US supercar-maker aims to topple Veyron

[McLaren]

I take it SSC has no relation to the Thrust SSC? Or have I trodden on old ground?

SSC is Shelby Super Cars, so most assume it's Carroll's work, though it isn't.

It may well beat the Veyron for outright speed, but that's not much use if no-one buys one.

All these supercar makers crawling out the woodwork to beat Bugatti...

True, however, these SSCs are about $400,000-$500,000, so anyone who just wants a car to say, "My production car is faster" will be saving a little under $1,000,000.

LFS knows the Veyron warranty, I assume, so it may be better than SSC's current 1 year/unlimited miles warranty that is rumoured to change.

 

[Philly]

LFS knows the Veyron warranty, I assume, so it may be better than SSC's current 1 year/unlimited miles warranty that is rumoured to change.

I know we have been over some of this, but I think the Veyron is more than just a top-speed-record holder. The warranty is one thing. Once you build a car that is more reliable, more luxurious, faster, more driveable, has better service, more useable, easier to recognize, safer, better looking, and finds way around handicaps (weight in this case), you will have a Veyron beater in my book. Taking away one portion of the Veyron's thunder will not send Bugatti to the block. I think the SSC has no chance of besting the Veyron in half of these categories.

The thing about the veyron is that it is a supercar, a grand-tourer and a daily driver all in one. The next car I can think of that comes close to being all three come from Aston Martin, which I would definitly own before the SSC.

 

[YSSMAN]

Once you build a car that is more reliable, more luxurious, faster, more driveable, has better service, more useable, easier to recognize, safer, better looking, and finds way around handicaps (weight in this case), you will have a Veyron beater in my book.... The thing about the veyron is that it is a supercar, a grand-tourer and a daily driver all in one.

Exactly. Given that none of these other cars that have attempted to run with the Veyron are practically useless as an everyday car, its hard to really beat the car in question.

Does that mean it can't be done? No, certainly not. But it makes it that much harder, and certainly is part of the reason why the Veyron is so special.

Sure, the SSC may be able to go north of 250 MPH, but when it comes to driving it through a city, or hell even driving into McDonalds, I doubt it would be any good at it. Not that the Veyron would be the best option, but you could do it...

 

[Dave A]

LFS knows the Veyron warranty, I assume, so it may be better than SSC's current 1 year/unlimited miles warranty that is rumoured to change.

It's virtually the same 3 year warranty VW offer with the Golf.

 

[McLaren]

I know we have been over some of this, but I think the Veyron is more than just a top-speed-record holder. The warranty is one thing. Once you build a car that is more reliable, more luxurious, faster, more driveable, has better service, more useable, easier to recognize, safer, better looking, and finds way around handicaps (weight in this case), you will have a Veyron beater in my book. Taking away one portion of the Veyron's thunder will not send Bugatti to the block. I think the SSC has no chance of besting the Veyron in half of these categories.

The only reason the Veyron achieved all those is because VAG's multi-millions were behind it.

I guarantee you, put that same money behind anyone else, BMW, Mercedes, SSC, the Caparo, and you'll get something near those.

The thing about the veyron is that it is a supercar, a grand-tourer and a daily driver all in one. The next car I can think of that comes close to being all three come from Aston Martin, which I would definitly own before the SSC.

I agree with the first 2. Daily driver? No. Not unless you consider a 7 miles to the gallon tank good for daily driving which roughly leads to 184 miles before refueling.

 

[the Interceptor]

Daily driver? No. Not unless you consider a 7 miles to the gallon tank good for daily driving which roughly leads to 184 miles before refueling.

Agreed, but a daily driver in terms that it won't scare the **** out of you every few miles in comparison to the power it has.

 

[Dave A]

It's as much of a daily driver as I think you can realistically get in a supercar currently. It's like the Golf GTi and civic Type-R, the Civic was a great car to drive, but as an every day car it lost out to the Golf because the Golf didn't want to go kicking and screaming all the time.

 

[McLaren]

It's as much of a daily driver as I think you can realistically get in a supercar currently. It's like the Golf GTi and civic Type-R, the Civic was a great car to drive, but as an every day car it lost out to the Golf because the Golf didn't want to go kicking and screaming all the time.

What about the Murcielago LP640? It's pretty equal as well.

It gets 9-10 to the street and 14-16 to the highway (combined=11-12) while the Veyron gets 7-8 on the street and 15 on the highway (combined=10).

So by then, it comes down to price if you wanted to. On average, it's est. the Veyron costs $6.90 to drive 25 miles. The LP640 is est. at $5.75. The other LP640 (quoted as manual) gets $6.27.

So really, you can get a daily driver in the LP640 more than you can the Veyron. Sure, you don't get all that fancy interior work and 250Mph claim, but that shouldn't come into play when you're discussing which is better for daily driving given both interiors are nice (The Veyron is probably more; I can't judge though. I've never really even seen the Veyron's interior in person), and you'll never reach either's top speed daily driving.

 

[the Interceptor]

I think the Veyron is more comfortable and quieter than the LP640. Still a fabulous car that ... the Lambo I mean.

 

[Diablomonkey]

Source: AutoCar

Little-known American supercar maker SSC is aiming to put its name up in lights by setting a new production car maximum speed record, and unseating the 253mph Bugatti EB16.4 Veyron in the process.

The company is planning to close down a 12-mile stretch of Nevada’s Highway 93 on March 21 for the first run at the Veyron’s record. SSC’s weapon of choice for the task is a specially prepared version of its Ultimate Aero supercar, prepared by MKM Racing. Powered by a twin-turbocharged 6.3-litre V8, it puts out a staggering 1183bhp along with 1094lb ft of torque.

The low slung two-seater has already been tested at NASA’s wind tunnel in Langley, Virginia where it is claimed to have shown the potential for a top speed of 273mph. However, it remains to be seen whether it can achieve that figure on the road.

Existing performance claims for the Ultimate Aero put its 0-60mph time at 2.78sec and 0-100mph time at just 11.66sec. Its standing quarter mile time is claimed to be 9.90secs, with a terminal speed of 144mph.

Can someone tell me how that is? 0-100 in 11.66 sec. but will so the 1/4 mile in 9.90 sec. at 144?

 

[Dave A]

What about the Murcielago LP640? It's pretty equal as well.

It gets 9-10 to the street and 14-16 to the highway (combined=11-12) while the Veyron gets 7-8 on the street and 15 on the highway (combined=10).

So by then, it comes down to price if you wanted to. On average, it's est. the Veyron costs $6.90 to drive 25 miles. The LP640 is est. at $5.75. The other LP640 (quoted as manual) gets $6.27.

So really, you can get a daily driver in the LP640 more than you can the Veyron. Sure, you don't get all that fancy interior work and 250Mph claim, but that shouldn't come into play when you're discussing which is better for daily driving given both interiors are nice (The Veyron is probably more; I can't judge though. I've never really even seen the Veyron's interior in person), and you'll never reach either's top speed daily driving.

Erm, no. I didn't mention mpg, how good a car is at being a daily driver does not rest soley on the cars mpg. If that were the case then a Lotus Elise would be a better daily car than a Lexus IS300, which is simply not true. The comparison I made with the Golf and Type-R should have made it pretty clear as to what I was getting at, but even that doesn't cover everything.

 

[Philly]

Can someone tell me how that is? 0-100 in 11.66 sec. but will so the 1/4 mile in 9.90 sec. at 144?

I think we have concluded that this is an error. Think 6.XX seconds.

Erm, no. I didn't mention mpg, how good a car is at being a daily driver does not rest soley on the cars mpg. If that were the case then a Lotus Elise would be a better daily car than a Lexus IS300, which is simply not true. The comparison I made with the Golf and Type-R should have made it pretty clear as to what I was getting at, but even that doesn't cover everything.

And how about the Hummer. Based on the MPG ratings, Hummers would be the worst daily drivers to have. Military aside, they are almost always used for Grocery store runs and driving around. How about SUVs in general. Why would there be so many over here if their mileage made them such bad daily drivers?

The MPG argument can be better understood in Europe, where the goal is to achieve amazing mileage. Over there, gas mileage will play a much bigger role when car shopping. Besides, the Prius would be the car to have if MPG determined driveability.

 

[YSSMAN]

So really, you can get a daily driver in the LP640 more than you can the Veyron. Sure, you don't get all that fancy interior work and 250Mph claim, but that shouldn't come into play when you're discussing which is better for daily driving given both interiors are nice (The Veyron is probably more; I can't judge though. I've never really even seen the Veyron's interior in person), and you'll never reach either's top speed daily driving.

AN LP640 as a daily driver? I hope it has E-Gear, otherwise that car isn't going anywhere with the 'average' driver. My Mother could probably get into a Bugatti and do fine, but the Lambo? Its tough to say...

When the Bugatti is as easy to drive as a Jetta, and yet is that freaking fast, that is impressive no-less...

 

[McLaren]

Erm, no. I didn't mention mpg, how good a car is at being a daily driver does not rest soley on the cars mpg. If that were the case then a Lotus Elise would be a better daily car than a Lexus IS300, which is simply not true. The comparison I made with the Golf and Type-R should have made it pretty clear as to what I was getting at, but even that doesn't cover everything.

I know you didn't. However, my point is that the Veyron is not the best supercar daily driver you can get when a LP640 that will match it in driveability.

Think about it. We're talking about daily driving. Daily Driving is a topic that is based purely on a few things. Mileage, quality, and capability.

In mileage, both the Veyron are equal in terms of driving every day since both their MPGs are pretty equal.
In quality, yes, I will give the Veyron this part, even though you get what you pay for. If you saw a LP640 at that price from the factory, it might be the same.
In Capability, I'm giving it a tie since both cars do have the "rise" ability to raise the bumpers over bumps, and both are large cars.

Besides, you CAN NOT compare a daily driver supercar next to some sport hatches being daily drivers. Why? Because those little sports cars can be daily drivers! BOTH of them! All their compeitiors CAN!

But when you're taking about daily drivers and supercars, you can't just compare a car where daily driving is incorporated into it. Supercar makers though, just aren't as focused on their cars being daily driven because they know their cars will not be daily driven by all their customers or even half.

That's why when you said, "It's as much of a daily driver as I think you can realistically get in a supercar currently" I replied that's not that true unless you count the Murcielago LP640 along side it because both have equal mileage, both are about the same as being capable of driving certain roads, and both are pretty equal in their quality for what you pay.

You just can't compare daily driving and the most daily driveable supercar because that supercar (Veyron, Lambo., or anyone else) just don't compare to an actual daily driveable sports car like the Golf or Civic Type R because both those little cars will go a lot farther in a "Daily Driving" Comparison.

 

[Philly]

I'm not quite getting what you are saying. Driveability has to be a part of being a good daily driver. You have to be able to drive your car to be a daily driver, and driveability should be the most improtant part of being a daily driver. I've heard that supercars can be a handful, and you will want something that will not take total concentration to keep from stalling or burning out or spinning at every light/corner. Sure, other supercars may be driveable, but the Veyron seems to be the one that will seem most at home on the street and not pretending it is at a track at all times.

Are those three factors relevant? Yes. Are they what will determine if a car is streetable? Not so much.

No, the Veyron is not as daily driverable as some sport hatches, but it is a car that I would feel very comfortable taking on the road, unlike some other cars.

 

[Dave A]

I know you didn't. However, my point is that the Veyron is not the best supercar daily driver you can get when a LP640 that will match it in driveability.

Think about it. We're talking about daily driving. Daily Driving is a topic that is based purely on a few things. Mileage, quality, and capability.

Access, parking, comfort and more.

In mileage, both the Veyron are equal in terms of driving every day since both their MPGs are pretty equal.
In quality, yes, I will give the Veyron this part, even though you get what you pay for. If you saw a LP640 at that price from the factory, it might be the same.
In Capability, I'm giving it a tie since both cars do have the "rise" ability to raise the bumpers over bumps, and both are large cars.

But the Murcielago is a bigger car than the Veyron, it's 6cm wider than the Veyron and nearly 15cm longer than the Veyron. Also it's power is delivered much higher up the rev range than the Veyrons.

Besides, you CAN NOT compare a daily driver supercar next to some sport hatches being daily drivers.

Why not? The coparison makes a pretty good analogy imo.

Why? Because those little sports cars can be daily drivers! BOTH of them! All their compeitiors CAN!

Any car can, an Ariel Atom can. To call a car a daily driver simply means it can be driven daily. The variable is how practical and suitable it is.

That's why when you said, "It's as much of a daily driver as I think you can realistically get in a supercar currently" I replied that's not that true unless you count the Murcielago LP640 along side it because both have equal mileage, both are about the same as being capable of driving certain roads, and both are pretty equal in their quality for what you pay.

Purchase price has nothing to with how usable a car is day to day. The bottom line is the Veyron is more practical for town driving than the LP640.

 

[Tornado]

You just can't compare daily driving and the most daily driveable supercar because that supercar (Veyron, Lambo., or anyone else) just don't compare to an actual daily driveable sports car like the Golf or Civic Type R because both those little cars will go a lot farther in a "Daily Driving" Comparison.

Actually, I've read that the Veyron was very similar to the Golf inside, other than the absurd extras.

 

[McLaren]

Access, parking, comfort and more.

Access Parking=Capability.
Comfort=Quality
More=Mileage & trunk space.

Why repeat what I've already said?

But the Murcielago is a bigger car than the Veyron, it's 6cm wider than the Veyron and nearly 15cm longer than the Veyron. Also it's power is delivered much higher up the rev range than the Veyrons.

True, but the Veyron is still a big car itself.

BTW, your figures are off. The LP640 is only 5cm longer and 2-3cm wider.
So, in essence, my fact that they're both equal in size is pretty much still legit.

Why not? The coparison makes a pretty good analogy imo.

No it doesn't. You say the Veyron is about as much a daily driverable supercar as you can get. Then you bring up the Golf and Civic and say the Veyron everyday driveablitiy is like those two.

It's not. You can not compare the Veyron's everyday driveability to either two, because Bugatti wasn't making their car to be daily driven like those.

Those 2 have have the trunk space, mileage, everyday road capabilities, and just enough comfort to be used everyday.

A Veyron though, doesn't. It's mileage is only good for a supercar, it won't take kindly to roads in cities, it's trunk space probably isn't that big, and all that's left is comfort.

Any car can, an Ariel Atom can. To call a car a daily driver simply means it can be driven daily. The variable is how practical and suitable it is.

You can drive an Ariel Atom daily but I'm talking in realistic sense, as you won't really drive an Atom everyday, esp. in the rain.

Why I talk about everyday driving, I mean all the conditions that come with driving everyday. How will the Veyron do in traffic? How many times will you need gas? Can you get the car over certain obstacles? Is it going to get in the space?

The fact remains though is that when you talked about 2 sport hatches, those cars could be daily driven, every single day. They're small, get great mileage, have enough road clearence, great trunk space, and more. A Veyron though, does not have that. It's trunk space probably isn't that great, gets awful mileage to be driven every single day, road clearence is barely solved through hydraulics, and the way people park these days, it'll be an amazement if you get an a space and actually get the doors half-way out.

See what I'm saying now?

Purchase price has nothing to with how usable a car is day to day. The bottom line is the Veyron is more practical for town driving than the LP640.

I WASN'T talking about purchase in that sense. I was saying, if a LP640 was the same price, it'd probably be of the same quality on the inside.


BTW, prove it. A LP640 is cheaper, has hydraulics over speed bumps, great interior, trunk space that is probably only centimeters smaller than the Veyron, and has better gas mileage.

So tell me how the Veyron is so much more practical when both cars are large, gas guzzling machines?

 

[jammyozzy]

To be honest, I don't think you can compare the Veyron with the Murcielago. Or the LP640. Or the McLaren F1, the XJ220 or whatever the monstrosity in the original post is. To me, the only car you can compare the Bugatti Veyron to is this:

The Bugatti Royale.

I think this car sums up everything that reprented, and should continue to represent, Bugatti road cars. The Royale is absoultely huge, with an overall length of almost 21'. It has a massive 12.7 litre engine that produced 300hp at a time when contemporary sports cars were struggling to reach 100hp. The engine was technologically advanced too, with 3 valves per cylinder and an overhead camshaft in 1929. All this power is needed however, because it weighs a preposterous 3.2 tonnes and could hit 125mph. It was designed and created as the last word in luxury and comfort, and to hell with the cost.

I don't think there's any denying that at least some of these traits are clearly visible in the Veyron. Perhaps there's none of Ettore Bugatti's natural design flair, but the technology, the luxury and the sheer excessiveness of the Royale is continued in the Veyron, and as a result the Veyron is as unique today as the Royale was 70 odd years ago.

Sorry, I think I just went off on one slightly there, but I'm tired of people trying to make the comparison between the Veyron and any given supercar.

 

[Dave A]

Access Parking=Capability.
Comfort=Quality
More=Mileage & trunk space.

Why repeat what I've already said?

I missunderstood you.

True, but the Veyron is still a big car itself.

BTW, your figures are off. The LP640 is only 5cm longer and 2-3cm wider.
So, in essence, my fact that they're both equal in size is pretty much still legit.

The Veyron is 1999mm wide and 4463mm long. The LP640 is 2058mm wide and 4610mm long.

No it doesn't. You say the Veyron is about as much a daily driverable supercar as you can get. Then you bring up the Golf and Civic and say the Veyron everyday driveablitiy is like those two.

I never said the Veyron was as drivable, I made an analogy between comparing the Veyron as an everyday car and the SSC ultimate areo to being similar to comparing a Golf GTi to a civic Type-R in principal. You really are reading far, far too much into my analogy.

You can drive an Ariel Atom daily but I'm talking in realistic sense, as you won't really drive an Atom everyday, esp. in the rain.

I can tihnk of someone right now who would dissagree with you.

Why I talk about everyday driving, I mean all the conditions that come with driving everyday. How will the Veyron do in traffic? How many times will you need gas? Can you get the car over certain obstacles? Is it going to get in the space?

It would do all the things I use my 306 and Bora for except carry more than two people. I don't see any reason the Veyron wouldn't do well in traffic, I can't think of a supercar that would do better. Of course you can drive any supercar in traffic but then you have supercars like the LP640 which have a high powerband and feel less happy when they're not using more of their revs.

See what I'm saying now?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the point I made.

I WASN'T talking about purchase in that sense. I was saying, if a LP640 was the same price, it'd probably be of the same quality on the inside.

You'd hope so wouldn't you, but the fact is that it's not.

BTW, prove it. A LP640 is cheaper, has hydraulics over speed bumps, great interior, trunk space that is probably only centimeters smaller than the Veyron, and has better gas mileage.

The fact that the Veyron is smaller, regardless of how much, means it's a more acessable car to get through gaps and to park. Also as I said before, the LP640's powerband is much higher up than the Veyrons, meaning that the Veyron is more happy a lower revs, amazingly that's much like the Golf compared to the Civic Type-R . Also theres the interior quality, while the LP640's isn't bad, the Veyrons is nicer, regardless of what the LP640's might have been if it cost more, it's not as nice as the Veyrons. Thoes things alone make the Veyron better on a daily basis. Sure the LP640 might not be far off in daily usability, but it still doesn't stack up as well.

So tell me how the Veyron is so much more practical when both cars are large, gas guzzling machines?

Just because they both are large gas guzzling machines doesn't mean that one can't be more everyday usable than the other .

 

[Tornado]

To me, the only car you can compare the Bugatti Veyron to is this:
*Real-Bugatti Pics*

Er, EB110?

 

[Philly]

I was thinking that the Veyron could be viewed like Aston Martin compared to the average above-par sports car. Maybe the Vanguish compared to the Elise or 911?

 

[Dave A]

Looks like it's failed it's first attempt.

March 26th, 2007-Just in are the results from SSC's first planned high speed run which they attempted on Nevada's Highway 93. Unfortunately, a snowstorm meant changing locations to an uneven road surface and the Areo was limited to 221 mph before its driver had to back off. Only using half throttle at that speed, the Aero's available 1183 bhp was massive and could spin the wheels at 190 in 6th gear! SSC's photographer reports that that they will try again for the production speed record at a better location in the near future.

 

[YSSMAN]

...And once again I state the obvious: They aren't going to be able to top 253.3 MPH on public roads anywhere in America. Weather and road quality will seek to stop it no matter where they are...

 

[McLaren]

Looks like it's failed it's first attempt.

You got to give them credit for a car that spins its wheels at 190Mph in 6th gear, something you never see in a car really.

I believe though, to YSSMAN, that they are picking roads because really, we don't have a track like Nardo in America. All of our ovals require braking.

 

[Dave A]

Something I wouldn't want to see either, it's not going to be that hard to make a car that can spin it's tyres at 190mph with over 1100bhp. The difficult task is making your 1100bhp+ car so it won't be spinning it's tyres so much. Think about it, if it can do that in 6th at 190, you've got no chance of containing the power in the lower gears. It's not a reason to hate the car, I for one like some lunacy mobiles, it'd be hypocritical of my to like TVRs so much if I used that kind of reasoning against this. But beyond the power giving you some sense of awe, it's not a big pro point thats call I'm saying.

 

[ND4SPD]

Wow, wheelspin at 190mph.....I'm sure they can do it if they find a better place to do it.....Have they not heard of Bonneville?!

 

[YSSMAN]

I believe though, to YSSMAN, that they are picking roads because really, we don't have a track like Nardo in America. All of our ovals require braking.

Well, yes and no. Daytona and Talladega should be able to accommodate north of 230 MPH on the back stretch, but yes there is a limit to how fast you can take the corners even in tracks that large...

Then again, Rusty was able to do over 230 MPH before he stopped racing in the Charger, and theory would suggest that the cars could run nearly 240 MPH in the draft...

...However, I think we can all agree thats a little too fast...

 

[McLaren]

Correct me if I'm wrong YSSMAN, but isn't Nardo also much, much, much, larger than most, if not all, of our oval speedways?

 

[Dave A]

Yep, here's a little tid bit from Wikipedia.

The ring located in Nardò is used as a test track for high speeds. At 12.5 km (just under 7.8 miles) and perfectly round, it is banked at such a degree that a driver often need not turn the wheel while driving. In essence, the driver drives as if in a straight line. Some extremely fast cars do require the steering wheel to be turned for example the Koenigsegg CCR which set a speed record for a production car at the Nardò Ring with the wheel at 30°. This record has since been beaten by the Bugatti Veyron, however the CCR holds the speed record for the Ring.

No production car I can think of would hit 240mph+ on any American oval. You would need not only the fantastic acceleration, but also the car to be setup for the banking so it would stay stable and carry speed through. The banking at the Nardo is done just so it minimises that effect, and you don't need to set the car up to run flat out around it.