Using the brake while drifting

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felix4787

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I've been using the Evo IV lately and have to use the brake a lot during the big u-turns like on Apricot Hill and the first one on Laguna Seca.

With FR, I can usually change my position easily with throttle control and countersteering... but with the awd i have to constantly use the brake to keep the car from understeering off the track.

My question is, does this show lack of skill and is there a better way to drift the awd?
 
Absolutely not. AWD drifting is a lot different from FR drifting. The most effective way to drift with AWD is to use both the brake and throttle together (often at the same time) to control the angle of the car. This allows you to stay spooled-up and keep you in the powerband even if you need to slow yourself to prevent hitting the outside at the exit. This is a lot harder on the dual shock controller since the brake button is not pressure-sensitive, but if you have a steering wheel it works beautifully. So if you don't have a wheel, go buy one =)
 
Im currently using my friends Mad Catz, yeh I know but I didnt have to pay anything for it and it's better than the dual shock.

I also have to use this when I try drifting FR with anything other than sims... but it's not nearly as drastic.
 
hey just wondering.... yea the lanevos are AWD but its front mount LSD does that make a difference on how to drift it, knowin that imprezzas are rear mounted LSD?
 
Most Evos in GT3 have open rear diffs for some reason and you can't change that. The front and center are both LSDs. That really frustrates me, they had better change that in GT4. I know an Evo fanatic who the first thing he does to any Evo he gets is weld all the diffs. You should be able to do that if you want to. Anyway, in the Impreza, I believe all three are LSDs. In real life, I don't think the Evo comes with an open diff in the rear. I'm speaking only from memory here so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
My only suggestion for an AWD drift car is to mix tires. I found it to be quite effective using SIMs, normal, or sports in the rear, and SS up front. You may have to adjust your style somewhat, but it works.
 
Nooooooooo, mix tires = bad. It results in an unbalanced car. Watch the replay and you'll understand immediately.
 
Originally posted by pergatory
Nooooooooo, mix tires = bad. It results in an unbalanced car. Watch the replay and you'll understand immediately.
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Yes, thankyou for stating what should be obvious. Mixing tires is a crutch. If you want to really understand the handling characteristics of the car, you will not mix tires. It just gives you a false sense of the cars handling, and makes for an unbalanced car IMO. ;)
 
Originally posted by silviadrifter
Yes, thankyou for stating what should be obvious. Mixing tires is a crutch. If you want to really understand the handling characteristics of the car, you will not mix tires. It just gives you a false sense of the cars handling, and makes for an unbalanced car IMO. ;)
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Hmmmmm.......mixing tires on FR/MR = BAD!!!!! But didn't you agree with me at one point that 4wd mixing could be a good thing??? It is obvious that it will unbalance the car, however, if you know how the car unbalances itself, can you not use THAT to your advantage???? Just some food for thought.
 
Originally posted by xsyorra
Hmmmmm.......mixing tires on FR/MR = BAD!!!!! But didn't you agree with me at one point that 4wd mixing could be a good thing??? It is obvious that it will unbalance the car, however, if you know how the car unbalances itself, can you not use THAT to your advantage???? Just some food for thought.
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I do agree that it works, and can make it easier for some, but ultimately it's just trickery. I guess I'm just a purist, but I like all my cars to be as realistic as possible, and I want to understand the base level handling characteristics for each car. That way I have a good place to start from, with my tuning, and I could even take that knowledge and loosely apply it to real life. ;)
 
Originally posted by silviadrifter
I do agree that it works, and can make it easier for some, but ultimately it's just trickery. I guess I'm just a purist, but I like all my cars to be as realistic as possible, and I want to understand the base level handling characteristics for each car. That way I have a good place to start from, with my tuning, and I could even take that knowledge and loosely apply it to real life. ;)
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Yeah, but even Tsuchiya says in the Drift Bible that it's ok to mix tires until you can afford a good set......but that was for FR/MR vehicles.
I doubt ANY of us will be drifting a high-Hp R34, or some other exotic any time soon in real-life. So, 6 in one, half-dozen the other.:sly:
 
Originally posted by xsyorra
Yeah, but even Tsuchiya says in the Drift Bible that it's ok to mix tires until you can afford a good set......but that was for FR/MR vehicles.
I doubt ANY of us will be drifting a high-Hp R34, or some other exotic any time soon in real-life. So, 6 in one, half-dozen the other.:sly:
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The key words: "until you can afford a good set." Meaning it's ok because you can't afford otherwise, which isn't the case in GT3 or so I should hope. Besides, in those cases the car is probably untuned anyway and handles very sloppy, so the point is that mixing tires can still get the job done but it's only a compromise between performance and affordability. Ask any real-life drifter and they will tell you the same. Putting cheap tires on the rear is for 16-year-olds doing donuts in the Safeway parking lot.
 
I mix tires from time to time. On the Chaser I use a higher horsepower setup with slightly "grippier" tires in the back than in the front. You don't really need any more than super-slicks in the front when drifting. If you have 600hp and super-grippy front tires, the car tends to grip too much with the front tires and it wants to spin. EDIT: My setup is kind of like running 225 tires in the front and 235's in the back.



-Mark
 
Originally posted by pergatory
The key words: "until you can afford a good set." Meaning it's ok because you can't afford otherwise, which isn't the case in GT3 or so I should hope. Besides, in those cases the car is probably untuned anyway and handles very sloppy, so the point is that mixing tires can still get the job done but it's only a compromise between performance and affordability. Ask any real-life drifter and they will tell you the same. Putting cheap tires on the rear is for 16-year-olds doing donuts in the Safeway parking lot.
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Thankyou, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. In GT3 or in real life, it's best to keep the tires same front and back. ;)
 
I use sims all the way around with a ~550hp car. Usually use the feint plus a braking entry, but unlike a FR the AWD drifts outward, or atleast in my case it does... hence the reason of the thread.
 
Originally posted by felix4787
I use sims all the way around with a ~550hp car. Usually use the feint plus a braking entry, but unlike a FR the AWD drifts outward, or atleast in my case it does... hence the reason of the thread.
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The reason that AWD drifts outward, is due to all the wheels spinning. A FR has the front wheels to use as kind of a pivot point, whereas AWD uses the front wheels spinning to do the same job as Countersteer. I personally prefer FR drifting to AWD. It's more of a challenge, and thus more fun IMO. ;)
 
To me, FR is less of a challenge. In my experiences if you dont have the perfect entry angle with AWD then it is hard to control and keep it smooth, but with FR you can easily change the direction of the drift as well as how long you drift.
 
If you set any car up well enough, you won't need either the accelerator or brake. It's rare when I actually NEED to control the trottle in a turn. To me it's all about the entry speed and entry angle.
 
If you dont use the accelerator or the brake while drifting, then you're not drifting, you're just sliding. I dont understand what you're trying to say.
 
yeah i notice that my entry point and angle make the most difference.. also about the mixing tires.. its opinion... I did some drifting in an mr-s in the rain (D.C. about 1 week ago little more) and found that if i put higher traction tires in the front it would be easier to control the drift since the mr-s is such a light car... especially in d.c.'s rock creek park where you dont have time to prepare your drifts..
 
Originally posted by felix4787
If you dont use the accelerator or the brake while drifting, then you're not drifting, you're just sliding. I dont understand what you're trying to say.
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I didn't say I didn't use them, I said I didn't NEED to control the throttle, my ZZII D-R-I-F-T-S just fine without me paying practically any attention to my throttle. Drifting in GT3 after a while is governed by experience, not skill.
 
funny i thought drifting was a controlled slide using wheight breaking or throttle to initiate it... so why do you have to use the break and the gas?
 
Originally posted by felix4787
To me, FR is less of a challenge. In my experiences if you dont have the perfect entry angle with AWD then it is hard to control and keep it smooth, but with FR you can easily change the direction of the drift as well as how long you drift.
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LOL, that's funny. You basicly just explained why FR is more challenging. With AWD, you just make sure you have a good angle at the beginning of the turn, then just floor it, and use the brakes to control angle. With FR, you must use throttle control, braking, and countersteering to do the same task. Also, the most difficult part of FR drifting is, keeping the drift smooth and fluid for the duration. Most people can drift FR some of the time, but being able to drift smooth all of the time, is what skill is all about. With AWD, the drifts pretty much always look smooth, unless you have no skill whatsoever, in which case you should just put the controller down IMO. ;)
 
Originally posted by Seito4Counter
what does IMO mean? P.S. Real life 4wd drifting is not so easy!... bakayaro..
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IMO, In MY Opinion. Also, If I'm not mistaken we are talking about drifting in GT3 not IRL. ;)
 
Originally posted by Seito4Counter
what does IMO mean? P.S. Real life 4wd drifting is not so easy!... bakayaro..
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Watch out with the language there ;)

Originally posted by Seito4Counter
funny i thought drifting was a controlled slide using wheight breaking or throttle to initiate it... so why do you have to use the break and the gas?
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The reason why drifters use both brake an gas with a 4WD car is to keep the turbo boost up so there wouldn't be any turbo lag when the throttle is floored again.

Check this out: http://www.gwinbeer.com/drifting/vids/Thio.R34.WMV

Instead of releasing the throttle to keep the drift angle, just press the brake slightly so that the car can keep the drift angle throughout the turn. pergatory put a video up of Rhy Millen's (sp?)EVO VII drifting with no countersteer and controlling the drift angle with only the throttle and brake.
 
sumimasen... and i figured out IRL woohoo... and yeah i know about the throttle and turbo lag.. also keeping in high rpm for the next shift.. but i mean.. you dont have to have your foot on the gas to drift.. the car would just want to tuck in.. but if you have something heavy enough and you go in fast enough your inertia could get you through couldnt it?
 
Originally posted by Thio
Watch out with the language there ;)



The reason why drifters use both brake an gas with a 4WD car is to keep the turbo boost up so there wouldn't be any turbo lag when the throttle is floored again.

Check this out: http://www.gwinbeer.com/drifting/vids/Thio.R34.WMV

Instead of releasing the throttle to keep the drift angle, just press the brake slightly so that the car can keep the drift angle throughout the turn. pergatory put a video up of Rhy Millen's (sp?)EVO VII drifting with no countersteer and controlling the drift angle with only the throttle and brake.
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nice vid but i used to do that just by holding the gas and counter steer
 
Originally posted by Seito4Counter
but if you have something heavy enough and you go in fast enough your inertia could get you through couldnt it?
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Yes, you can go through the corner if you have something heavy enough and with enough momentum, but the question is whether or not you can clear it safely without damaging the car or the guardrails/walls ;)
 

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