
Potato_Head
It's the quickest path, I would.

But who knows man, just another GTS incident no one will know the answer to :D
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Have you even read the thread ? The answer is that it was a racing incident. About 90% of people that posted here agreed on this.
 
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Shottah072
Have you even read the thread ? The answer is that it was a racing incident. About 90% of people that posted here agreed on this.
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Nope. Haven't read the thread. Don't need to read it. At 1:43 the Beetle has (almost surely) made contact with the BMW at precisely the correct point to cause the BMW to lose control in a manner that will not impact or really impede its own progress. 92.5% now, the Beetle did that on purpose. I'm not exactly new to race craft.
 
Potato_Head
Nope. Haven't read the thread. Don't need to read it. At 1:43 the Beetle has (almost surely) made contact with the BMW at precisely the correct point to cause the BMW to lose control in a manner that will not impact or really impede its own progress. 92.5% now, the Beetle did that on purpose. I'm not exactly new to race craft.
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If we are at 92.5% now that means you agree with me on it being a racing incident lol.
 
Potato_Head
I'm just randomly choosing % TBH.
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You make no sense to me.

Edit: ow i think i get it, your 92.5% is the blame rate you aply. I thought you were refering to the 90% of people that agreed on it being a racing incident lol.
 
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