Veyron?? SSC Aero?? Pah! Meet the NEW king of speed!!

[Tornado]

Really? Then how come the Ferrari F40 sold well??

It was the car built celebrating the 40th Anniversary of the company. It was the last car commissioned by Enzo Ferrari himself before his death. It was the absolute pinnacle of all of Ferrari's expertise in building race cars. Etc.

 

[Sharky.]

No, it's lack of faith. A car shooting for the production record should be in production form, not having a parachute to stop it.

Bugatti did it without a chute, McLaren did without a chute. Actually, I'm pretty sure every car that ended up being the fastest production in the last 20 years didn't use a chute.

Agreed. Since when are parachutes road-legal? If the exact spec that set the record isn't road-legal then the car shouldn't be eligible for the record, as production car implies that you can buy a version (precisely like the one that set the record) from a showroom and drive it home. Good luck doing that with a 1700bhp, 260+mph car with something you find on NHRA cars hanging off its ass.

Sure, it might be faster than the SSC Aero, but the Aero will still be the world's fastest "proper" production car. At least the Aero can come to a stop by itself, without needing any outside assistance...

 

[homeforsummer]

No pinch of salt fail, you said it, I called you out on it.

I said:

Great, so there's one road in the entire world on which you could extract the performance.

What bit of that looked like I was being genuinely, properly serious that I really really believed there was only one road in the entire world you could get to that speed on?

My point still stands. If it takes three miles of flat-out acceleration to get to that speed, where could you honestly use that performance? There are probably a handful of places in the world where you could go for three miles at full throttle in a 900bhp car without coming across something you had to brake for.

You could say the same about the Veyron but then the Veyron, as has been mentioned, has numerous other talents too. The thing in the OP has one talent: speed.

Well it was 8am when I answered so yes, I only just woke up. Like you have 100% brain function when you first wake up.

Now that you mention it, I do. It's a useful skill when I occasionally have to wake up and be lucid enough to immediately drive to work for 7am...

And regardless, it doesn't take a great deal of brain power to regognise a typo.

What, because it isn't a "volume" car makes it bad?? PA-LEASE!! Tell that to the guys at Noble while you're at it, all their cars are basically "specials" but their M600 stomps everything bar the Veyron.

Noble sells a production run of all their cars, like Bugatti. Not just a single unit. I don't see the relevance of bringing them up?

Also, unimpressive =/= bad. I suspect there are several hundred engineering firms in the world who could make a 250mph+ car just to say they've beaten Bugatti. It still wouldn't be impressive though because like the thing we're discussing it'd still be just a one-off with no talents beyond outright speed. The Veryon is being produced in decent numbers and every single one of them, whatever colour it is or whatever or whatever trim the owner has opted for, is capable of 250mph.

Whether you think it's impressive or not, or whether you think it's some David vs. Goliath battle matters not a jot to me. Making a one-off special to break the production Veyron's record by a handful of MPH isn't that impressive.

I care if it hits 300mph, and I'm just a regular car nut! Where on Earth can you use that performance you ask.....something called an autobahn, it's a little closer to you than me. The TKR and the Veyron are both proper road cars, just you can enjoy different things in each car....it's not like there is a set standard of what makes a car a car.

As mentioned before, try going flat out for three miles on the Autobahn in a 900bhp car. I'd be surprised if you could get more than 30 seconds of full throttle without having to slow down again. It simply isn't useable. And the TKR is even less useable because it's putting that power down through two wheels. It'd more than likely spin up the wheels in any gear at more than half throttle.

Seriously, I can't see in any way how it'd be an enjoyable road car. You can't use the performance, and it's essentially a race car so doesn't have even basic comforts that you'd expect from a road car. Also, it'd likely be rubbish on most roads because no doubt it's set up fairly stiffly, and things like the aforementioned 400bhp Evo would just walk away from it.

 

[daan]

And regardless, it doesn't take a great deal of brain power to regognise a typo.

Brilliant!

 

[homeforsummer]

Brilliant!

 

[mafia_boy]

My wife was being a computer hog last night, so I would love to do a novel for an answer but won't as it would take too 🤬 long, but I will answer the short bits.

Now that you mention it, I do. It's a useful skill when I occasionally have to wake up and be lucid enough to immediately drive to work for 7am...

And regardless, it doesn't take a great deal of brain power to regognise a typo.

Try it after 2hrs sleep then come back to me because I was helping my sister-in-law's parents get organised to travel back to Sydney which is a 1500km drive. I DOUBT your brain power would be 100% after that.

Seriously, I can't see in any way how it'd be an enjoyable road car. You can't use the performance, and it's essentially a race car so doesn't have even basic comforts that you'd expect from a road car. Also, it'd likely be rubbish on most roads because no doubt it's set up fairly stiffly, and things like the aforementioned 400bhp Evo would just walk away from it.

I will ask this.....WHAT EVO WITH ONLY 400BHP DOES 400km/h?!?!



See where your defence falls flat with the "Oh the Evo will walk away" story.......yeah it might destroy the TKR at launch, but to get it to 400km/h, another story!! That's why I mentioned the SPEED, but that seems to pass over your head more times than the sun in one year, which is worse than my little hit about your one typo!!

Who has the lack of brain power now??

Mafs!! (typing with a bit more than 2hrs sleep today! )

 

[the Interceptor]

I will ask this.....WHAT EVO WITH ONLY 400BHP DOES 400km/h?!?!

See where your defence falls flat with the "Oh the Evo will walk away" story.......yeah it might destroy the TKR at launch, but to get it to 400km/h, another story!! That's why I mentioned the SPEED, but that seems to pass over your head more times than the sun in one year, which is worse than my little hit about your one typo!!

I might be wrong, but I think the Evo reference was made with off-the-line street racing in mind. And in that, a car like Keating is not of much use since it finds itself in usually less than ideal grip conditions and speeds where it can't put its power down. So at the moment the TKR would start to shine, acceleration at higher speeds, the race ususally is over already, and the Evo has won. And that's why 400+ km/h top speed sounds great, but isn't of any use in the real world. Same goes for track racing.

You were the one who started to talk about a race to 400 km/h, so don't expect anyone to answer the above question. An Evo with 400 bhp will not do 400 km/h, but then noone claimed it would.

 

[Alex.]

TKR looks like a death trap to me.

 

[mafia_boy]

I might be wrong, but I think the Evo reference was made with off-the-line street racing in mind. And in that, a car like Keating is not of much use since it finds itself in usually less than ideal grip conditions and speeds where it can't put its power down. So at the moment the TKR would start to shine, acceleration at higher speeds, the race ususally is over already, and the Evo has won. And that's why 400+ km/h top speed sounds great, but isn't of any use in the real world. Same goes for track racing.

You were the one who started to talk about a race to 400 km/h, so don't expect anyone to answer the above question. An Evo with 400 bhp will not do 400 km/h, but then noone claimed it would.

Actually, when you have responses to my quote, "when a 400hp Evo does 400km/h I'll eat my PC piece by piece" of "start marinading", then yes it's implied that people do think so.

 

[Boffin]

I will ask this.....WHAT EVO WITH ONLY 400BHP DOES 400km/h?!?!

ZOMG!!!! What roads replicate the length and lack of traffic of salt flats? .00005%. What are most roads like? Race track more than salt flats. Trcky corners, elevation change, potholes etc....

Who would win a hot lap battle round a technical track between an Exige S and an SSC Aero? Probably the Exige. Does that mean the Exige has more usable power and performance? Yes. Do you think the SSC would go faster if you squeezed out another 500hp? No. Power does NOT solve anything.

 

[Jim Prower]

I think the Veyron was the last relevant speed champ. The SSC and Keating are one-trick ponies.

Personally, in this category, gimme a McLaren F1. LM. Because I'd rather have downforce to top speed.

And the keating's engine? 1,750hp is better used in doorslammer racing...it's too much for Monster trucks, at least, indoors.

 

[McLaren]

I think the Veyron was the last relevant speed champ. The SSC and Keating are one-trick ponies.

Personally, in this category, gimme a McLaren F1. LM. Because I'd rather have downforce to top speed.

And the keating's engine? 1,750hp is better used in doorslammer racing...it's too much for Monster trucks, at least, indoors.

In the SSC's defense, it was engineered to have a few good handling traits. However, low availability in them have kept most magazines from getting a hold of one.

However, the SSC can be used daily if you wish.

When Shelby brought his car to me for a test drive, I admit I had never heard of it. I wasn’t aware of it at all. But after I saw the Aero and then drove it, I was really impressed. This is not a prototype. It’s a real street- and emissions-legal car. I drove it on a very hot, 100-degree Los Angeles day. The water temperature never went over 190, and the oil temp stabilized at around 220 degrees. If some of these other ultrafast cars get a little hot, you have to shut them off and wait. They’re not very practical. But the SSC Aero is really functional. It’s not fragile. You can beat the Aero up all day, and it’ll keep running. And it’s got a nav system, a backup camera, a 10-speaker stereo/CD system and even room in the trunk! You could probably commute to work in this car if you wanted to.

 

[JCE]

Pointless car for a pointless statistic.

Top Speed? Who cares. I'll take a slower but million-times more comfortable DB9 or Porsche 911 thanks.

 

[Boffin]

I summing up, I like this car for pushing boundaries and everything - but there's a certain time and place for them. Also - 5 men in a shed won't make as good a car as a huge corporation. Engineering wise - we need this sort of stuff. But its useless and uncomfortable. Its great they made it, but I wouldn't have one. At all.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

First off I would like to mention how funny this thread is to someone reading it not in the argument. You have a group of people saying the car sucks and cant handle and yet no one has ever seen a video of the car in action or any data on the car at all except for the engine and horse power. Then you have.....well i guess just mafia, defending the car and being one of the people that doesn't mind a car with a stiff suspension and a lot of horse power. Now on to my one reason for posting in the rather hilarious thread.

I summing up, I like this car for pushing boundaries and everything - but there's a certain time and place for them. Also - 5 men in a shed won't make as good a car as a huge corporation. Engineering wise - we need this sort of stuff. But its useless and uncomfortable. Its great they made it, but I wouldn't have one. At all.

This is funny to me because I herd a good quote on the iRacing forums that would knock this on it's ass. You can lock 100 great musicians in a room together and tell them to not come out until they have created something as great as the white album. But you know what those 100 musicians may never come out. what you really need is 4 or 5 great musicians. Sometimes less is more and 5 guys with money and dedication i believe could easily create something then your precious Bugatti Veyron because those 4 or 5 people wont have the restrictions put on them from higher ups with time restraints and having to have it conform to the style of the masses. They can build what they think is the ultimate machine with out having people tell them what it needs.

 

[Boffin]

This is funny to me because I herd a good quote on the iRacing forums that would knock this on it's ass. You can lock 100 great musicians in a room together and tell them to not come out until they have created something as great as the white album. But you know what those 100 musicians may never come out. what you really need is 4 or 5 great musicians. Sometimes less is more and 5 guys with money and dedication i believe could easily create something then your precious Bugatti Veyron because those 4 or 5 people wont have the restrictions put on them from higher ups with time restraints and having to have it conform to the style of the masses. They can build what they think is the ultimate machine with out having people tell them what it needs.

Wow thats a curve ball if ever I saw one.
VAG WANTED to build the Bugatti. Shown by the way the project started, but also how much they lose per car. They set criteria, they achieved it. At Bugatti - they have multi million dollar equipment with amazingly experienced boffins, and staff. Seeing 5 guys at the back of a shed taking out the LS7, one day before running, may look cool - but it isn't. Bugatti prepare. They wouldn't put an engine in at 6 the night before the big test - they'd run endless tests first. Sure - it shows that the TKR has some potential (for going in a straight line) but it shows Bugatti is more concerned with quality assurance - something we've been bantering on about before you came with a wayward quote.
If Bugatti didn't want to make the Veyron, trust me, they wouldn't have. There were too many problems stopping the project if it was not for the passion of the engineers.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Wow thats a curve ball if ever I saw one.
VAG WANTED to build the Bugatti. Shown by the way the project started, but also how much they lose per car. They set criteria, they achieved it. At Bugatti - they have multi million dollar equipment with amazingly experienced boffins, and staff. Seeing 5 guys at the back of a shed taking out the LS7, one day before running, may look cool - but it isn't. Bugatti prepare. They wouldn't put an engine in at 6 the night before the big test - they'd run endless tests first. Sure - it shows that the TKR has some potential (for going in a straight line) but it shows Bugatti is more concerned with quality assurance - something we've been bantering on about before you came with a wayward quote.
If Bugatti didn't want to make the Veyron, trust me, they wouldn't have. There were too many problems stopping the project if it was not for the passion of the engineers.

I think you just missed the entire point I was trying to make. I was only making reference to one small thing you said and you added a whole lot of filler that has nothing to do with the point I was debating you on. The only thing i was making a point about was your assumption that a small group of people can not make something that can compete on a scale of a major corporation. Good example would be Fisker Automotive a small company that came out of left field (notice the pun on your baseball reference ). A small company that has built quite an impressive machine that would probably cost the boys at VAG twice the amount of money and twice the amount of time to come up with. But because it is only one person doing the design and in charge of the project instead of a board of directors things tend to be more streamlined and less bureaucratic. Im sure if you would have put one person in charge of the design of the Veyron with good finical backing like Fisker has had they car would not have taken nearly as long to build and cost a lot less money. But since everything goes in front of a board before approval things get drawn out and multiple options have to be looked at first and so on and so forth. and i belive you pointed that out in your last sentence with the number of problems that arose during the build of the veyron.

The ONLY point I was getting at was that you should never say a small group of people can not build something as good if not better then a major corporation could.

But clearly from this line

something we've been bantering on about before you came with a wayward quote.

The only people allowed to have a say in this conversation were already talking I'm sorry for interrupting and i wont post again in your precious thread.

 

[Boffin]

The ONLY point I was getting at was that you should never say a small group of people can not build something as good if not better then a major corporation could.

Better in what way?

What you said makes sense, but what I was getting at is that the chance they can make a better car are next to nil. It's humanly possible, but not very likely.

But clearly from this line



The only people allowed to have a say in this conversation were already talking I'm sorry for interrupting and i wont post again in your precious thread.

Thats not was I was trying to go for, and I'm sorry if you think that I was, but you were picking up on quite a small and off-to-one-side part of the discussion. 👍

 

[mafia_boy]

The only people allowed to have a say in this conversation were already talking I'm sorry for interrupting and i wont post again in your precious thread.

Actually, it's MY precious thread, and you're MORE THAN WELCOME to talk in it. 👍

I read the initial post and just applauded you. It's exactly what I'm trying to say aswell. Ooooh, it's VAG, let's and grovel at their feet over the Veyron. Then in the same breath when another car comes out of a shed that's FASTER than it, they want to bitch about all the other credentials that the Veyron has and dismiss the TKR like it's nothing because it HASN'T got luxury butt wipers or something else, yet the TKR is untested around a track, and has a parachute for safety reasons and get stupid comments like "The Veyron doesn't need a chute, blah blah blah" when obviously the TKR isn't 1000000% ready like the Veyron, and when it is then I'll be sitting back watching the sheep go, "FWOOAR, did you see that TKR, what a beast!!"......

 

[Boffin]

"....what a crash as the go kart with nearly 2000hp is floored down a public road and into a tree."

 

[mafia_boy]

*sighs*

*shakes head*

*walks away*

BAAA!!

 

[Boffin]

Its true. Car enthusiasts say that driver aids are for the week and feable, and usually I'd agree with them , but this need restraint.

 

[niky]

Its true. Car enthusiasts say that driver aids are for the week and feable, and usually I'd agree with them , but this need restraint.

What?

Where? Did we miss the part about the dragster being driven home after a run?

Every single car on the road today has the capacity to utterly kill you if you don't have personal restraint.

A dynamic stability system won't brake for you when you come to a corner, traction control won't prevent you from going past the speed limit if you please, and all the aids in the world won't stop this:

You can argue that a Veyron is more worth the money because of the extensive research, testing and engineering that went into giving it a smooth and reliable gearbox, 250 mph tires and an epic drivetrain...

You can even argue that the "heritage" in the name justifies some of the price tag...

But to argue that it is somehow better because "2000 hp" is too much for anyone to control is incredibly petty. 300 hp in a rear-wheel drive car is already "too much" for many people... to draw an arbitrary line between 1000 and 2000 just to support a car you like versus one you don't is childish.

-

Again, pointless car... since all it would take to top this is for someone to sell a road-legal version of a 300 mph salt-lake speedster... but some of the claims people are making about it without knowing a single thing about it are absolutely beyond belief. It won't handle... blah blah blah... it's unreliable... blah blah blah... the company is shady... blah blah blah... (hey, guess what... so is Hennessey... but that doesn't stop their Vipers from being incredibly fast)...

 

[Boffin]

Yeah - of course humans need to operate restaint, but I'm talking electronig aids.

The TKR is presumably quite light, and with 1750hp would be more dangerous and prove to crashing than, say, a Lotus Elise.

And if we have to operate the TKP with increased restraint, whats the point of it? I don't want to feather the throttle, but I'd have to in this, and soon the clutch, which tired your leg out, will let go.

As I said, I think this a case of too much power.

 

[Sharky.]

"....what a crash as the go kart with nearly 2000hp is floored down a public road and into a tree."

Police: "Hey, look! The parachute deployed, he must've been doing 260mph!"

Good luck worming your way out of that ticket.

 

[Boffin]

Hahaha - lol. Wasn't that the problem with the SL65 Black?

 

[mafia_boy]

What?

Where? Did we miss the part about the dragster being driven home after a run?

Top call. 👍

Again, pointless car... since all it would take to top this is for someone to sell a road-legal version of a 300 mph salt-lake speedster... but some of the claims people are making about it without knowing a single thing about it are absolutely beyond belief. It won't handle... blah blah blah... it's unreliable... blah blah blah... the company is shady... blah blah blah... (hey, guess what... so is Hennessey... but that doesn't stop their Vipers from being incredibly fast)...

Thankyou niky for backing up what I've said the whole time.....let's just WAIT AND SEE if it can't handle, if it's unreliable & if it's a polished piece of dog turd!

 

[Boffin]

Oh I'm sure it will handle if you fit a slightly peppered RB26 in the back making 500hp.

NOTHING will handle, not even from Lotus or McLaren if you put 1750hp through it. Or at least its amazingly extremely unlikely.

 

[niky]

Yeah - of course humans need to operate restaint, but I'm talking electronig aids.

The TKR is presumably quite light, and with 1750hp would be more dangerous and prove to crashing than, say, a Lotus Elise.

And if we have to operate the TKP with increased restraint, whats the point of it? I don't want to feather the throttle, but I'd have to in this, and soon the clutch, which tired your leg out, will let go.

As I said, I think this a case of too much power.

Bugatti Veyron: Use of half-throttle for more than a few seconds is potentially fatal.

That is more dangerous than a Lotus Elise. Especially on a road that's too narrow for it.

A 1750 hp car (I know I've said this about a 500 hp car...) doesn't make 1750 hp from the moment you let off the throttle.

A Viper will just as soon kill you if you look at it crosswise. Use more than half the revs on that on a less-than-perfect road and it'll spit you into the hedges in no time flat.

BUT: As I've said before: My aunt used to drive one to work. Every day. Over the rutted rural roads of Spokane, Washington. Which is about as close to the North Pole as a US town can get without being in Alaska.

It doesn't require inhuman restraint.

Not that I imagine a 1750 hp car will be particularly easy to drive... but saying that it'll be dangerous to let go of the clutch kind of overestimates what problems you would have with the car... especially as it's probable that they will sell this car with a switch to toggle between engine and boost maps to make it more civil for street use... (again... if it is ever sold... and if the company actually makes a good go of it. Not saying they will).

Though about the clutch letting go... hmmm... that's a sad fact of life for many 500-600 hp cars already, so it's not really anything new... ...but then again... we don't know yet, now do we?

 

[Boffin]

I'm not saying day to day feathering the throttle.

Bugatti Veyron: Use of half-throttle for more than a few seconds is potentially fatal.

If you floor it off the line, or half floor it, computers set to work and wheel spin is at a minimum. The tires maintain a much higher grip with the car, up to the point whee its only fatal because the driver failed to stop in time, I'm more talking about acceleration.

If someone hoons in a TKR and they light the rears up, there's way more potential for things to get out of hand. The back could flick out etc.