Very Bad Game Design. May Turn Into a Rant :D

  • Thread starter Thread starter MJHAYLETT
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Also: Putting F1 cars in the game - (and spending much, much time in it to make them "premium") which you can't use in B-spec mode is just STUPID
Even all those crap cars they spent so many time on to make them "premium" - Who need "Kübelwagen", "Schwimmwagen" , old VW Bus .... in a RACE game.

Its all part of the car encyclopaedia type ethos of Gran Turismo init? Yep, not obvious choices, but ones that for some reason appeal to the design team and its leader.
 
Its all part of the car encyclopaedia type ethos of Gran Turismo init? Yep, not obvious choices, but ones that for some reason appeal to the design team and its leader.

A leader who seriously needs his head checked. Much more worthy vehicles than some of those chosen.

I'm seriously surprised there isn't more premium old Japanese cars.
 
Its all part of the car encyclopaedia type ethos of Gran Turismo init? Yep, not obvious choices, but ones that for some reason appeal to the design team and its leader.

Putting such cars in a Race game can be done when everything else is near to perfection.

In GT5 they added so much "Addon Stuff" to the game that they nearly forgot about the main part - and that should be A-Spec Mode. And A-Spec Mode was 100 times better in every previous GT game. Instead of improving it, they took things out. There is only ONE !! interesting event in GT5s A-Spec which is the "Dreamcar championship". They could have made soooo much out of it - but they did't because they found it more urgent to design "Kübelwagen" etc. and add stupid special events - even the rally mode was way better in previous GTs...
There are even race tracks - like the special stage rout 7 that never appears in A-spac races. They could have done 1000times more events with different restrictions, changing conditions (like in the dreamcar event) etc. Why did't they spend time on things like this?
 
Putting such cars in a Race game can be done when everything else is near to perfection.

Yep, I agree. In most cases though I think that one feature may not have come directly at the expense of another - the guys doing the 3D models are not the ones developing the UI for example.

The problem was clearly time, there simply wasn't enough of it to do everything. It could have been that the modellers started on a various cars, such as some the more bizarre ones mentioned, it didn't become clear until much later in the project that they weren't going to get finished with everything, so we've ended up with ones they finished a while ago.
 
It's not even been 2 weeks and a lot of you are moaning already that the game is too 'hard'. Diddums. If you want to complete a campaign mode for a game in under 12 hours go play COD.

Time consuming does not equal hard.

Running the same race with an overpowed car just to level up and unlock new races/events is no challenge and very boring.


That is why World of Warcraft is so popular compared to Everquest........ one has a really long grind while the other doesn't take a guess which is which.
 
Running the same race with an overpowed car just to level up and unlock new races/events is no challenge and very boring.

It's your choice to use an overpowered car which makes it boring and unchallenging. I on the other hand always use cars which are similar if not less powerful than the AI (except in B-spec). I don't mind doing the same races over again to get money, it gives me a reason to try out all the cars.
 
Also: Putting F1 cars in the game - (and spending much, much time in it to make them "premium") which you can't use in B-spec mode is just STUPID
Even all those crap cars they spent so many time on to make them "premium" - Who need "Kübelwagen", "Schwimmwagen" , old VW Bus .... in a RACE game.

Only PD can come up with bullcrap like this and gets away with it.
 
In the many posts in this thread a lot of design flaws were named, with the experience grinding being the one that is hated most. I'm level 20 in A-Spec and level 13 in B-Spec, so I didn't have to grind so far. But I think the heaviest design flaw is not the grinding above level 20, but what happens before.

Let's take a look at the B-Spec mode:
In the in-game manual I read something about pit-strategies and how they are influenced by weather changes, tire wear, fatigue of the drivers and so on. "That sounds interesting" I thought and started the B-Spec mode. In the first race I only had one driver, sunny weather, no fuel consumption, no tire wear. Just a button to change the driver's willingness to take a risk. For the first races, that's ok. Then I went on to the next event. And the next. And the next. Now I'm half way through the events and reached level 13. But I still only have this one button to mess with and I'm still doing the same I did in the first races. If the car is overpowered enough, I just do nothing. If it's not, I'm hitting the x-button in a 20 seconds interval to tell the AI-driver to keep his speed. And there is no sign that there will be a change any time soon. There is absolutely no ramping up of difficulty and rewards.

I expected some ramp up like this:
1.) In the first races, you only have to control one driver's speed.
2.) In the later Tier-1-Events (the "Beginner" events or however they are called in the English version) fixed weather changes occur. I mean something like: In a certain race you always start with dry weather and after 2 minutes light rain starts. So that you have to do a pit stop and change tires.
3.) In the Tier-2-Events the races get longer and you have to keep an eye on the fuel consumption and tire wear. To prevent the races from being TOO long, you start with an only partly filled fuel tank. You have sunny weather in the first races.
4.) In the later Tier-2-Events fixed weather changes occur again.
5.) In the Tier-3-Events the races get longer again and you have to change drivers. So now you have to deal with 4 influences on your pit strategy: Weather, driver fatigue, fuel, tire wear. Restrictions should prevent you from using massively overpowered cars from now on.
6.) In the Tier-4-Events the weather changes are randomized. You get messages like "light rain expected in 3 minutes" so that you have a chance to change your strategy.
7.) In the Tier-5-Events you can have 2 drivers (or 2 teams of drivers in longer races) in the same race. So you have to jump between 2 cars to give orders to both. Controlling 2 drivers and dealing with the randomized weather changes makes you really busy in those races. But you will receive the credits and XP for both of the teams. When you reach Tier 5, the possibility to have 2 drivers/teams in a race is unlocked for all other events (Tier 1 to 4) as well. So replaying them is more interesting and rewarding from this moment on.

This is just meant as an example how the ramp up could look like. To really build a perfect flow through the career is difficult, and the small differences in how you "build your ramp" is what seperates average game design from superb game design. But there should at least EXIST a ramp. I'm level 13 now and so far I don't drive up a ramp, but walk slowly on an endless plain. Only what I have read in the manual gives me reason to hope that beyond the horizon there really is a ramp. And that I can reach it after hours and hours of boring races.


And the A-Spec mode? Well, I'm level 20 now and reached Tier 5. So far I haven't seen a single raindrop. I never entered the pit to change tires or get some new fuel. I only drive races with disabled tire wear and fuel consumption. And the sun always shines. It's like GT5P with new cars and tracks.


The special events are ok, but the A- and B-Spec modes are completely messed up. What those self-proclaimed "game designers" did, shows that they have not even learned the basics of game design. It is good that there are so many car enthusiasts at PD. But they really should search for some "real" game designers, who can build a game around the brilliant core of Gran Turismo.
 
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