Updating a 25th Anniversary Mustang(56k warning)

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Every post you make pretty much confesses that you are delusional.

de·lu·sion/diˈlo͞oZHən/
Noun:

An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality

 

[Slash]

Every post you make pretty much confesses that you are delusional.

Well done, would you like a cookie?

 

[oopssorryy]

Well done, would you like a cookie?

Dibs on his cookie if he doesn't take it!

 

[Slash]

Dibs on his cookie if he doesn't take it!

 

[ghsnu]

Get rid of the 2.3 as quickly as you can. I have years of experience with 2.3T's (Merkur owner twice over) and they are just a pain. It seems like you can replace every single part and it still won't run right. Not only that, but they have the powerband of a diesel engine and sound like a forklift. If I were you, I'd try to get an SHO V6. They are cheap and can easily be made to run longitudinally and can handle a lot of power if you decide to turbocharge.

I hate this. My Mustang (whom was unlucky to have a 200 6cyl replace the typical 289) behaves the same way - no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, POWER, POWER, POWER, no power, no power, no power...shift! But its not as bad as my mom's Explorer - accelerator lags like a mofo, so a simple turn requires you to be on the throttle 2-3 seconds before you normally would.

Anyways: A friend of my has a '86 Mustang with the same engine, but with a 5 speed instead. We did a drag on an abandoned strip against my '98 S10 2.2L (automatic) and I just barely beat him. Not bad for a 26 year old POS (mine isn't much better).

Here's my recommendations:
If you're keeping the 2.3 - like everyone else- I'd recommend a low pressure turbo (if possible). If you want a racey, 200-300hp engine, get a larger (?) turbo and performance engine parts - ie: high-compression pistons, rods, heads, and stronger crankshaft to handle the higher compression. New intake, carburetor, and filter followed by headers and nice flowing exhaust (assuming you're fine with the annoying sound of a 4 banger) and you should have a decent motor. I'd imagine a flappy-paddle transmission is not possible without dumping tens of thousands of dollars into it - though sequential transmissions are probably possible, though rather pointless unless you're racing. A suspension upgrade is a must if you want a bit of a stiffer ride or are racing. A new differential is probably needed too to handle the power effectively.

If you're going to swap it out...have a deep pocket. Famous quote "speed costs, how fast do you want to go?":
Me being the Ferrari nut I am, I say find a small V12 and fabricate motor mounts and such to make it fit. Aside from that, if you're a bit experienced, swap whatever you want - with the most recent 5.0's probably being the best for fuel injection and 351's or 427's for carbureted engines (power wise). Of course, I can offer my 200 6cyl and you could go about buying some high-performance bits for it - as so I've heard from someone here...

It's easy to dream what you want - it's just the matter of having the money to do it. ATM, I'm in the process myself of swapping a 289 back into my Mustang with a few performance bits added.


*Note: Not experienced on forced induction or making a performance engine.

 

[Slash]

To be honest, the EFI 351's weren't too bad, but it all comes down to the heads really. Of course the lower deck height of years past did help.


And there IS NO POSSIBLE WAY a V12 will fit in that thing. A 460 will BARELY fit and 351's are pushing it as well. They are simply too long and too high (especailly the 351 and 460, won't fit without am aftermarket hood)

 

[Eric.]

Me being the Ferrari nut I am, I say find a small V12 and fabricate motor mounts and such to make it fit.

Probably the most accessible V12 would be either a Jaaaaaaguar unit (avoid like the plague unless you want your Mustang to be as finicky) or a BMW. And the BMW engine is pretty much crap.

Both pretty terrible ways to go.

 

[Dennisch]

Probably the most accessible V12 would be either a Jaaaaaaguar unit (avoid like the plague unless you want your Mustang to be as finicky) or a BMW. And the BMW engine is pretty much crap.

Both pretty terrible ways to go.

???

You have no idea what you are saying. Both those V12 engines are brilliant engines. Maybe not very powerful, but both pretty reliable.
The Jag engine just needs German electronics, and the BMW engine only needs oil.

But both will most likely not fit into that enginebay, unless one uses a hacksaw.

 

[Slash]

???

You have no idea what you are saying. Both those V12 engines are brilliant engines. Maybe not very powerful, but both pretty reliable.
The Jag engine just needs German electronics, and the BMW engine only needs oil.

But both will most likely not fit into that enginebay, unless one uses a hacksaw.

This is what you have to work with. No way to fit a V12 in there.

That's with a V8 already.

 

[Dennisch]

This model Mustang came with a V6 right? Instead of an L6?
But looking at the picture, a V12 will never ever ever ever ever fit, unless you cut out the firewall.

Btw.

Miata V12.

 

[Slash]

This model Mustang came with a V6 right? Instead of an L6?
But looking at the picture, a V12 will never ever ever ever ever fit, unless you cut out the firewall.

Yes it came with a V6. After 1980 the L6 was only offered in trucks.


The V8 in that is a 5.0 and a 5.0 is about 27 inches long if you include the flywheel and accessories. The average V12 is about 30 inches if it is a small bore. As you can see the 5.0 is a tight fit as it is, the onyl reason people stuff 351's in there is because they are only a fraction taller deck height and same length and it will make gobs of power for cheap.

@Dennisch

Still need a custom hood, and with the accessories and fan that will be an extremely tight squeeze.

 

[Antonisbob]

You have no idea what you're talking about.
the only "American motor" I know being used in foreign cars is the LS series, and thats not because it sounds good.
It's relatively cheap, lots of TORQUE, and is usually used in drift cars to make pretty smoke.

I'd rather have a 1UZ V8 a majority of those engines you named.
DOn't get me started with J series motors.

As for Hondas.....Hondas have some of the best motors when it comes to modifications
B16, B18, K20, J series.....

Yea, well I don't like Hon-duhs, I'd only buy one to make the biggest ricer ever out if it.




There's two fine examples of American engines in foreign cars that aren't a LS series.

I'd rather have a 1UZ V8 a majority of those engines you named.

I don't even know what that is, say for example you're building a mud truck... Dodge Ram charger.. why wouldn't you use a 318? They're bullet proof, and there's over 40 years of evidence to back that up.

Or, another example, you've got a '67 Suicide-Door Lincoln you're building for a demolition derby at the local state fair, I'm sure you'll use a 1UZ in that instead of a Ford 400 C.I. or similar engine..

Actually, I know a guy who runs in one of the derby's around here, he used a 350 in one of his Lincoln's few years back.

 

[Slash]

400m's in stock form are nothing to write home about. Throw a carb, headers and intake and you've got a pretty stout motor though.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Here's my recommendations:
If you're keeping the 2.3 - like everyone else- I'd recommend a low pressure turbo (if possible). If you want a racey, 200-300hp engine, get a larger (?) turbo and performance engine parts - ie: high-compression pistons, rods, heads, and stronger crankshaft to handle the higher compression. New intake, carburetor, and filter followed by headers and nice flowing exhaust (assuming you're fine with the annoying sound of a 4 banger) and you should have a decent motor. I'd imagine a flappy-paddle transmission is not possible without dumping tens of thousands of dollars into it - though sequential transmissions are probably possible, though rather pointless unless you're racing. A suspension upgrade is a must if you want a bit of a stiffer ride or are racing. A new differential is probably needed too to handle the power effectively.

You guys really, really need to learn more before blindly shouting out advice on a public forum. These threads get worse every day.

A 2.3 Ford engine is not a small block ford or chevy. You cannot just order a head (not heads, there is only one!) and rods from a jegs catalog. The parts are not really available. I think esslinger makes a head for the 2.3, but it's too expensive to consider. Raising compression ratio with a turbocharger is a very bad idea. You would want to lower it. The 2.3 is EFI, so doing any sort of carb, especially with a turbocharger will be way more trouble then it's worth. Finally, a turbocharger makes a header (again, not headers, because only one bank of cylinders) basically pointless. Any gains you would get from harmonic tuning are canceled out by the impeller wheel that is in the exhaust stream.

And a V12 is not remotely realistic. Possible? Maybe. The engine would likely be too long to fit in a stock fox-body engine bay. You would probably have to cut into the firewall. Then you would have to adapt it to fit the rest of the car. It would cost probably $20,000 or more. Don't even think about it.

I don't even know what that is, say for example you're building a mud truck... Dodge Ram charger.. why wouldn't you use a 318? They're bullet proof, and there's over 40 years of evidence to back that up.

Or, another example, you've got a '67 Suicide-Door Lincoln you're building for a demolition derby at the local state fair, I'm sure you'll use a 1UZ in that instead of a Ford 400 C.I. or similar engine..

Actually, I know a guy who runs in one of the derby's around here, he used a 350 in one of his Lincoln's few years back.

It's not our fault you don't know a good engine.





And yes, they are also bullet proof. Same goes for the Nissan VH45.

Also, if you were entering a 1967 Lincoln Continental into a demolition derby, I would hunt you down.

 

[Tornado]

Yea, well I don't like Hon-duhs, I'd only buy one to make the biggest ricer ever out if it.




There's two fine examples of American engines in foreign cars that aren't a LS series.

I see a bike-engined car with its engine replaced with another bike engine (most likely out of convenience to acquire than any particular value of the engine itself) and what basically amounts to a 300ZX that is completely and thoroughly beat to hell and was almost certainly put together just because the guys doing it were bored.


Of all the probably thousands of examples you could have used...

I don't even know what that is, say for example you're building a mud truck... Dodge Ram charger.. why wouldn't you use a 318? They're bullet proof, and there's over 40 years of evidence to back that up.

Or, another example, you've got a '67 Suicide-Door Lincoln you're building for a demolition derby at the local state fair, I'm sure you'll use a 1UZ in that instead of a Ford 400 C.I. or similar engine..

Actually, I know a guy who runs in one of the derby's around here, he used a 350 in one of his Lincoln's few years back.

Because those are totally two examples with wide reaching applications.

 

[Slash]

And a V12 is not remotely realistic. Possible? Maybe. The engine would likely be too long to fit in a stock fox-body engine bay. You would probably have to cut into the firewall. Then you would have to adapt it to fit the rest of the car. It would cost probably $20,000 or more. Don't even think about it.

This was the point I was getting at.

 

[Antonisbob]

No, it's nobody's fault I haven't heard of a great engine, I have never seen one of those engines in real life before, all the car people I know probably have never heard of it, it's obviously not very popular in my parts.

This is Canada, you know what we have here? Hockey, beavers and igloos. All of which I don't care about.

Because those are totally two examples with wide reaching applications.

What's that supposed to mean? People do those things every day.

On a side note, where's the OP in all this?

 

[Eric.]

I like that it's a big deal to fit a BMW V12 into a Foxbody. That's cute.

Paul Wood is working on a BMW 850 V12 into a 2nd generation MR2.

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=145763&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Edit: So, the best example of a "performance" application that requires a "good engine" is a demo derby? You know the best engine for a demo derby? The cheapest running one you can find. And since there are 50 years of SBCs rotting in junkyards, that's pretty much the immediate choice. I'm sure you don't see LS7s being used in demo derbies, so that's probably an inferior engine to your cousin's husband's brother's dad's ol' 350 out in the backyard behind the hog house.

And a mud truck...yeahh...that's another one of those "hmm I have $307.12, what kinda motor can I get?" options.

Just because it's old, cheap, and American, means nothing.

 

[Joey D]

They've also crammed an Aston Martin V12 in a 2005 Mustang:

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

No, it's nobody's fault I haven't heard of a great engine, I have never seen one of those engines in real life before, all the car people I know probably have never heard of it, it's obviously not very popular in my parts.

This is Canada, you know what we have here? Hockey, beavers and igloos. All of which I don't care about.



What's that supposed to mean? People do those things every day.

On a side note, where's the OP in all this?

You've never seen a Lexus LS400 or SC400 before?

 

[Antonisbob]

You've never seen a Lexus LS400 or SC400 before?

I don't pay attention to new cars, they're all ugly in my eyes, nor does anyone I know own a Lexus, and I've never seen one at a car show with the hood up and asked the owner "What type of engine is that?". Sorry.

 

[Slash]

I don't pay attention to new cars, they're all ugly in my eyes, nor does anyone I know own one, and I've seen one at a car show with the hood up and asked the owner "What type of engine is that?". Sorry.

Agreed.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

I believe the OP realized that asking advice on GTP isn't the best possible idea because of the sheer quantity of all kinds of fanboys and fanatics here. IMHO, he'd be better off in a pure car forum.

 

[Antonisbob]

Okay, okay, I understand your point of view. I'll stop running my trap.

And a mud truck...yeahh...that's another one of those "hmm I have $307.12, what kinda motor can I get?" options.

If I can get that kind of performance for under a grand, then I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

[Slash]

That really pissed me off...about the mud truck thing. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Sanji Himura]

On a side note, where's the OP in all this?

I'm just sitting by and listening. I am at the point now in my resto where I need to raise funds for parts, and finish restoration on my father's car (a 1963 Ford Galaxie) before I can do any serious lead way.

EDIT: Sure, I can go ahead and replace the rear end, but this car is considered a daily driver for now until that Galaxie is finished.

 

[Antonisbob]

I believe the OP realized that asking advice on GTP isn't the best possible idea because of the sheer quantity of all kinds of fanboys and fanatics here. IMHO, he'd be better off in a pure car forum.

About my thoughts exactly at this point.

May I recommend these, perhaps?
http://foxbodyforum.com/
http://mustangforums.com/

That really pissed me off...about the mud truck thing. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Not sure who that was directed at, but I'll be the first to admit that most of the engines are worth more than my whole car.

I'm just sitting by and listening. I am at the point now in my resto where I need to raise funds for parts, and finish restoration on my father's car (a 1963 Ford Galaxie) before I can do any serious lead way.

EDIT: Sure, I can go ahead and replace the rear end, but this car is considered a daily driver for now until that Galaxie is finished.

I see, good luck with things. I'd like to see pictures of both cars someday!

 

[Slash]

To Eric. lol They are worth a lot. Apparently he hasn't built a mud truck, so he wouldn't know how much it costs.

 

[nobuffalo]

The truck in the video isn't your average mud truck, which is usually some rusted out 80s Chevy that starts cutting out the second it hits the pit and doesn't even have enough power to clear their way too fat tires of mud, turning them into big slicks, all while dragging the axles and pushing 2 feet of mud with the bumper. Go to your typical family mud run and that's what you'll find.

This has turned into one of the dumbest threads ever.

 

[ghsnu]

You guys really, really need to learn more before blindly shouting out advice on a public forum. These threads get worse every day.

A 2.3 Ford engine is not a small block ford or chevy. You cannot just order a head (not heads, there is only one!) and rods from a jegs catalog. The parts are not really available. I think esslinger makes a head for the 2.3, but it's too expensive to consider. Raising compression ratio with a turbocharger is a very bad idea. You would want to lower it. The 2.3 is EFI, so doing any sort of carb, especially with a turbocharger will be way more trouble then it's worth. Finally, a turbocharger makes a header (again, not headers, because only one bank of cylinders) basically pointless. Any gains you would get from harmonic tuning are canceled out by the impeller wheel that is in the exhaust stream.

See here:

*Note: Not experienced on forced induction or making a performance engine.

I know a turbo operates off the exhaust and therefore shovels air into the engine at at a certain RPM band for more power. Never read anywhere on headers - excuse me - a header would cause trouble with a turbo. Nor did I know of the lack of parts.

And a V12 is not remotely realistic. Possible? Maybe. The engine would likely be too long to fit in a stock fox-body engine bay. You would probably have to cut into the firewall. Then you would have to adapt it to fit the rest of the car. It would cost probably $20,000 or more. Don't even think about it.

And again:

If you're going to swap it out...have a deep pocket. Famous quote "speed costs, how fast do you want to go?"

Didn't emphasize on actually putting a V12 in - I guess sarcasm is hard to follow on the internet. It was a simple idea coming from my love for Ferrari and their narcotic V12's that sound oh-so-delicious. It's possible, yes, but only with a 🤬 ton of money and access to various fabrication tools.


Well, learned something new, and also ended up being treated like a know-nothing. May as well just shut up now.