Update 1.06 possible changes to the physics + general physics discussion.

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
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Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
I hope it's ok to make a separate thread from the Update 1.06 Discussion Thread specifically concerning possible changes to the physics model. There's been some debate on it in the Update 1.06 Undocumented Changes Thread beginning roughly at the link. This happens along with every update, along with people claiming there are changes to the PP system, aero etc. etc.

Some members are convinced that the Nurb especially is somehow different. Given the lengthy list of undocumented changes in both the 1.05 and 1.06 update, anything is possible. I thought this might warrant a separate discussion so if you have any thoughts or observations on perceived changes to the physics after the 1.06 update, feel free to discuss them here.

This is not a discussion thread for the whole update or GT in general, or the physics model itself and it's merits, so confine your discussion to possible changes in physics 1.05>1.06 only.
 
508
Canada
canada
jakebG18
none,because my 1st 4 rrod'ed
Did a couple online/offline Nurb runs last night,no difference noticed in two MR cars,one FR and one FF.Not to be a douche but what changes are being implied?Two PSN buddies arrived at the same results as well.
Edit: Sorry I Just skimmed The OP didn't notice the links,answered my own question.No changes noticed nonetheless.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
Improved framerate? After playing super-smooth 60fps PS2 games for few weeks, when i returned to GT6 yesterday, framerate still felt terrible for me.

What a bizarre statement. Just because it's not as good as PS2 means there hasn't been any improvement from the rubbish that it was before? If it was averaging 40-45fps before and it's now averaging 50-55fps that still qualifies as an improvement. That's like saying this $50 bill is worthless because it doesn't have the same value as a $100 bill. :odd:
 
1,689
United States
NY
SavageEvil
I think there might have been something tweaked or applied to suspension physics, things are definitely more lively especially with a FFB wheel. It's faint but it's there and noticeable on LMP cars haven't driven the other race cars but the Bentley Speed 8 and the Audi R18 both feel tighter under power but at the edge of control and I detuned the Speed 8 to it's dealership hp level all my race cars are at their dealership hp levels as I can stand the massive power boost.
 
34
Singapore
Bayside Express
They could have changed something when they were fiddling around with the out of bounds traction control. I've felt some slight changes almost as if I was faster but that may be due to a placebo effect or the better framerate.

I have doubts though. If they were going to fix anything, the pitstop and camber should have came as first priority.

Cheers.
 
253
Poland
Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
andryush
What a bizarre statement. Just because it's not as good as PS2 means there hasn't been any improvement from the rubbish that it was before? If it was averaging 40-45fps before and it's now averaging 50-55fps that still qualifies as an improvement. That's like saying this $50 bill is worthless because it doesn't have the same value as a $100 bill. :odd:
No, it doesn't mean that. I never said so...?
To say the truth, it was big dissapointment for me when i launched the game after update. Game suffers big slowdowns when in third person view, or whenever smoke comes in play. My first thoughts were like - damn, before it worked better!... But it's probably because I've played PS2 recently and get used to consistent high framerate and I have simply forgot how GT6 performed.

Anyway it's a good news if framerate has been improved.
 
1,460
United Kingdom
England
Not noticed any difference.


I have been testing and tweaking my M3 base model setup at the Nordschleife throughout the change from 1.05 to 1.06, it handled the same before and after the update, and I know it very well at the moment. Had been testing for about a week or so before the update aswell.


All offline in arcade time trial mode. All assists off inc abs 0.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
Not noticed any difference.


I have been testing and tweaking my M3 base model setup at the Nordschleife throughout the change from 1.05 to 1.06, it handled the same before and after the update, and I know it very well at the moment. Had been testing for about a week or so before the update aswell.


All offline in arcade time trial mode. All assists off inc abs 0.

Most people report the most noticeable changes on MR cars, the M3 is FR. I've been testing a lot of Ferrari's over the last couple weeks for an upcoming project, when I turned the game on after 1.06 and took the same Ferrari's out I noticed an immediate difference. I had decided to run MR Ferrari's on SM tires because I just couldn't manage them consistently on the stock SH tires and would spin about every other lap. Now I can drive any of them on SH with no problem and push as hard as I would with a FR car.

I also tend to think that the change is more noticeable in stock cars. If you've added/tweaked parts on the car it might water-down any noticeable change that was made to the physics since you've essentially tuned any unique characteristics out of the car. Take a stock MR car out, on stock tires, and see if it's easy to drive or still a bit of a handfull like they were the first few months of the game.
 
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1,460
United Kingdom
England
Most report the most noticeable changes on MR cars, the M3 is FR. I've been testing a lot of Ferrari's over the last couple weeks for an upcoming project, when I turned the game on after 1.06 and took the same Ferrari's out I noticed an immediate difference. I had decided to run MR Ferrari's on SM tires because I just couldn't manage them consistently on the stock SH tires and would spin just about every other lap. Now I can drive any of them on SH with no problem and push as hard as I would with a FR car.

I also tend to think that the change is more noticeable in stock cars. If you've added/tweaked parts on the car it might water-down any noticeable change that was made to the physics since you've essentially tuned any unique characteristics out of the car. Take a stock MR car out, on stock tires, and see if it's easy to drive or still a bit of a handfull like they were the first few months of the game.
I'm aware of the M3's drive layout, thanks 👍:lol:

The OP doesn't mention drive layout, the only specific mentioned on the OP is pre/post 1.06 physics, and the nurburgring. Hence my response.

Like the first few months of the game?


As far as I'm aware, the MR physics have changed a couple of times since then.


To be brutally honest, I have never had an issue with MR cars. Quite enjoyed the launch physics with very lively rear ends. They then made them more stable. Your saying they're more stable again?

I'll give my R8 LMS a blast though, as I know that from before the update.


I don't really see why my tuned cars would show less of a difference, there is either a difference, or there isn't.
:cheers:
 
1,804
United States
Pennsylvania
dayofwar2009
PSN#2 Roob_OG
The first time I got on track after the update I immediately thought something felt different. And that was before these posts started popping up. I'm not convinced and it may be in my head. Just thought I would mention.
 
4,282
Belgium
Belgium
Some members are convinced that the Nurb especially is somehow different.
From my 27.000 kms on the ring (mostly 24'), about 1000 km were done after the most recent update.
I used different cars and also my R8 Phoenix (62 wins).
Just to say I have some feeling for the ring.
I can't say I felt something had changed after the update... :odd:
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
I'm aware of the M3's drive layout, thanks 👍:lol:

The OP doesn't mention drive layout, the only specific mentioned on the OP is pre/post 1.06 physics, and the nurburgring. Hence my response.

Like the first few months of the game?


As far as I'm aware, the MR physics have changed a couple of times since then.


To be brutally honest, I have never had an issue with MR cars. Quite enjoyed the launch physics with very lively rear ends. They then made them more stable. Your saying they're more stable again?

I'll give my R8 LMS a blast though, as I know that from before the update.


I don't really see why my tuned cars would show less of a difference, there is either a difference, or there isn't.
:cheers:


Sorry, wasn't trying to imply you didn't know the drivetrain of the car, was clarifying for other readers that it seems MR cars have been effected the most.

And yes, the MR physics have changed a few times. The first couple months they were very unruly, then they got a bit better, then they got a bit better again, and now they're still a bit better (almost too good).

I don't know for sure that tuned cars show less difference, just a theory. My thinking is that if you've tuned a car then you've eliminated most of the natural characteristics of the car to make it fit your driving style, thus a change to the base physics could get lost in the mix. I don't tune any cars and at least in the MR cars it was an immediate effect I noticed before I had even read anything on here about a possible change. I took the 430 Scud out first and I had to double check that it was on SM's and not racing tires because it would not break loose at all, where just a day or two before I had to be very gentle with the brakes/throttle to keep the pointy end forward. I had to go out of my way to get the back end loose and even then it quickly stepped back in line instead of trying to kill me dead. I can't quantify or scientifically prove it, and it didn't necessarily make my lap times any better, but I know it's much more fun to drive now.
 
1,460
United Kingdom
England
Sorry, wasn't trying to imply you didn't know the drivetrain of the car, was clarifying for other readers that it seems MR cars have been effected the most.

And yes, the MR physics have changed a few times. The first couple months they were very unruly, then they got a bit better, then they got a bit better again, and now they're still a bit better (almost too good).

I don't know for sure that tuned cars show less difference, just a theory. My thinking is that if you've tuned a car then you've eliminated most of the natural characteristics of the car to make it fit your driving style, thus a change to the base physics could get lost in the mix. I don't tune any cars and at least in the MR cars it was an immediate effect I noticed before I had even read anything on here about a possible change. I took the 430 Scud out first and I had to double check that it was on SM's and not racing tires because it would not break loose at all, where just a day or two before I had to be very gentle with the brakes/throttle to keep the pointy end forward. I had to go out of my way to get the back end loose and even then it quickly stepped back in line instead of trying to kill me dead. I can't quantify or scientifically prove it, and it didn't necessarily make my lap times any better, but I know it's much more fun to drive now.
I must apologise, another member has me slightly riled up, and it escaped into this thread aswell...



I will definitely give a few stock MR's a go, I do have an F430 scud with only breathing mods as one my my ring weapons, so I'll try that.


In my opinion, MR's should be very eager to rotate, my experience of a 360 on a track experience day showed a very pointy turn in, with minimal steering input needed for a direction change, compounded when heavy on the brakes. ABS is going crazy at half brake pressure, and you can feel the rear wanting to rotate.

My Mrs drove a gallardo, and had a big moment on the brakes into a chicane, too late on the brakes caused her to have to turn in whilst still scrubbing speed, the rear let go, she saved it with a quick dab of oppo, but I would bet it would've been a different matter without all the stability electronics.

My point is they aren't making them 'better' in my opinion, they're making them easier.

But :cheers: I'll have a play about and see what I think 👍
 
316
United States
The Ozone
steveween
I don't think it's track or car specific myself. But the change I percieve is most noticable and helpful on bumpy undulating tracks , and with twitchy cars. Before the update cars would on occasion rotate unpredictably as though the steering was reacting sporadically. Now however they seem more fluid.

Before the update I could barely make it 'round the Ring in the Bentley. Yesterday I ran three tidy laps instantly cutting 6 seconds of my previous best time. I then ended up nearly 14 seconds faster than before. The big difference being my confidence in the car.
 
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376
Germany
Nürburgring
lukasspeed
I stated my opinion already in the other thread: The big change was from 1.04 to 1.05. In my opinion the transition from full grip to sliding got much smoother. If an MR rear got sideways momentum, it got easier to catch it back and the rear generally came less likely too far 'round. It wasn't that easy to spot because if you stayed within the limits of full grip, there was no big change. But you could exploit the limit more. I also think the Nurburgring laptimes got quicker from 1.04 to 1.05, a little more than the warm tyre change can explain, but it's hard to tell, especially since we didn't get much time with 1.05 and it required a retune to exploit the limit properly.

From 1.05 to 1.06 I didn't notice any changes and didn't change anything at my favorite cars setup.
 

Johnnypenso

Well known double poster
Premium
28,466
Canada
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
In my opinion, MR's should be very eager to rotate, my experience of a 360 on a track experience day showed a very pointy turn in, with minimal steering input needed for a direction change, compounded when heavy on the brakes. ABS is going crazy at half brake pressure, and you can feel the rear wanting to rotate.
The MR's are still very eager to rotate. I can't really feel any difference after 1.06 because I don't put many miles on one car or track, but I did try the stock Stratos after the update and it still rotates on a dime.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
I must apologise, another member has me slightly riled up, and it escaped into this thread aswell...



I will definitely give a few stock MR's a go, I do have an F430 scud with only breathing mods as one my my ring weapons, so I'll try that.


In my opinion, MR's should be very eager to rotate, my experience of a 360 on a track experience day showed a very pointy turn in, with minimal steering input needed for a direction change, compounded when heavy on the brakes. ABS is going crazy at half brake pressure, and you can feel the rear wanting to rotate.

My Mrs drove a gallardo, and had a big moment on the brakes into a chicane, too late on the brakes caused her to have to turn in whilst still scrubbing speed, the rear let go, she saved it with a quick dab of oppo, but I would bet it would've been a different matter without all the stability electronics.

My point is they aren't making them 'better' in my opinion, they're making them easier.

But :cheers: I'll have a play about and see what I think 👍

Agree with all that. And what I meant by "better" is that I won't be quite as nervous when a Random is beside me in one going into a turn. :nervous: That doesn't mean they're more accurate and honestly I think they might be a bit too tame now.
 
I have to admit I was impressed with the FXX's mid-corner stability, but I didn't drive it before 1.06, and it has downforce and slicks, which is not my usual territory either.

Not noticed a real difference elsewhere yet, although the 3400S was very (surprisingly) composed on the Nurburgring I thought, even braking hard and initiating turning at the same time. Hadn't driven it there with a wheel before, though.

F40 at Monza no-chicane should tell me one way or the other, but that'll have to wait.
 

Johnnypenso

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Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Johnnypenso
I have to admit I was impressed with the FXX's mid-corner stability, but I didn't drive it before 1.06, and it has downforce and slicks, which is not my usual territory either.

Not noticed a real difference elsewhere yet, although the 3400S was very (surprisingly) composed on the Nurburgring I thought, even braking hard and initiating turning at the same time. Hadn't driven it there with a wheel before, though.

F40 at Monza no-chicane should tell me one way or the other, but that'll have to wait.
The 3400S is one of the most stable cars in the game on all compounds with a wheel (only driven it with a wheel) I drove the FXX early in the game on SS tires and also found it quite stable.
 
253
Poland
Białystok/PL//Kiel/DE
andryush
Hm, i would not say that MR cars are easy to drive now. Just took Toyota MR2 for some online racing, on stock settings and CH tyres it was nasty, but overall easy to control because of only 200hp. But when i raised power to 280hp, added new, racing suspension and even bought SS tyres, i had to put lot of effort to keep it on track.
 

Grand Prix

The Nut Behind the Wheel
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Vancouver, BC
GTP_Grand_Prix
I felt there was less feedback from the front tires of the Yellow Bird at the Nordscheliefe after the update. Sports hards, stock everything. The bumps were less noticeable or something. Harder to tell when it would let go. It was the first car I tried as I was just driving it before the update. At first I thought maybe the FFB was weakened a notch.

The GT40 Mark 1 is an entirely different beast from the first few months of the game. Much more stable. Custom transmission, other wise stock and on sports hards.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
Hm, i would not say that MR cars are easy to drive now. Just took Toyota MR2 for some online racing, on stock settings and CH tyres it was nasty, but overall easy to control because of only 200hp. But when i raised power to 280hp, added new, racing suspension and even bought SS tyres, i had to put lot of effort to keep it on track.

That's a short wheel-base car which could make it more twitchy than some. Try one of the Ferrari MR's which have longer wheel-bases, they are much easier to drive than they were last week and even more easier to drive than thy were a couple months ago. The biggest difference I notice is when it breaks loose, I used to have a hard time saving the back end if it misbehaved but now it's really no problem to reel it back in. Under cornering the difference isn't as drastic, but under braking and low traction moments it's much more composed.

I haven't had a chance to test any others, but the four Ferrari's I drove were noticeably easier to drive than they were last week. I raced the Europa recently and had a bit of a hard time with it, I'll give it a go tomorrow and see if I feel similar differences with it. 👍
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
All in for gravity change, more gravity added to game.

That's possible, the car felt heavier to me when it broke traction so it was easier to hang on too. When sliding it felt like the car was longer and felt more like a pendulum than a spinning top. I held a drift in a 430 Scuderia beautifully through all of Parabollica, I couldn't dream of doing that last week.