V4 vs V6 in MPG?

  • Thread starter sicbeing
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Yeah, Camaros should drag race and not try to do anything stylish. :P

Plus I'm pretty sure Mustang's have bigger aftermarket for road course racing than f-bodies. Not to mention LS1 SS Camaros usually run over 10k in price, and I know he doesn't want an LT1 because optispark is retarded. I've wrenched on my buddies Camaro time after time because of that stupid opti-spark crap. Not to mention the Camaro has a pencil-neck 10-bolt rear, whereas the Mustangs have a MUCH beefier 8.8" rearend. The General lets you down when you mod your car, the Ford doesn't. Get a Mustang, you don't need a 6-speed. if you do, tranny swap.
 
Drifting Thunda
That's 302 FORD not Chevy...

Oops. I don't really know my V8s very well, I know it had a Chevy though, must have been some other size. Could it have been an LS/LT1?

sicbeing
If i end up getting a mustang for the SCCA, itll most likely be a V8 due to speculation on these boards. I'll keep the V8 in mind, but what do you mean all the power goes to one side? you mean left/right side?

Say if you're going around a corner and as you accelerate out of it the unloaded inside (less weight over it) wheel will have all the power sent to it and just spin. If you're planning on any sort of enthusiastic driving an LSD is an essential purchase because it means that you won't lose all your power coming out of corners and destroy your tires.

I still say go the MX5 :sly:
 
Miata's had an LSD option. And the LSD makes a massive difference in Autocrossing.

Mustangs do seem to have a better aftermarket for road racing and the likes.

I still say get a Miata.
 
Well.

Mustang = A lot more stock Power
Miata = Less weight and more manuverabilty

Mustang = Civic-like aftermarket parts
Miata = Gay

Lol. I don't know which one I'd get, I don't know all the comparisons. But, chances are I'll get a Miata depending on the deals I can find, only because I like less weight instead of higher heavier power, even though the Mustang can be much more powerful with stock engine I think.
 
The Miata/MX5 is an ideal way to learn about the finer points of enthusiastic RWD motoring. They have a great balance and few handling gremlins.

I would have thought it better to develop your skills in a lighter, less powerful car and then increase the cars power as you get more used to it - than dropping yourself into the deepend with something with more power than you can handle.

Don't worry what others think of the Miata, take one on some twisty backroads (not that i can remember there being any in Florida) and you'll have a massive smile on your face from the cars sublime handling.

Remember - when it comes to all-round performance, power-weight is king. Although quite underpowered as stock, the Miata is much lighter then a Mustang. All that money you save on fuel you can spend on improving the Miata.
 
True cracker. Thanks.

I might start looking around sometime within the next month or two. I already have 5 buyers for my car, anywhere from 1200 to 1600.

-EDIT-

When I buy the Miata I actually hope I won't have to sell my civic. You know, for a town - cruising car, and keep the Miata for mods/racing. First things I'd do to it is make it's weight even less, hopefully a new Hood (aluminum is pretty light, but I don't know what i'll be able to find). Should I worry about it being a convertable? Or all miata's convertables? I figure less weight witha convertable.

But some ideas I had for less weight was the hood, racing seats, low weight wheels, and etc. Any other ideas for lowering the weight?
 
sicbeing
When I buy the Miata I actually hope I won't have to sell my civic. You know, for a town - cruising car, and keep the Miata for mods/racing. First things I'd do to it is make it's weight even less, hopefully a new Hood (aluminum is pretty light, but I don't know what i'll be able to find). Should I worry about it being a convertable? Or all miata's convertables? I figure less weight witha convertable.

But some ideas I had for less weight was the hood, racing seats, low weight wheels, and etc. Any other ideas for lowering the weight?

I think thats a very good call 👍

All Miatas are convertables (although you can buy removable hard tops for them) incidentally most convertables, the ones that are convertable versions of regular hardtops, will almost certainly be heavier than the hard top version, you would'nt have thought so would you! Manufactures have to strengthen the shell of a convertable because removing the roof takes away alot of the shells rigidity, i digress.

You'd be best asking around the Miata forums for weight reduction ideas, and what you can and can't do as far as regulations go if you're planning on any motorsport.

I would have thought that glass fibre or carbon fibre (more expensive) hood and trunk lids will save you a good chunk of weight, as would adding racing seats and getting rid of stuff like A/C (perhaps unrealistic in Florida) Alloy hoods are lighter than steel, but not as light as glass/carbon fibre and are expensive to buy and a bugger to fix if damaged.

Magnesium wheels are a good (if expensive) buy as they reduce the overall weight of the car, but more importantly reduces the 'unsprung' weight of the car which helps a great deal with the handling. Racers will always get rid of unessasary trim from a car to further reduce the weight. Stuff like trunk carpets, sound deadening from under the hood and the spare wheel (if legal for road use in the US?) If your going to run it on the road as well you may not want to get rid of stereos, floor carpet, door trim like a true out-and-out race car would - but it all helps.

This first link looks right up you street:
http://members.aol.com/solomiata/index.html

http://www.flyinmiata.com/
http://www.miata.net/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5361/
http://list.miatapower.net/wws/arc/miatapower
http://www.flyinmiata.com/news/links.php
 
Drifting Thunda
Well the V8 models have LSD to begin with. LSDs I think cost something like $180 for nice ones but they generally should be installed professionally. So prolly at least $300 including labor.

My suggestion, and this is what I would do if I were you, is to look around for a '94-'95 Cobra 5.0L HO. The 5.0L is lighter than the 4.6L, and it has cheaper aftermarket for motor stuff. The Cobra is better for SCCA over a regular GT because it's beefier and can handle more stress in all areas, and it has independant rear suspension among other handling upgrades over a GT. SVT badges mean more than just more horsepower, SVT always strives to make their cars handle much better and endure more thrashing. Plus Cobras have 6-speeds. The downside--I think the Cobra needs 93 octane gas but I'm not sure.


Only 99+ cobras have IRS, and only 03+ cobras come with the six speed. Most cobras are well over 10K, too.
Have you thought about a nissan 240sx? lighter than mustang, rwd, plenty of aftermarket? I think that or the miata would be good if you need to get used to rwd.
 
Drifting Thunda
Yeah, Camaros should drag race and not try to do anything stylish. :P

Plus I'm pretty sure Mustang's have bigger aftermarket for road course racing than f-bodies. Not to mention LS1 SS Camaros usually run over 10k in price, and I know he doesn't want an LT1 because optispark is retarded. I've wrenched on my buddies Camaro time after time because of that stupid opti-spark crap. Not to mention the Camaro has a pencil-neck 10-bolt rear, whereas the Mustangs have a MUCH beefier 8.8" rearend. The General lets you down when you mod your car, the Ford doesn't. Get a Mustang, you don't need a 6-speed. if you do, tranny swap.

I know you were just joking, but don't underestimate the f-bodies handling potential. In and old issue of Muscle Mustangs and fast fords, they pit the '03 cobra against the '02 camaro on a road course. The cobra went 1:26.25 and the camaro went 1:26.57. That's with a stick axle and a 60 horse deficit. Not bad...

I do agree with everything else though.
 
as ppl have said before, V8 might be a bit too much for your autox ventures to start with. V6 mustang is indeed a "poser" car, as someone mentioned. my friend's '96 V6 stang has SAME 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as my '94 integra LS (non vtec, stock power).
you don't have to be hellbent on a RWD, maybe you can look into Integra GSR (170hp) - plenty of parts and very reliable car even with high miles on it.
i've driven a miata and would highly recommend it. 142hp, something like 2600lbs and very fun to drive. great for autox being a nimble RWD. i would much rather drive a "gay" miata than a "poser" V6 stang. (sorry if i offended anyone). the funniest is when girls put a GTR badge on their V6's :crazy:
240sx is also a great car for starters. 160hp and decent torque with independent RWD (i think it has LSD). lots of parts for this one and u can get the JDM silvia SR20DET engine (turbo'ed intercooled). my friend has one with that swap that he uses for drifting competitions.
as far as gas mileage goes, civic is great for that. my teg gets 28mpg of mixed city/highway with heavy throttle input. my Evo8 is 4cyl but that thing guzzles gas the moment the turbo spools. i get 20mpg of mixed driving. 25 on highway going moderately fast and 16 city.
 
Don't start talking about 240s too much or you'll get M5Power on your case (for good reason). They aren't fast unless you plow a ton of money into them. Money better spent tuning a better car. What ever happened with thinking about the Eclipse GSX? It seems like we've digressed from your original intent. I recall you saying you wanted rear seats--have you decided you want a strict race car now? Is mileage really going to matter in that case?

And I'm thinking that if that's the case, you might want to look at a 90-95 vette. Much better handling, power, etc than just about anything out there, and you ought to be able to pick one up with decent miles on it for less than $10k if you look around. They have all the bells and whistles, too (LSD, traction control w/switch, etc). Talk to Skant about racing vettes--he has a 95, and he regularly stomps everything in his class. The only reason you can pick them up when you can't get a Supra or 300ZX is that they aren't tuner cars, so the ricers don't lust after them and drive the price up.
 
I doubt he'll find a vette in good condition for under 10k, and even then insurance will be a *****.

I'm with most on the miata. Once you've stripped the thing and maybe put a roll cage in, no one will ever consider it a "faminine" car.

240's are nice once you've put an sr into them but I don't think they're idea for auto-x.
 
NOOO DON'T LISTEN TO JoizeeX!!! Front wheel drive is a whole other can of worms that you won't wanna deal with. It's harder to tune your allignment good on FWD, and you'll always have some form of understeer or another and a power defecit out of corners. If you add power, you lose traction. Sorry and I'm bias but RWD is the only way to fly. Look at the Miata.

I would settle on either a Miata or Mustang GT/Cobra, both are good fun choices and the final product would be sweet. I personally used to think Miatas were gay too but if you learn anything about them you quickly find they are how all 4 cylinder cars shoulda been.

To me, driving autocross is about 2 things: having fun and getting the most out of a given vehicle. That said, the heavier Mustang is still a good option to me because I would just wanna capitalize on how fast I can go in a Mustang. Same for the Miata, it's less powerful but I'd do the same thing. Again, the best way to have your cake and eat it to is a 302/347ci V8 swap into a Miata. :)

I was only partly joking about the f-body comments. I do in fact have respect for f-bodies and my friend's is extremely powerful (about 457 flywheel horsepower). Just that he has gone through 1 tranny, 1 motor, 3 rear-ends, 5 clutches, and 3 opti-spark distributers. I like his new motor though, a 355 (LT1 bored .030 over). It's built for nitrous and has forged internals. he's gonna be spraying a 250 shot of nitrous on it. :drool: Thanks for correcting me about the Cobras... obviously I'm not much of a Mustang guy. :dopey:
 
well at first I wanted a new car, for towning and for racing, but i think ive decided (i decide new things like everyday it seems) that i want one for ecnomy and one for racing.

Eclipse = FWD, and if im going to do nothing but race with it, id rather it not be a FWD, besides i cant find a gsx ANYWHERE, not even for sale.
 
By FWD do you mean 4WD or AWD? Because the GSX is AWD. And the girl I know here with the 430 hp Talon TSI (Eclipse GSX) still hasn't done anything with hers. It's not even listed yet. She's one of those types that keeps putting money into it even though she's gonna sell it. Just added a new body kit and is swapping the turbo to get up to 430 hp (it currently is running 380 hp).

And what do you think about a vette? Don't like them? Because I think you can find one in your price range in your area if you look for a little while.
 
FWD = FRONT Wheel Drive, not FOUR Wheel Drive (4WD), nor even ALL Wheel Drive (AWD).
 
I will stay away from FWD. When I say FF or FWD I mean front wheel drive, and I called eclipses that because most of them are FWD. I cant find any GSX.

Vettes (corvettes?) are an option but they aren't really my style. I like them and everything but I wouldnt know h ow to handle it most likely. Miata and Mustang GT/Cobra are still my top options, next to the off chance I can find a GSX or a 3000gt AWD/Turbo.
 
You can't afford the insurence on a vette or a mustang cobra. I promise you that.
 
I dunno, if we're talking about older Cobras and Vettes it might be worth contacting your insurance company for a quote. 💡

Otherwise a Miata and Stang GT are still good options. They'd prolly be my top choices too if I wasn't so into T-Birds.

If you have trouble finding an Eclipse GSX you could also try looking for an Eagle Talon TSi. More or less exactly the same thing, AWD turbo.
 
Doesn't matter he is 18 going on 19, insurence on something that fast will be high. I think the insurence guy would laugh at you.
 
retsmah
I would check with a few insurance companies, rather than assuming that it will be expensive.

All insurences will give you around the same quote since you are young, trust me I've been there...in fact I'm still there.
 
neanderthal
MSRP is what? 30K :lol:

$30100 - easily the best deal on the market. I don't even think they're being marked up that much. 30mpg and 0-60 in 7.3 - plus all the Accord trimmings and an available voice-activated navigation system. It's a completely brilliant package.
 
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