Veyron?? SSC Aero?? Pah! Meet the NEW king of speed!!

[Famine]

Am I wrong to be sceptical about that claim? Around these kind of speeds it takes serious amounts of brute power to climb just a few mph. Forget about weight, you're nothing without power at these speeds. 900 hp to reach 260 mph sounds kinda optimistic to me.

The Veyron has quite a high CdA, so it needs pretty much every one of the 1000hp to reach 253mph. The Barabus is a bit smaller to the air and has a lower Cd - the numbers I plumbed through assumed 0.28 and a frontal area of about 22 square feet. It's also a little bit lighter which doesn't make a huge difference, but it all adds up.

Aero is key - you could hit 200mph in a Honda Insight with only 160hp, if geared to it, because it's relatively slippery. A reduction in Cd of 0.01 is better at that speed than an increase of 30hp...


As for how far it'd take to reach 300mph on road... Using the Veyron as a basis and throwing a couple of assumptions in to the mix, I've come up with about 8.5km, or 5.3 miles.

Edit: Assuming 260mph required every drop of 900hp, and that there's no downforce (which I doubt), the theoretical top speed is 324mph. Remember though that a car weighing 995kg at rest may not weigh that at 200mph+

 

[iced16]

i can make car too... it can go 1000km/h but again, i cant prove it...
everybody can do this... let them show us the vid of it going more 400km/h+ and i will shut up...

 

[Joey D]

I wish this top speed war thing would end. It's as pointless as the Ring time war. Seriously give me a F430 or a Gallardo or something equally as good, it'll be immensely more usable and still pretty fast.

 

[mafia_boy]

i can make car too... it can go 1000km/h but again, i cant prove it...
everybody can do this... let them show us the vid of it going more 400km/h+ and i will shut up...

The second I see it, it will be posted on here in the first post.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

The day I see a 400hp Evo beat a 1750hp supercar in a straight line dash to 400km/h is the day that I eat my PC, piece by piece!

Yeah cause every road in the world is a straight line.

 

[Joey D]

Yeah cause every road in the world is a straight line.

He lives in Australia, it's nothing but flat empty land full of things that can kill you.

 

[mafia_boy]

Yeah cause every road in the world is a straight line.

And like the Evo will hit 400km/h anyway, 400hp or 1400hp.

*added bit* @ Joey, you are so right, we have the 90 mile straight..........guess what holdenhsvgtsr, it's COMPLETELY STRAIGHT!!

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Which just proves that Aussies have one of the most boring roads.. in the world.

 

[homeforsummer]

*added bit* @ Joey, you are so right, we have the 90 mile straight..........guess what holdenhsvgtsr, it's COMPLETELY STRAIGHT!!

Great, so there's one road in the entire world on which you could extract the performance. Things like this strike me as nothing more than a big automotive willy-waving contest.

As has been mentioned, VAG have managed to make a 250bhp car completely useable, and not only that - produce them in decent numbers.

Until another company does similar, which I can't see happening for a very long time, if ever, then none of these one-shot hypercars built in someone's shed willl really impress me.

 

[NotThePrez]

The reason why most prefer the veyron even though it isn't the fastest is that when you're NOT trying to go fast, it's a reliable and comfortable everyday luxury car.

But on a more important note:

The motor is built by Nelson Racing Engines......they've got a Chevy Nova that is street driven, like this example.

Listen to the awesome sound that car makes!

 

[mafia_boy]

Which just proves that Aussies have one of the most boring roads.. in the world.

Well you don't want a road that crosses a desert to be all wandering in every direction Leo. You want to cross it in as quick a time as possible and the quickest way is STRAIGHT.

Great, so there's one road in the entire world on which you could extract the performance. Things like this strike me as nothing more than a big automotive willy-waving contest.

No, it's one road in AUSTRALIA. The SSC as mentioned before was done on a closed road in AMERICA!

As has been mentioned, VAG have managed to make a 250bhp car completely useable, and not only that - produce them in decent numbers.

Ummm, you do realise 250hp isn't that much, and most manufacturers would produce cars that produce these cars amount in bucketloads! Even our bog stock Falcon's and Commodore's produce 280hp and they are made in the tens of thousands. What's your point there?

Until another company does similar, which I can't see happening for a very long time, if ever, then none of these one-shot hypercars built in someone's shed willl really impress me.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I reckon if and when this car hits close to 300mph then you will change your stance....it's not like the SSC that struggled to get faster than the Veyron with 200hp more, this car did it with 100hp LESS than a Veyron and was already 7mph faster.

 

[Roo]

Ummm, you do realise 250hp isn't that much, and most manufacturers would produce cars that produce these cars amount in bucketloads! Even our bog stock Falcon's and Commodore's produce 280hp and they are made in the tens of thousands. What's your point there?

He ment 250mph... it's obvious if you think about it.

 

[mafia_boy]

Roo, you do realise I've just woken up to look at things happening on here and don't have the brain capacity to check whether he's meant 250MPH or not.....that only happens after a caffeine jump start.

 

[Tornado]

I wish this top speed war thing would end. It's as pointless as the Ring time war.

As pointless? At least with Ring times you can confirm that a car can probably handle.

Forget about weight, you're nothing without power at these speeds. 900 hp to reach 260 mph sounds kinda optimistic to me.

Dauer did 251 with only 730HP back in 1993, in addition to the long technical explanation Famine brought up.

 

[homeforsummer]

No, it's one road in AUSTRALIA. The SSC as mentioned before was done on a closed road in AMERICA!

Pinch of salt fail.

Ummm, you do realise 250hp isn't that much, and most manufacturers would produce cars that produce these cars amount in bucketloads! Even our bog stock Falcon's and Commodore's produce 280hp and they are made in the tens of thousands. What's your point there?

Oh gimme a break, We're all talking about the Veyron you didn't perhaps come to the conclusion that I accidentally typed BHP instead of MPH? Take a moment to read through things a little so it doesn't look like you're just clutching at straws in people's typos...

Edit: Tree'd by Roo. At least someone was awake...

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I reckon if and when this car hits close to 300mph then you will change your stance....it's not like the SSC that struggled to get faster than the Veyron with 200hp more, this car did it with 100hp LESS than a Veyron and was already 7mph faster.

The car weighs significantly LESS than the Veyron and has a much smaller frontal area. And it's still a backyard special. And it still isn't a volume production car. And 7mph? Really? Like I said, when you're talking about handfuls of MPH and you've had to build a "special" to get there, it's all about the willy-waving and doesn't strike me as a big engineering achievement.

And really, apart from number freaks and 8 year olds, who really cares if it hits 300mph? Where on Earth, literally, can you use that performance in a road car? It's completely academic. At least the Veyron is still a proper road car at the end of the day and you can enjoy other aspects of it when the opportunity to open the taps isn't there.

 

[McLaren]

Actually, a lot of them DO see quite regular use. Check the site out and see for yourself. 👍

What's regular use? Drive on the streets at 20-40Mph every so often or just every other Sunday at the track?

I can live without comfort, too many of you are just soft.

It's easy to say such things without driving it.

I know that, but they have run the numbers with their current rubber without having do a massive blowout on them

They also ran the tires on the Salt Flats which if Top Gear was correct about anything, tire PSI is changed much from what the PSI will be for road use.

Going 260Mph on the tires one time & not having a blow out doesn't mean the tires are fine, either. Let's see if they can do it at a consistent rate like the Veyron tires can for 15 minutes.

Yes I do, very much so. That's why I threw the comment of TKR going to them.

Which could easily then just push the Keating back several months.

Maybe for you guys over there, try getting a road closed in Australia, it's a case of mission impossible.

It can't be that hard for a continent with such open roads & locations.

No, I know the whole story behind the Veyron as most of us do, but it doesn't change the fact that it needs to be sans an engine cover, and need 10 radiators. The real achievement about the Veyron is that they passed the emissions tests, even with it's 1001hp.

So what? I could just as easily discredit the Keating for needing a parachute to slow it down or that it has to be stripped down & ran at the Salt Flats to do 260Mph.

Again it's back to the "unreliable" thing. NRE build VERY reliable motors. Try four seasons without a rebuild with their monster LSX 454 TT motor. Check the specs and it is a bit pricey, US$52k for the engine alone...
PDF of brochure!!

I never mentioned reliability. I was pointing out the fact that the Keating is useless for anything but speed.

If I wanted to use it for drag racing, it'd be beat by a purpose-built drag car & I'd rather have that. If I wanted to use it for track driving, I'd buy a track car instead. If I want something I can use at the Texas Mile, which is the only place in the US where you could make the most of the Keating, I would...just buy a Viper/Supra & TT them instead. At least they could be driven home in some comfort than the Keating.

And before you say the Keating is faster, tell me this. How fast is the Keating in just 1 mile? Can it hit it's 260mph in that length?

The day I see a 400hp Evo beat a 1750hp supercar in a straight line dash to 400km/h is the day that I eat my PC, piece by piece!

It shouldn't be too hard seeing as the Keating probably wheel spins through 3rd like the SSC.

For a couple of RICH men and their toy, I wouldn't put it past them. Businesses only understand one concept....MONEY, and if enough is put under their noses and asked to develop said tyre, I'm pretty sure they would do so.

Bugatti spent over $1 million on tire development. I highly doubt Keating has those resources to do so. They would lose enormous amounts of money.

It's not that it's easy to drive, 1000hp isn't easy to drive on any car, period.

And that's where the Veyron shines because it is easy to drive. It doesn't put all its power down at once, in fact the gauge in the dash will tell you how much power it's putting down.

Simple fact is they don't have the same PTW ratio. And to call it a small shed toy is quite an insult, because Keating is an engineer, just like Mr.Dennis and the McLaren boys are, so he wouldn't be just slapping steel or carbon fibre together and going "Yep, she's a real fast car alright!", it's nothing like that.

There's a difference between Gordon Murray & Mr. Keating. Mr. Keating use his engineering skills just to make the car fast.

Murray used his skills to make sure the McLaren was quick, but also agile & capable of daily street use.

 

[Tornado]

As I understand it, the F1 was sort of accidentally that fast.


Anyways, how does overengineering something (10 radiators, for example) cease to make it an engineering feat?

 

[Joey D]

As pointless? At least with Ring times you can confirm that a car can probably handle.

It can handle at one track, we all know that every track is different and just because one car works well at one track, it doesn't mean it will work well at another. It's all really pointless. Especially since a vast majority of buyer will never use their car in that manner.

 

[Tornado]

Ergo, "probably."

 

[mafia_boy]

Pinch of salt fail.

No pinch of salt fail, you said it, I called you out on it.

Oh gimme a break, We're all talking about the Veyron you didn't perhaps come to the conclusion that I accidentally typed BHP instead of MPH? Take a moment to read through things a little so it doesn't look like you're just clutching at straws in people's typos...

Edit: Tree'd by Roo. At least someone was awake...

Well it was 8am when I answered so yes, I only just woke up. Like you have 100% brain function when you first wake up.

The car weighs significantly LESS than the Veyron and has a much smaller frontal area. And it's still a backyard special. And it still isn't a volume production car. And 7mph? Really? Like I said, when you're talking about handfuls of MPH and you've had to build a "special" to get there, it's all about the willy-waving and doesn't strike me as a big engineering achievement.

What, because it isn't a "volume" car makes it bad?? PA-LEASE!! Tell that to the guys at Noble while you're at it, all their cars are basically "specials" but their M600 stomps everything bar the Veyron.

And really, apart from number freaks and 8 year olds, who really cares if it hits 300mph? Where on Earth, literally, can you use that performance in a road car? It's completely academic. At least the Veyron is still a proper road car at the end of the day and you can enjoy other aspects of it when the opportunity to open the taps isn't there.

I care if it hits 300mph, and I'm just a regular car nut! Where on Earth can you use that performance you ask.....something called an autobahn, it's a little closer to you than me. The TKR and the Veyron are both proper road cars, just you can enjoy different things in each car....it's not like there is a set standard of what makes a car a car.

What's regular use? Drive on the streets at 20-40Mph every so often or just every other Sunday at the track?

Cue video #2 of same car that pulled 6's.


That's the same car cruising down the street in Las Vegas, minutes after pulling it's 6.93@211mph pass and the owner going to pick his wife up in the car....you can hear he has passengers in the car too in the video. Here's some info about it:

Bangshift.com brings you Larry Larson's infamous cruise down Las Vegas Blvd following his historic 6.93/211 pass at the PSCA Street Car Super Nationals in Las Vegas on November 21, 2009. To get ready to drive the car on the street, all we did was add air to the tires, pack the chutes, fill it with pump gas, take off the stickers on the windows, and hit the key. This Lenco equpped beast really is a street car. The pass on the video is the 6.96 run from early on Saturday. The 6.93 is also available to view at http://bangshift.com/blog/Video-In-...nd-Quarter-Mile-in-a-Street-Driven-Nova.html ... as is a full feature on the car. Enjoy.

It's easy to say such things without driving it.

I can say such things because I've owned cars that were PURPOSE built, such as the show & drag Holden Gemini's that my cousin & I owned way back when I was 16. The show car had zero suspension to get it as low as possible and made the ride almost impossible to live with, and the drag car had zero interior, hard as bucket seats and would hurt my butt after a two hour drive, but I love them as much now as I did back then and would love to do two more like them! They were both street registered and daily driven too!

I've also been in Lotus V8TT's and the such and know both ends of the spectrum....the Lotus made me feel more uncomfortable than either Gemini EVER did and that was in 1 night due to it's seating position not taking advantage of it's plushyness!!

They also ran the tires on the Salt Flats which if Top Gear was correct about anything, tire PSI is changed much from what the PSI will be for road use.

Yeah, they go even higher than what the recommended psi ratings are, "to the point of explosion" was the quote that Clarkson used.

Going 260Mph on the tires one time & not having a blow out doesn't mean the tires are fine, either. Let's see if they can do it at a consistent rate like the Veyron tires can for 15 minutes.

That we will have to wait and see.

Which could easily then just push the Keating back several months.

And they could already have a tyre supplier....we don't know these things and I'm not going to speculate.

It can't be that hard for a continent with such open roads & locations.

Ahhh, yes it can!! The state governments are really draconian on road rules and use for things like this and are getting worse each year. Even our only area with an unlimited speed limit (the Northern Territory) recently implemented 130km/h limits which eliminated top speed runs here forever!

So what? I could just as easily discredit the Keating for needing a parachute to slow it down or that it has to be stripped down & ran at the Salt Flats to do 260Mph.

You try and stop a car at 260mph ANYWHERE, be it asphalt or salt and see how you do without a parachute. They're practicing safety, incase something goes wrong. That's why ALL cars that travel over 140mph within a 1/4 mile over here are forced to have chutes fitted....for safety reasons!! And from a few TexasMile vids I've seen, so have 99% of the cars there.

I never mentioned reliability. I was pointing out the fact that the Keating is useless for anything but speed.

You didn't "mention" it, but you certainly implied it with your quote:

If I want that, I'll just go out & buy a track-oriented car whether it be road or drag racing. At least that way, I can use it more than a couple times knowing it was built to handle such abuse.

And how do we know that it WILL be useless for anything but speed?? We haven't seen it on a track yet!

If I wanted to use it for drag racing, it'd be beat by a purpose-built drag car & I'd rather have that. If I wanted to use it for track driving, I'd buy a track car instead. If I want something I can use at the Texas Mile, which is the only place in the US where you could make the most of the Keating, I would...just buy a Viper/Supra & TT them instead. At least they could be driven home in some comfort than the Keating.

Those cars on the Texas Mile are trailered there, not driven, and guess what...they're all stuffed full of PARACHUTES!!

And before you say the Keating is faster, tell me this. How fast is the Keating in just 1 mile? Can it hit it's 260mph in that length?

They've already mentioned they hit 250mph in 3 miles....watch the video again.

It shouldn't be too hard seeing as the Keating probably wheel spins through 3rd like the SSC.

Another person who failed at this comment. Like I said before, AS IF a 400hp Evo will EVER EVER EVER reach 400km/h, the day that happens is the day I eat my PC piece by piece. Even with 1400hp it won't due to it's gearing.

Bugatti spent over $1 million on tire development. I highly doubt Keating has those resources to do so. They would lose enormous amounts of money.

So you know how rich Mr.Keating is do you?? Wow, didn't know you were his financial manager & controller.

And that's where the Veyron shines because it is easy to drive. It doesn't put all its power down at once, in fact the gauge in the dash will tell you how much power it's putting down.

That's to stop the idiotic richie rich's from planting it and going "oh 🤬" and not realising they have just unleashed 1001hp. And it's not really a hard thing to do...the harder your foot goes on the pedal, the more power that is delivered and is shown on the gauge. It's a gimmick, that's it.

There's a difference between Gordon Murray & Mr. Keating. Mr. Keating use his engineering skills just to make the car fast.

Murray used his skills to make sure the McLaren was quick, but also agile & capable of daily street use.

And who says this WON'T be capable of daily street use?

 

[Boffin]

The day I see a 400hp Evo beat a 1750hp supercar in a straight line dash to 400km/h is the day that I eat my PC, piece by piece!

Start marinading. Where, on the roads, are you going to test such a claim? that long stretch in NT? Pfffft. I'd give up 1300hp for more usuablilty and everyday performance if it only meant I got to the end slower.
And the point is to be the most powerful think on the road? What abou that Vauxhall Victor in the UK with 2000hp? I know there's an Impala in the US with even more - and they're both road legal.

For a couple of RICH men and their toy, I wouldn't put it past them. Businesses only understand one concept....MONEY, and if enough is put under their noses and asked to develop said tyre, I'm pretty sure they would do so.

Lets put it in perspective, shall we? Five wealthy men (I suspect only 2 or 3 of that actually) vs VAG. Hmmmmm - which has a higher back balance and more credability. They say they used to lose 5mil quid on every Veyron sold (more now because of the price drop) - I think VAG would be succesful in getting custom tires from a world class company rather than 5 men in a shed. Those who call their car "sucker" don't really impress big name brands.

Actually it's slipperier on salt than asphalt.

Point: Missed. I don't give a rat's ass if the coefficient of friction is nil. What's the point of running records on salt flats if that not where the car will be used? Its like building a speedboat, dropping it out of a plane proving that it crack 300mph, but actually can only reach 30 knotts in the water? Point? None.

Sure, its a great car in terms of engineering - the LS7 with only 10psi would go on for a bit I'm sure, but why don't they just not make it a road legal car. Whats the point of beating the Veyron? Or the SSC? They've lost already, because look how refined the Veyron is. Look at the quality, the comfort, the weight. They got that loungeroom of a car to get to 250mph - in comfort. Sure they said the TKR will get there comfortably - but, no. That alcantara bucket seat will get uncomfortable - the straight cut gears will whine and become annoying - air con? Not if you want to hit 250. The Veyron misses all this and still manages to crack 250 - and it has won because of it. If they wanted to crack 500mph I'm sure they could do it - but style and comfort count, so they stuck with 250 and kept creature comforts. The reliablily of that TKR, and the interior build quality - much like the SSC (I suspect) would be on par with TVR, or horrible.

It means a bit when you have cars like the McLaren F1 being spoken in similar breaths by other people.

Not many people complain that the Veyron has bonnet, because the engine cover is a work of art.

It is nice, but I prefer other engines, such as the Speed 12's donk, or the Mac F1's donk.

Your entitled to that.

It's not that it's easy to drive, 1000hp isn't easy to drive on any car, period.

WRONG!!!!!! Look at all the reviews of the Veyron. EVERYONE is suprised at how usable the Veyron is. Most of them say its no harder to drive than a Golf.
This is why the Veyron is such a masterpiece.

When did hp become torque?? You can have 1000hp rotors, but they will still have next to no torque. That point is invalid. However, the effort they put in to make it easier to drive than your other 1000hp cars (which are more than likely aftermarket modified cars) is something you can admire.

Because I always thought that theres a direct relationship - following this formula. But I don't want to go into a discussion because its off topic.

horsepower = torque * rpm / 5252

Watever - your going to tell me if you stamp on the throttle of 1750 with any amount of lateral G in any gear under 5th on road tires and it'll hold? Pfffft.

Simple fact is they don't have the same PTW ratio. And to call it a small shed toy is quite an insult, because Keating is an engineer, just like Mr.Dennis and the McLaren boys are, so he wouldn't be just slapping steel or carbon fibre together and going "Yep, she's a real fast car alright!", it's nothing like that.

Where's Keatings F1 cars? Not all engineers are the same, you know. And it is. What it can do is amazing, and totally worth a GTP thread and all this, its just that I bet it'll forever be a bit rough round the edges. Sure - the things awsome, but a bit useless, no?

 

[McLaren]

Cue video #2 of same car that pulled 6's.


That's the same car cruising down the street in Las Vegas, minutes after pulling it's 6.93@211mph pass and the owner going to pick his wife up in the car....you can hear he has passengers in the car too in the video. Here's some info about it:

One car does not equate for everyone else with those engines. I stand by my bet.

I can say such things because I've owned cars that were PURPOSE built, such as the show & drag Holden Gemini's that my cousin & I owned way back when I was 16. The show car had zero suspension to get it as low as possible and made the ride almost impossible to live with, and the drag car had zero interior, hard as bucket seats and would hurt my butt after a two hour drive, but I love them as much now as I did back then and would love to do two more like them! They were both street registered and daily driven too!

I've also been in Lotus V8TT's and the such and know both ends of the spectrum....the Lotus made me feel more uncomfortable than either Gemini EVER did and that was in 1 night due to it's seating position not taking advantage of it's plushyness!!

Thanks for confirming that cars with such features will be utterly useless as street cars.

That we will have to wait and see.

I'm not betting on it.

And they could already have a tyre supplier....we don't know these things and I'm not going to speculate.

Or they're more than likely just running on the usual performance tire & not something specifically made for them.

You try and stop a car at 260mph ANYWHERE, be it asphalt or salt and see how you do without a parachute.

The Veyron can do it in 10 seconds without a parachute.

They're practicing safety, incase something goes wrong. That's why ALL cars that travel over 140mph within a 1/4 mile over here are forced to have chutes fitted....for safety reasons!! And from a few TexasMile vids I've seen, so have 99% of the cars there.

That's a load of crock seeing as the Veyron can trap 140mph in the quarter mile, again without needing a parachute to stop it. The SSC has done so as well.

And no, 99% of the cars in the Texas Mile do not use a parachute.

And how do we know that it WILL be useless for anything but speed?? We haven't seen it on a track yet!

It will be useless. 1,700Hp trying to be put down through a turn is just disaster.

Those cars on the Texas Mile are trailered there, not driven, and guess what...they're all stuffed full of PARACHUTES!!

Wrong. Some are, most aren't. And most of them (nearly all the ones from Dallas) are also daily drivers.

They've already mentioned they hit 250mph in 3 miles....watch the video again.

How fast can it go in a mile? I don't care what it can do in 3 miles. If it can't do 220Mph in 1 mile, then it's not even a car worth owning for the Texas Mile.

So you know how rich Mr.Keating is do you?? Wow, didn't know you were his financial manager & controller.

And you do?

Judging by the materials used to build the Keating, it really doesn't take much for me to see that Mr. Keating isn't really anymore wealthy than some of the guys who run personalized cars at the Salt Flats or the men who own 1 or 2 drag-built muscle cars. With that, I'm not counting on Mr. Keating to have the money that will allow him to have a tire built for his car only & recoup the costs at all.

That's to stop the idiotic richie rich's from planting it and going "oh 🤬" and not realising they have just unleashed 1001hp. And it's not really a hard thing to do...the harder your foot goes on the pedal, the more power that is delivered and is shown on the gauge. It's a gimmick, that's it.

And it works.

And who says this WON'T be capable of daily street use?

You, for one thing. You just said about you've been in purpose built cars with nearly impossible-to-live-with ride, & seats that hurt your butt.

Those kind of qualities will not make the Keating capable of street use with 99% of consumers. People will do 10 miles & realize the suspension & racing seats will be killing them. A McLaren, Veyron, & even the SSC, are much more livable.

 

[mafia_boy]

Start marinading. Where, on the roads, are you going to test such a claim? that long stretch in NT? Pfffft. I'd give up 1300hp for more usuablilty and everyday performance if it only meant I got to the end slower.

The 90 mile straight is in WA & SA. Learn our geography dude, especially since you are Aussie yourself!! And it wouldn't need that....like has been ALREADY REPORTED, it takes 3 miles, that's 4.83 kilometers. There's PLENTY of stretches (such as the M4, M2, M5 or M7) that are near that length.

And the point is to be the most powerful think on the road? What abou that Vauxhall Victor in the UK with 2000hp? I know there's an Impala in the US with even more - and they're both road legal.

The point isn't to be the most powerful thing on the road, it's to be the FASTEST, period.

Lets put it in perspective, shall we? Five wealthy men (I suspect only 2 or 3 of that actually) vs VAG. Hmmmmm - which has a higher back balance and more credability. They say they used to lose 5mil quid on every Veyron sold (more now because of the price drop) - I think VAG would be succesful in getting custom tires from a world class company rather than 5 men in a shed. Those who call their car "sucker" don't really impress big name brands.

But who's to say they BOTH won't be successful in doing so? And haven't you heard of people calling their car a name??

Point: Missed. I don't give a rat's ass if the coefficient of friction is nil. What's the point of running records on salt flats if that not where the car will be used? Its like building a speedboat, dropping it out of a plane proving that it crack 300mph, but actually can only reach 30 knotts in the water? Point? None.

Now that last phrase was silly. But to answer the question, it's because it's easier to get access to a salt flat, it's not as easy to get them to close a road.

Sure, its a great car in terms of engineering - the LS7 with only 10psi would go on for a bit I'm sure, but why don't they just not make it a road legal car.

THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE DOING, MAKING IT ROAD LEGAL!! God damn, are you guys just being pig headed for the 🤬 sake of being pig headed??

Whats the point of beating the Veyron? Or the SSC? They've lost already, because look how refined the Veyron is. Look at the quality, the comfort, the weight. They got that loungeroom of a car to get to 250mph - in comfort. Sure they said the TKR will get there comfortably - but, no. That alcantara bucket seat will get uncomfortable - the straight cut gears will whine and become annoying - air con? Not if you want to hit 250. The Veyron misses all this and still manages to crack 250 - and it has won because of it. If they wanted to crack 500mph I'm sure they could do it - but style and comfort count, so they stuck with 250 and kept creature comforts. The reliablily of that TKR, and the interior build quality - much like the SSC (I suspect) would be on par with TVR, or horrible.

Because Bugatti are...wait for it....a LUXURY BRAND!! They pander to the richie rich's who like a soft ride. Once again, you guys are being soft, it's like you've never ridden in a car with a harder suspension.

Not many people complain that the Veyron has bonnet, because the engine cover is a work of art.

Any Ferrari motor is a work of art, but they still managed to put a lexan cover over the motor! Couldn't Bugatti do something similar?? No, because they already were losing $5 million per car....that would add more red ink to the bottom line.

WRONG!!!!!! Look at all the reviews of the Veyron. EVERYONE is suprised at how usable the Veyron is. Most of them say its no harder to drive than a Golf.
This is why the Veyron is such a masterpiece.

Everyone except the people who are writing them off.

Because I always thought that theres a direct relationship - following this formula. But I don't want to go into a discussion because its off topic.

horsepower = torque * rpm / 5252

Watever - your going to tell me if you stamp on the throttle of 1750 with any amount of lateral G in any gear under 5th on road tires and it'll hold? Pfffft.

Yes, if you know how high or low it's revving it might help.

Where's Keatings F1 cars? Not all engineers are the same, you know. And it is. What it can do is amazing, and totally worth a GTP thread and all this, its just that I bet it'll forever be a bit rough round the edges. Sure - the things awsome, but a bit useless, no?

It's as useless as the F1, or the Enzo, or the Speed 12, or any other hypercar when people keep putting the logic of "where can you cruise in this car" into it. ANY car can be made to potter around in a pedestrian manner, it's what happens when you mash the gas that makes the difference between them all.

One car does not equate for everyone else with those engines. I stand by my bet.

That's just the easiest car I could find, I could go searching for 1/2hr and find others but that was straight off the top of my head.

Thanks for confirming that cars with such features will be utterly useless as street cars.

But the thing is that they WERE BOTH DAILY DRIVEN STREET CARS!! Just because I had a complaint about them doesn't stop my love for them and nor did it stop them from being cruised around daily. I made the sacrifices, I lived with them. Other people are like minded in that aspect.

I'm not betting on it.

That's fine, we'll agree to disagree on that.

Or they're more than likely just running on the usual performance tire & not something specifically made for them.

That could be true too, but that makes that particular tyre manufacturer pretty good looking if their tyres can handle the 260mph.

The Veyron can do it in 10 seconds without a parachute.

From 253 it can, not from 260.
Yes that bit is pissing in the wind!

That's a load of crock seeing as the Veyron can trap 140mph in the quarter mile, again without needing a parachute to stop it. The SSC has done so as well.

You missed two VERY IMPORTANT words there.......OVER HERE!! It's our rules for any car that attends a 1/4 mile meet and breaks that mark. So, when the Veyron does it, the marshalls will tell Mr.Rich to 🤬 off from the track and not to come back until he has a parachute on the car.

And no, 99% of the cars in the Texas Mile do not use a parachute.

With the cars that were hitting 240mph, yes they did!!

It will be useless. 1,700Hp trying to be put down through a turn is just disaster.

Just like it is for the Veyron, which is a point and shoot car!

Wrong. Some are, most aren't. And most of them (nearly all the ones from Dallas) are also daily drivers.

For the 240mph beasts we are talking about, yes they are trailered.

How fast can it go in a mile? I don't care what it can do in 3 miles. If it can't do 220Mph in 1 mile, then it's not even a car worth owning for the Texas Mile.

Do I have those figures?? NO! I gave you guys the same info I have, so stop asking me questions that weren't even answered in the video.

And you do?

Judging by the materials used to build the Keating, it really doesn't take much for me to see that Mr. Keating isn't really anymore wealthy than some of the guys who run personalized cars at the Salt Flats or the men who own 1 or 2 drag-built muscle cars. With that, I'm not counting on Mr. Keating to have the money that will allow him to have a tire built for his car only & recoup the costs at all.

Another wait and see moment. But I didn't say he probably doesn't have the resources, you did, so you got called for it. And if a guy has a goal in his mind, he wouldn't be thinking of a budget. It's like VAG's president when he ordered production of the Veyron, he didn't care how much it cost to build, he wanted it done, period!!

And it works.

Point taken, but it's still a gimmick at best.

You, for one thing.

I NEVER said that it wouldn't be capable of daily street use.

You just said about you've been in purpose built cars with nearly impossible-to-live-with ride, & seats that hurt your butt.

But I never said it WAS impossible, I said nearly. And as I previously stated I made the sacrifices and was prepared to live with them, and there ARE other people who think the way I think. And as I repeat, yet again, my cars were daily driven, even with the rough suspension and rough seats, etc.!!

Those kind of qualities will not make the Keating capable of street use with 99% of consumers. People will do 10 miles & realize the suspension & racing seats will be killing them. A McLaren, Veyron, & even the SSC, are much more livable.

Depends on the people who buy it....if it's Mr.Rich, then yes, the Veyron might be the better choice. For some petrol heads, it's a case of taking the best there is in outright speed!


Now, I'm going to stop bantering and debating with you guys, and I'm just going to wait for the next video to pop up, then put it on here then we can continue this later.

But I will say, I love debating with you guys.

 

[niky]

I missed the meat of this thread, but here's my 0.02 shekels:

- Kit car or not, the only thing required for a car to count as production, at all is for it to be sold to the public. There's the small matter of a car meeting government road-worthiness regulations, but then, there are so many different governments and so many different regulations (the Porsche 959 still isn't road legal in the US) that it's arguable what constitutes road-legal.

- Daily usability? I'd wait and see. Be nice if they implement a multi-stage electronic boost control and variable engine mapping so that it only produces slightly more power than the tires can use at any road speed. Would make the engine last longer, too... though, as I understand it, these engines don't tend to blow up...

- Did someone actually mention Veyron and handling in the same sentence? Yes, the Veyron is amazingly agile for a 1000 hp supercar that weighs two tons... but that's in the same vein as a BMW X6M being amazingly agile for a truck that weighs nearly two and a half tons. Meaning, yeah, it's great, but not "oh-my-gosh-the-GTR-shouldn't-be-so-fast" great.

- Factor of Mact: Why does anyone need a 1000 hp road car that drinks gas faster than the Titanic? There's no place in the world you can use all that power. You'd be better of with a Nissan GT-R... or... even better... a Lotus Exige... a car that gets to the speed limit faster than anyone will ever need to and that feels like it's going fast at the speed limit... unlike most cars that only feel fast when going twice that.

- Interesting achievement, but more pointless than 'Ring times. All it takes to "break" that record is to produce a turbine-powered car that can go 400 mph on the salt and has the pre-requisite number of turn signals. There's a guy who added a small turbine to his New Beetle. Increased the top speed immensely. And yet the car still got decent mileage on the highway (he didn't remove the gasoline engine).

Hmmm... apparently he still has the car. Didn't know he had a website (got his story off an old magazine

http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/

There's a 1,350 hp (oh... +100 something for the stock engine in the front) car that's more useable on a daily basis than a Veyron. Much more. You wouldn't mind kids keying it in a parking lot as much (though I don't think kids would key it after seeing what's under the hatch... they'd probably take cameraphone pics, instead). It even has a flower vase, which the Veyron doesn't. Completely road-legal in California... which many supercars, old and new, aren't. The DMV had been after him for years, the last I read... but couldn't figure out what to charge him with, since carrying cargo that does not stick out a certain distance behind your tailgate is perfectly legal... the update on the site is pretty funny, to say the least... it's something about him being a threat to national security...

 

[McLaren]

Any Ferrari motor is a work of art, but they still managed to put a lexan cover over the motor! Couldn't Bugatti do something similar?? No, because they already were losing $5 million per car....that would add more red ink to the bottom line.

Ferrari never attempted such a feat. No one has. Let's see you build a car like the Veyron & make a profit without attempting to charge $6 million for it.

Everyone except the people who are writing them off.

Considering less than 5 have been wrecked, I'd say otherwise.

It's as useless as the F1, or the Enzo, or the Speed 12, or any other hypercar when people keep putting the logic of "where can you cruise in this car" into it. ANY car can be made to potter around in a pedestrian manner, it's what happens when you mash the gas that makes the difference between them all.

Sorry, but the F1 will be much more usable than the Keating. That's just a straight up fact.

The F1 was designed to be usable. 3 seats with driver in the middle for the best view, 2 compartment spaces for 2 large suitcases a piece, light & nimble steering, suspension designed for comfort & performance, specifically made tires to, like the suspension, help the comfort & suspension. Let's also add in that it had A/C which supercars in the 90's did not commonly feature, electric windows, 10-disc stereo, & even a road side tool & first aid kit. All in a supercar from the 90's.

I'll bet the Keating doesn't even have 20% of the comfort features in the McLaren.

But the thing is that they WERE BOTH DAILY DRIVEN STREET CARS!! Just because I had a complaint about them doesn't stop my love for them and nor did it stop them from being cruised around daily. I made the sacrifices, I lived with them. Other people are like minded in that aspect.

Because you're the kind of person that has interest in doing so. The general public will not drive a car with unbearable suspension, stripped out interior, or rock hard seats on the road because road conditions will bring out the worst of those features.

That could be true too, but that makes that particular tyre manufacturer pretty good looking if their tyres can handle the 260mph.

Not really. A lot of performance tires can handle that. The thing that sets the McLaren & Veyron apart is that the tires can handle those speeds for minutes on hand.

I'd be surprised if the Keating's tires could run at 260Mph for even 5 minutes without having serious issues.

You missed two VERY IMPORTANT words there.......OVER HERE!! It's our rules for any car that attends a 1/4 mile meet and breaks that mark. So, when the Veyron does it, the marshalls will tell Mr.Rich to 🤬 off from the track and not to come back until he has a parachute on the car.

That's to keep the track owners from getting in trouble.

The Keating is shooting for the record, yet right now, it needs a parachute to stop it from those speeds. Why? Are the brakes that suspicious? McLaren's Brembos have no problem slowing down from 240Mph, nor the Veyron's SLG Carbon brakes.

With the cars that were hitting 240mph, yes they did!!

Only 1 car hit 240Mph & only it and 3 other cars hit 220Mph+. That's not ALL the cars like you claim they are. I even know for a fact one of those cars, a TT Viper did 222Mph with no chute & was driven down from Dallas for that event.

Only 4 cars came to the mile with a chute & 2 of them didn't even surpass 210Mph.

Just like it is for the Veyron, which is a point and shoot car!

No, it isn't.

For the 240mph beasts we are talking about, yes they are trailered.

Have you even been to the mile? Only 1 car hit those speeds. Some cars came on a trailer, but those cars are being built for high speeds. Nearly everyone else in the mile was either a stock or mildly modified supercar that are driven on the roads.

Another wait and see moment. But I didn't say he probably doesn't have the resources, you did, so you got called for it. And if a guy has a goal in his mind, he wouldn't be thinking of a budget. It's like VAG's president when he ordered production of the Veyron, he didn't care how much it cost to build, he wanted it done, period!!

He didn't care because he knew he had the money. VAG has millions at their hands to just throw at cars without the company going into financial trouble.

Keating is setting a goal that does require a budget, unless he just wants to piss away money & put himself into debt like other first time automakers have.

But I never said it WAS impossible, I said nearly. And as I previously stated I made the sacrifices and was prepared to live with them, and there ARE other people who think the way I think. And as I repeat, yet again, my cars were daily driven, even with the rough suspension and rough seats, etc.!!

Because you don't care about comforts. However, the majority of the world does & hardly anybody wants a car like a Keating to drive around town in.

If people wanted to live without an interior, & drive around in hard suspension, & back-hurting seats, they'd all buy track cars.

Depends on the people who buy it....if it's Mr.Rich, then yes, the Veyron might be the better choice. For some petrol heads, it's a case of taking the best there is in outright speed!

Which they will never be able to use because nobody holds an event to use that top speed unless all the Keating owners end up living near the Salt Flats.

 

[Boffin]

The 90 mile straight is in WA & SA. Learn our geography dude, especially since you are Aussie yourself!! And it wouldn't need that....like has been ALREADY REPORTED, it takes 3 miles, that's 4.83 kilometers. There's PLENTY of stretches (such as the M4, M2, M5 or M7) that are near that length.

Pffft - big deal. Do you know the precise angle of my hill I live on? No. Learn the geography - your an Aussie afterall.
The Australian gumment isn't going to shut down a road because I punter wants to go fast - and you think they'll take it lightly when someone does it around other cars? Car chases that reach 200kmph reach the news, making out its as fast as anyone's ever been. What do you think the authorities are going to do to someone going 200mph, or 260? I tell you, there was a teacher at my old school with a Commedore. It had an engine bulge and we all thought it was all show and no go. Turns out it made 530kwATW and 6 months later he was improsoned and his car destroyed for doing 180mph on public roads. So you buy a super car, may turn it to right hand drive, import it, live with the huge downsides and then one day take it to the limit to only have the thing destroyed and you put in prison. Make sense? Not to me.

The point isn't to be the most powerful thing on the road, it's to be the FASTEST, period.

ON everyday driving, you'd have more fun with an Evo - something that would be fast on the roads. Who's to say that Vauxhall Victro wasn't fast? 0-100 in 1 second, and while top speed would probably be less, again, where are you going to test it?

But who's to say they BOTH won't be successful in doing so? And haven't you heard of people calling their car a name??

Yes.....but "sucker" as in "lets start this sucker up - see how she runs" is a bit......low brow. the cars name is a TKR. "Sucker" is what Bob calls his tractor.

Now that last phrase was silly. But to answer the question, it's because it's easier to get access to a salt flat, it's not as easy to get them to close a road.

You're helping my argument. If they can't test it on the road, then whats the point. If they can't get a road close, whats the chance of one person closing a road in the first place? And how long would it take to do so? 6 months? Move to Dubai - thats and Abu Dhabi are the only places that it would make sense to have this car. And not everyone lives there. And the phrase may take it to extremes, but its the same sort of thing.

THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE DOING, MAKING IT ROAD LEGAL!! God damn, are you guys just being pig headed for the 🤬 sake of being pig headed??

You missed the "not". The question was: "but why don't they just not make it a road legal car."

Would make more sense.

Oink.

Because Bugatti are...wait for it....a LUXURY BRAND!! They pander to the richie rich's who like a soft ride. Once again, you guys are being soft, it's like you've never ridden in a car with a harder suspension.

Jenson Button had one. I don't see a wingbacked chair in the Brawn car either. And I've ridden in a GT3 cup car, a short ride in a DBRS9, both at Eastern creek, so I's say my senses are calibrated enough. No - I don't have any photo evidance, so before you out it on that thread, tell me and I'll retract it regardlessly.
There's a difference between a supercar and a hardcore street car. Both go the same speed. A Veyron and a Zonda F are supercars. They are blisteringly quick. A Gumpert Apollo is a hardcore street car - as is the Ascari A10 whateveritis. They go as fast, offer slightly more diving feel for a lot less comfort. The Veyron is not a luxury car, and if you were basing that idea on Bugatti's past, what about the Type 57 and oll the open wheeler sports cars or old? They made teh big lavish limos in the 20s and 30s, but so did Chevy - they made a V16 limo - and I would call the ZR1 a luxury car.

Any Ferrari motor is a work of art, but they still managed to put a lexan cover over the motor! Couldn't Bugatti do something similar?? No, because they already were losing $5 million per car....that would add more red ink to the bottom line.

Doesn't it strike you that it looks better like that? The Veyrons is at the same level as the back of the car. If you had the Ferrari like that, there's be a big hole before an engine.

Everyone except the people who are writing them off.

Er....then every car is not easy to drive. Corrollas would be hard to drive, golf buggies would be hard to drive.

The guy who put it in a lake, he wasn't stuggling with it at all. It wasn't on the raggady edge and I reckon he had one and on the wheel when it caught the grass and he couldn't do anything - much like he couldn't with any other. I've only heard of 1 or 2 other incidances - not very much when you look a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche etc.

Yes, if you know how high or low it's revving it might help.

If you were on a track, you would not be exiting a corner at 60mph in 6th, doing 2000rpms. And if you were, it proves that it shouldn't be on a track.

It's as useless as the F1, or the Enzo, or the Speed 12, or any other hypercar when people keep putting the logic of "where can you cruise in this car" into it. ANY car can be made to potter around in a pedestrian manner, it's what happens when you mash the gas that makes the difference between them all.

Yes - but the F1 and Enzo were designed to be used. People can puch an F1 or an Enzo to the limit. I don't think there were many Speed 12s sold - some reviews say its bareable, some don't - but the TKR has more than twice the power of the Speed 12. Think of that - it just doesn't work IMO.

 

[mafia_boy]

Ferrari never attempted such a feat. No one has. Let's see you build a car like the Veyron & make a profit without attempting to charge $6 million for it.

Ahem.

Looks like a clear cover to me.

Because you're the kind of person that has interest in doing so. The general public will not drive a car with unbearable suspension, stripped out interior, or rock hard seats on the road because road conditions will bring out the worst of those features.

Really? Then how come the Ferrari F40 sold well?? It wasn't a track only car, but at the time it was the fastest car in the world and the most expensive in the world. Look at the interior here.....

That is more spartan than my Gemini interior was even after being stripped out! You can still see the resin in the 2nd pic to reduce weight!

Not really. A lot of performance tires can handle that. The thing that sets the McLaren & Veyron apart is that the tires can handle those speeds for minutes on hand.

I'd be surprised if the Keating's tires could run at 260Mph for even 5 minutes without having serious issues.

That we shall wait and see.

That's to keep the track owners from getting in trouble.

The Keating is shooting for the record, yet right now, it needs a parachute to stop it from those speeds. Why? Are the brakes that suspicious? McLaren's Brembos have no problem slowing down from 240Mph, nor the Veyron's SLG Carbon brakes.

Safety first dude, as I said before, it's for safety.

No, it isn't.

Yes it is! The Veyron is a point and shoot car. Like the argument that you guys put to me, you can't put the 1000hp down around a corner because the electronic nannies won't let you!!

Have you even been to the mile? Only 1 car hit those speeds. Some cars came on a trailer, but those cars are being built for high speeds.

Surprise surprise. The TKR falls in that same category, built for high speeds, so the chute is there for safety!!

He didn't care because he knew he had the money. VAG has millions at their hands to just throw at cars without the company going into financial trouble.

Keating is setting a goal that does require a budget, unless he just wants to piss away money & put himself into debt like other first time automakers have.

Maybe he just has a goal of building the most outrageous car out there, and money is no object to him. That's kind of like 90% of show car builders....they spend money quicker than we can drink water!!

Because you don't care about comforts. However, the majority of the world does & hardly anybody wants a car like a Keating to drive around town in.

If people wanted to live without an interior, & drive around in hard suspension, & back-hurting seats, they'd all buy track cars.

Brings me back to the F40 comment.....how come that sold so well then?? I mean it's not like it was the most comfortable thing around or had luxury everywhere. It had no stereo, no airbags, nothing....yet it's sold nearly 6 times as many units in the same span of time that the Veyron has been around (1315 vs 200-odd). Don't think the public just wants to be pampered, some of us want our nuts twisted off by the sadistic car we own.

Which they will never be able to use because nobody holds an event to use that top speed unless all the Keating owners end up living near the Salt Flats.

Who said they NEED a salt flat?? Autobahn baby, autobahn.

As for you 80Y 2C2, I've just seen your comment after doing the preview post, so I'll get to your answers in a little bit. But the first comment I'll respond to which is this:

Pffft - big deal. Do you know the precise angle of my hill I live on? No. Learn the geography - your an Aussie afterall.

Do I even know where you live?? No. So give me your address.

 

[Boffin]

As for you 80Y 2C2, I've just seen your comment after doing the preview post, so I'll get to your answers in a little bit. But the first comment I'll respond to which is this:

I feel you pain. Have a look at a discussion between me an HFS, with another guy. Took 2 hours for me to respond - I had to do it in MS word lol.

Do I even know where you live?? No. So give me your address.

And hear the bell ring an hour later? No way lol.

On that - whats the Cressy doing? I need to do another photoshoot .

 

[McLaren]

Ahem.
Looks like a clear cover to me.

Ferrari never attempted a $5 million car. Thanks for proving my point though.

Really? Then how come the Ferrari F40 sold well?? It wasn't a track only car, but at the time it was the fastest car in the world and the most

That is more spartan than my Gemini interior was even after being stripped out! You can still see the resin in the 2nd pic to reduce weight!

Sure it doesn't have more to do with the fact it was a special edition Ferrari?
Or maybe you missed the fact that F40s aren't daily driven because of their harshness, or rarity?

Thanks for proving another point.

That we shall wait and see.

We won't because Keating will never try to do so.

Safety first dude, as I said before, it's for safety.

No, it's lack of faith. A car shooting for the production record should be in production form, not having a parachute to stop it.

Bugatti did it without a chute, McLaren did without a chute. Actually, I'm pretty sure every car that ended up being the fastest production in the last 20 years didn't use a chute.

Yes it is! The Veyron is a point and shoot car. Like the argument that you guys put to me, you can't put the 1000hp down around a corner because the electronic nannies won't let you!!

Sorry, it isn't. If you read any reviews about it, you'd find out that the Veyron is a superb handling car despite its weight.

Surprise surprise. The TKR falls in that same category, built for high speeds, so the chute is there for safety!!

The other cars aren't touting themselves as production cars & require those chutes because a Supra wasn't engineered to withstand 240Mph. The Keating is, so why does it need one? There's the difference.

Maybe he just has a goal of building the most outrageous car out there, and money is no object to him. That's kind of like 90% of show car builders....they spend money quicker than we can drink water!!

It will be when the bank, or better yet, the consumer when they come looking for their cars.

Brings me back to the F40 comment.....how come that sold so well then?? I mean it's not like it was the most comfortable thing around or had luxury everywhere. It had no stereo, no airbags, nothing....yet it's sold nearly 6 times as many units in the same span of time that the Veyron has been around (1315 vs 200-odd). Don't think the public just wants to be pampered, some of us want our nuts twisted off by the sadistic car we own.

Too bad again, you ignore a few facts.
1) F40s were never daily driven.
2) They sold due to the Ferrari badge & due so, became collectors' cars.
3) F40s did not retail for even half the price of a Veyron.
4) Veyron production is limited to 300. There will never be more than that.

Despite this, there have been plenty of different Veyrons seen on the road. Most F40s seen in 1 location are the same one.

Who said they NEED a salt flat?? Autobahn baby, autobahn.

The Autobahn has a speed limit in most parts & large amounts of traffic.

 

[Rue]

I have a very good article from, I think, Octane magazine regarding this amateurish bodge job and the general 'professionalism' of this company. I will try and dig it out and scan it. This car has no right to even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Veyron or any other 200+ mph road car.