VGTA Handicap Championship. Mondays, 8:00pm GMT, from 10th Jan 2022.PS4 

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Similar doubts here.

I guess week 1 rules are clear and they go like this:

Race 1 - everyone in a Porsche

Race 2 (in this example 14 drivers took part and finished it)-
1st to 3rd in race 1 - Nissan (mandatory, you can't pick anything else)
4th to 10th in race 1- Nissan or Porsche
11th and 12th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche or Ferrari
13th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche, Ferrari or Mustang
14th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche, Ferrari, Mustang or Jaguar

I guess disconnects don't count, but if it happens (say I enter race 1 in a roster of 15 drivers but get a disconnect mid race - happened before) I wonder how Zolon handles it? Default car?
That's doubt 1

Now, for week 2 and all others, I guess it is clear that we are allocated cars available (by the organizer, meaning Zolon) and when we pick one we have to stick with it for both races of that particular week. So, if as an example , I can pick the Nissan, the Porsche and the Ferrari I will make my choice for race 1 and then that car becomes my car (mandatory) for race 2.

But I have another doubt regarding the handicap system. The way Zolon wrote I guess it is clear that the cars aren't allocated according to our position in the chmapionship table, but according to our average finishing position in the races we actually take part in (and finish). So, let' assume Napalm enters week 1 and wins both races, but then isn't able to enter week 2. For week 3 will he still be allocated a Nissan-only slot due to average finishing position? Even if he is, by then, only 6th in the championship table?
That's doubt 2

Finally, if indeed the car allocation/handicap system isn't ruled by the campionship table, instead by the handicap system as conceived by Zolon, when will we be informed of the car allocations for next week? That's doubt 3

See you all later! :cheers:
 
4,806
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Race 2 (in this example 14 drivers took part and finished it)-
1st to 3rd in race 1 - Nissan (mandatory, you can't pick anything else)
4th to 10th in race 1- Nissan or Porsche
11th and 12th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche or Ferrari
13th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche, Ferrari or Mustang
14th in race 1 - Nissan, Porsche, Ferrari, Mustang or Jaguar
That is not how I interpret it. Drivers don't have a choice of what car they should drive for race 2.
Again it's only how I see it, I'm sure Zolon will pop in at some point and explain it all for us.


From the OP:
Zolon
For the very first race everyone will be in the Porsche. At that meeting, for the second race, those effected by the handicap will change cars. The drivers who came 1st, 2nd and 3rd will take the Nissan. The driver who came last will be allocated the E-Type, second last, the Mustang, and the two drivers ahead of them (third and fourth last) will get the mental waterbed that is the Ferrari 365 allocated to them.

As I understand it the drivers who aren't affected by allocations for the second race will remain in the Porsche,
and those who are affected will have a predetermined car allocated for them. They don't have a free choice of car.
Using your example of 14 Porsche cars from race number one, I suspect it goes like this for the second race:


Race 1 results 👇
1st Nissan for race 2
2ndNissan for race 2
3rdNissan for race 2
4th Porsche for race 2
5thPorsche for race 2
6thPorsche for race 2
7thPorsche for race 2
8thPorsche for race 2
9thPorsche for race 2
10thPorsche for race 2
11thFerrari for race 2
12thFerrari for race 2
13thMustang for race 2
14thE-Type for race 2


Then again I might be wrong about it all 😊
 

IfAndOr

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Then again I might be wrong about it all
Easily done. :D

I think Mario (Hun200kph) has been looking at this section.
The three who have the best average results will have the Nissan. Everyone else has a choice of car, from No1 (Nissan) to No5 (E-Type). The number of cars you can choose from will be dictated by your handicap. The one who has the lowest average finishing position can choose cars 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. The next up, with the second lowest average finishing position can choose from cars 1, 2, 3, or 4. Those with the third and fourth lowest averages can have cars 1, 2, or 3. The three clever clogs who have the highest average results will have no choice but to use the Nissan, whilst everyone else can have either the Nissan, or car No2 (the Porsche).
Originally it was that you were just to use the car allocated, but some of the faster cars can be less easy to control which kind of defeated the handicapping. So Zo added the bit above. Basically (depending on your handicapping results) you can use a slower car if you like one in particular, but never a faster one.

As for Mario's 3 queries, I'll leave to Zo!
 
4,806
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Sweden
Easily done. :D

I think Mario (Hun200kph) has been looking at this section.

Originally it was that you were just to use the car allocated, but some of the faster cars can be less easy to control which kind of defeated the handicapping. So Zo added the bit above. Basically (depending on your handicapping results) you can use a slower car if you like one in particular, but never a faster one.

As for Mario's 3 queries, I'll leave to Zo!
Ah well my misunderstanding is a relief then for I was dreading a vicious cycle personally
because I found the E-Type to be the most difficult car for me to handle.

I've foreseen a scenario where I'm last over the line and get allocated the E-Type,
whereby I finish last again because I can't drive it. And get allocated the E-Type
once more for finishing last.. and finish last again because I can't drive the darn thing
and the cycle continues 🤭
 
1,651
United Kingdom
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Zolon32
Firstly chaps, may I say, I love you all, and deeply regret any consternation my damned handicap system has caused 😀
Week 2: First race choise of car depends on your position in the Champioship ?? and the 2nd race the car of your choise depends of your position at the end of the first race of week 2 (???)
So, firstly, I'll address this enquiry from Don.

The car allocation depends on your average finishing position, not your position in the championship. The reason for this is that a quick driver might miss two weeks meetings, then get himself in the E-Type, or Ferrari/Mustang and simply blast off into the distance.
I guess disconnects don't count, but if it happens (say I enter race 1 in a roster of 15 drivers but get a disconnect mid race - happened before) I wonder how Zolon handles it? Default car?
Good point Mario. Disconnects are going to count as a last place, with as many points as were relevant for last place in that particular race. I'm going to have to accept that there is no practical way of saying "Driver X got a disconnect, as did Driver Y, but Driver X must carry a greater handicap, because we all know he is quicker." Therefore, disconnects count as last place for points, and for the handicap system.

So, let' assume Napalm enters week 1 and wins both races, but then isn't able to enter week 2. For week 3 will he still be allocated a Nissan-only slot due to average finishing position? Even if he is, by then, only 6th in the championship table?
That's a correct interpretation of the system Mario. There's little point in giving Napalm (Or you, for that matter) the E-Type. We might as well just give you the points, and the night off :)


I can pick the Nissan, the Porsche and the Ferrari I will make my choice for race 1 and then that car becomes my car (mandatory) for race 2.
This is a really good point, not specifically covered in the regulations. But my interpretation of my own rules would be that, given the flexibility in choice offered to a driver in, say, the Ferrari, that choice remains in place during a meeting. In other words, that driver can swap out of the Ferrari and into one of the slower cars for either, or both races.


Finally, if indeed the car allocation/handicap system isn't ruled by the campionship table, instead by the handicap system as conceived by Zolon, when will we be informed of the car allocations for next week? That's doubt 3
Yes indeed. I will be telling you that you are in the Nissan with almost immediate effect! 😀


The secretary has got the day off. :dopey:
Get your ass back to work!


Ah well my misunderstanding is a relief then for I was dreading a vicious cycle personally
because I found the E-Type to be the most difficult car for me to handle.

I've foreseen a scenario where I'm last over the line and get allocated the E-Type,
whereby I finish last again because I can't drive it. And get allocated the E-Type
once more for finishing last.. and finish last again because I can't drive the darn thing
and the cycle continues 🤭
I hope we have been able to put your mind at rest Jocke. If you do end up with the E-Type, then the Mustang with a stable setting makes an excellent substitute. Don't forget T/C and ABS are available anyway.


See you a little later fellas, hopefully it'll all become much clearer when we put it into practice.
 
544
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
half_sourly
Results from Round 1:

Race 1:
Race 1.jpg


Race 2:
Race 2.jpg


Standings:
Monday Individual.jpg
 
6,827
Portugal
Lisboa
GTP_Hun
Quick recap

RACE 1 - Porsche
Got pole position and managed to stay in front at the start, was followed closely by @IfAndOr and @Napalm_LT for a few laps but managed to stay out of trouble (and mistakes) until the flag.

RACE 2 - Nissan
The Gods ... (you know the rest) were favourable to me, granting me pole position again. Started ok but by the end of lap 1 I was already second behind @Saltyjoe90 .

Then I had an entire race fighting @Pantheons, with the exception of maybe two laps when a fast charging Mustang driven by @Zolon32 clawed his way into the front and got behind me. He looked very likely to overtake me but for some reason had a braking issue and spun/crashed behind me (I suspect @Zolon threw his race away trying to avoid hitting the back of my car and if that's the case I sincerely thank him for that :) )

The race-length fight with Simon was one for the ages, he was mostly in front of me but I think that in the end it favoured my race, because his car provided me with many laps of slipstream. I guess that's how I managed to do a few 2.19 laps with that car and, considering the length of the race, it saved me from falling back into the clutches of the main pack of Porsches. @jammy21 made an excellent race, keeping out of the spotlight due to a early pitstop (checking @Don Mejillone 's video I noticed he had a 1st lap crash/entanglement so he probably got immediately rid of any damage and that was a wise decision).

I'm not sure about this but I will guess that, had @Saltyjoe90 noticed the threat he would have gone quicker in the Porsche, it seems to me Joe made a race controlling the field and unaware that @jammy21 had already pitted (my FL in the Nissan was even better than Joe's was in the Porsche so that means he wasn't giving it his all, obviously)

Final thoughts

I was always very aware of the fact that we were racing with penalties and damage ON.

Regarding damage, I think I raced sensibly, always gave a wide margin reacting to overtake attempts by others or trying overtakes myself (Joe and Simon can say if this is true also from their POV, but at least I tried). And I think it really doesn't detract from the racing experience, quite the contrary.

About the penalties, of course there is some inconsistency and sometimes we get seconds added to our car aven after we slowed considerably and for a long time, while in other moments the penalty goes away almost without us slowing. I remember getting a penalty warning that wouldn't go away no matter what I did and in the end I had to concede my racing position to Simon before being free to race again. It's possibly frustrating, but it is also an integral part of racing so all things considered I like it this way.

I know I carry the yellow jersey (err ... Nissan) for week 2 at Sakitto. Have to test it but considering the track layout I hope it's less of an handicap there then it was at Silverstone, so I keep my hope that good results will be possible*. Again I fear damage and penalties more than I fear the handicap, we'll see how it goes (can't be lucky all the time ;) )

Cheers all, was fun, and thanks Zolon for creating such an interesting and challenging championship.

Edit - *It's also worthy of mention - and good to know :D - that @jammy21 and @Saltyjoe90 will use the Nissan also, but that still leaves many fast drivers with the Porsches, not to mention @Zolon32 in the Jaguar :ill:

Edit2 - Xeronina, hope you are better and can make it to Sakkito next week. If you do, please please don't send me into the pits again :crazy:;)
 
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294
United Kingdom
Norfolk UK
Pantheons
Really enjoyed the racing (well done organising Zol), shame I couldn't have saved the 2nd race to watch back. (@Hun200kmh how did you check Dons video? is it online?) I watched the first one back. You were (as usual Mario) very sensible, its me thats more likely to be an unintentional erratic problem lol. In my pitstop I didn't do any damage repair or tyre change, but did probably add fuel when it wasn't needed. I dont have the skill to amend pitstops on the fly so I had to preset it before the race and pray.
 
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jammy21

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1st race's quali went bad as I got penalty warning and I slowed down (almost stopped) before it went away and that is for good lap time. Race went ok.
2nd race was - at the begin - bad as I make mistakes and caused incidents/contacts to other cars (sorry to everyone that I made contact and cause any damage - I need to be better/cleaner driver next races) and got bad suspension damaged and needed to go pitstop on 2nd lap. Rest of the race was better.
 
1,651
United Kingdom
England
Zolon32
(I suspect @Zolon threw his race away trying to avoid hitting the back of my car and if that's the case I sincerely thank him for that :) )
I was trying to avoid smashing into you Mario, but it was my mistake that caused that situation, and I only lost a few seconds during that event. For the real 'Thirteen-course-meal' of damage I had to spin it in front of Don has he belted along one of the straights flat out; again, my fault... sooooooo sorry Don :dunce:

Anyway, next Monday is an all together different event, and it's a chance for me to gain back a little self respect. Or, to destroy the E-Type, and suffer more defeat!

However, in any case, congratulations to Mario, Jammy, Joe, Paul and Napalm. Good to see the cream rising to the top, even in a handicapped event. I'm fascinated to see how it goes with three of them in Nissans, whilst the other two are in Porsches.

Thankfully, the handicap for next week is quite simple;

@Hun200kmh @jammy21 @Saltyjoe90 you are all in the Nissan.

@Don Mejillone @half_sourly you are allocated the Ferrari, so can take it, or any car further up the list.

@Oldbass47 you are allocated the Mustang, so can take it, or any car from further up the list.

Zolon, you're in the... well, you know what you're in :)

Everyone else, including anyone who was unable to take part at Silverstone, have the choice of the Porsche or Nissan.


It will make barely any difference at all, but, following Paul's good suggestion, I will have the Tyre/fuel settings at accelerated/use on for both races next week. This will make things simpler for me, and allow me to concentrate on driving, perhaps.
 
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IfAndOr

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can't wait to know everyone's handicap for next week
I knew mine already, it's my seat. I must get an extra cushion for the longer race.
I was always very aware of the fact that we were racing with penalties and damage ON.
I didn't get any points of damage or a single "slow down" message in either of the races. Do you think I'll get any extra points? Or perhaps it's just the smug face award. ☺

and allow me to concentrate on driving, perhaps
Hmm yes, I often think I'm a bit quicker when I'm not running things. There's much less to think and worry about, just turn up and race. Now you're in charge but in last place, my theory may be true. :P
Or, to destroy the E-Type, and suffer more defeat!
How many do you have to break before you're allocated a GT3 car? That's not quite clear in the rules.


And well done @JockeP22. Some good results after being away for quite a while. And you're not in your favourite, the Jag. 😉
 
1,651
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Zolon32
How many do you have to break before you're allocated a GT3 car? That's not quite clear in the rules.
Anyone who comes below last will automatically qualify for a GT3 car.


I've just noticed how close Mario's fastest lap in race one, and Jammy's fastest lap in race two were. I can' wait for the battle at Sakkito!
 
6,827
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GTP_Hun
Offline test of a 24 lap Sakitto race. AI set at 79/79.

Tyres last the distance, Nissan being nimble holds itself in the twisty bits, seriously lacks top speed so a good corner exit before the long straights is essential.

Race is a bit boring to watch but it went OK I guess. Lap 1 corner 1 the stupid AIs piled up and I got caught. Not much damage but I decided to pit immediately. Big surprise there, I got a 2 seconds pitstop (must raise the mechanic's salaries)!

From then on I raced as if I was alone on track but managed to keep the deficit to the front guys (a pack of 6 Jags) so that meant I was lapping at their pace.

Caught a few cars on track, others when they pitted. Towards the end I managed to close in on the Jags, splitting the group and getting into 5th.

I had accumulated 5 seconds in penalties so I was destined to be 7th at the end but come the last lap the two Jags behind me didn't like the insolence of the litle Nissan and I was unceremoniously punted out.

All in all not worth watching with the possible exception of the 1st lap (including the start crash and the amazing 2 seconds pitstop) and the last lap (dirty AI being dirty).

 
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LOL, try to produce out of those 50 minutes a highlights version, filled with graphic enhancements and dramatic slow motion bits (you can add excited commentary too), call it "survive the drive" or something equally netflixy, and we'll talk! :D
 

IfAndOr

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call it "survive the drive"
Now that's better. I like the title, nice and catchy. I've been on the phone with a few contacts and the Wachowskis (Matrix) are very interested. They said that Keanu Reeves could perhaps star as yourself. Tarantino wasn't available at the time but Spielberg has mentioned he'd like to do a mini series. I'll get back to you.


I would like to do some prantice today
You and Mario need to stop practising so much. I'm going to get Zolon to change the car and track choice at the last moment. That'll slow you both down. Not for long though. ;)


Edit - I might be around later. Depends if Netflix drags me away.
 
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6,827
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Now that's better. I like the title, nice and catchy. I've been on the phone with a few contacts and the Wachowskis (Matrix) are very interested. They said that Keanu Reeves could perhaps star as yourself. Tarantino wasn't available at the time but Spielberg has mentioned he'd like to do a mini series. I'll get back to you.

Good choice, I bet Keanu Reeves would be able to convince us that Sakitto exists in reality, unlike the Matrix-created illusion of Suzuka. Or he could assume his John Wick persona and just shoot the entire Jaguar squad (something I wanted to do after what happened in the very last lap :mad: ). Yes, yes, I see how this could work!

In any case I'm still wondering how that super-fast pitstop could be replicated. 2,1 seconds is F1 level of efficiency and crucially is 3 seconds faster than any pitstop I have ever done in this game.

I may also be able to play later but not sure. Oh and it's not necessarily practise for next monday, I'll gladly do whatever random racing you guys want, I do like this game without much pressure, better replaced with a couple of bottles of beer and a bag of peanuts
 
1,092
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Napalm_LT
Did yesterday few fun races with Mario, Paul and Simon and I have few thaughts (again :) ).
Biggest posibility to pass on this track is the main straight, what means you need to be as close to car in the front as it possible on the last corner. And there we have a problem - pit entrance is on this corner (fastest corner on track) and pit entrance doesnt have pit line on the track. That means what if car ahead is going to pit ant starting hard braking on this corner, you don't know that and almost don't have any possibility to avoid accident. That happened yesterday for me - I followed Jag, it slowed to pit, I started brake as hard as it possible, touched Jag anyway, spined, Mario followed me in close distance, crashed into me at full speed and our race was finished.
I don't know how to solve that. Maybe everyone could tell what he is going to pit, if there other driver is second or closer behind. But does everyone use mic and can do that? Also in the heat of the race everyone can just forget to do that. Maybe better decision would be to do exeption for this race and not to set pit stop to mandatory?

BTW yesterday I got damage in the pits. Another car stopet right in front of me and to not hit it my "driver" moved to a side while leaving pit place and hit pit wall. Damage was only 2 %, but car didn't want to turn after that and I was slower for about second per lap. I guess damage depend not only by its amount (%), but to what actually is damaged, because car can be quit good with 10 % damage and can be almost undrivable with 5 % (had these situations).

And one ore thing :). I am not fan of random start on 2 race. I thing it is unfear to guys who drive slowe cars (Nissan), because they can be penalized twice - must use slowest car and can be sent to the end of the grid too. As example our yesterday races - Mario was really good with Nissan and could successfully defend his position if he started in front, but it was almost imposible to pass someone if he started in the back (and other drivers didn't do serious mistakes). It's a absolutelly lotery.
So, I would suggest to do qually for both races, everyone would have same possibility to start according to their pace which is not vevy different when we using different cars.

@Zolon32 you are the boss, and can decide what you want, I just pointed out some ideas (especiallly - pit entrance problem on this track).
 
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6,827
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GTP_Hun
My two cents on the concerns and suggestions presented by Napalm:

I like the mandatory pit stop, it adds an element of unpredictability to the race, but I understand how pitting can be a concern here. I think those of us that use microphone can break "in-race silence" to announce our intention, the ones that don't can tap the brakes in advance (so any car following closely notices the brake lights).

About the pits I have already experienced this (my car suffering damage in pitlane while in control of the AI) and it is very annoying. My suggestion (adding another element of reality to our races) would be changing the pitstops to manual, meaning, allowing us to keep control of the car even inside pitlane.

About the 2nd race random start I don't think it is an issue to be honest, especially because it is a long race so things tend to even out during its duration.

About our couple of races yesterday, it is clear the Nissan is no match for the Porsche at Sakitto, I couldn't keep up with you guys unless some mistake, penalty or damage came to help my situation. But that's what defines this championship DNA, and I find it a brilliant concept.
 

jammy21

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Pit entry has two entry lines - longer one (entry midlle of the corner) and shorter one right at the entry to pit. Shorter one is safer one.
 
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1,092
Lithuania
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Napalm_LT
Pit entry has two entry lines - longer one (entry midlle of the corner) and shorter one right at the entry to pit. Shorter one is saver one.
But there are cones? I wont get a penalty if I drive through them?

Maybe we could add rule - player who was going to pit must stay on the right side after fast left corner?
 
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jammy21

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Yes you can go through those cones, no penalty or anyting. Other race series we used that entry with LMP2 cars as that was only one working entry with faster cars.
 
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1,651
United Kingdom
England
Zolon32
I am not fan of random start on 2 race.
I'm not a massive fan of this either Napalm. But if I were able, I'd put it at reverse of first race finishing positions, which would probably give you, Mario, and the other fast guys a LOT of work to do. I realise that random isn't perfect, but it's just one element of luck in the series, which will, over the eight meetings, even out a bit I hope. Additionally, there is the handicap which may help people who drop down the rankings due to too much 'random grid' bad luck.

Shorter one is safer one.
Thanks for that tip Jammy, as the pit entry problem was really causing me a headache.

@half_sourly @IfAndOr @richroo @Hun200kmh @Saltyjoe90 @Pantheons @Don Mejillone @John Wells @Maxmusmonster @Oldbass47 @Napalm_LT @xeronima @JockeP22 @beachboy6658

Fellas, please note Jammy's advice above. There is an entry lane for the pits, which peels off the circuit immediately before the pit entry itself. You can smash through the cones with no penalty (although, they won't be there any more once a couple of cars have gone through, of course.) I suggest we all use that entry. This will allow people who are following close behind to take up a wider line more easily, and avoid an accident. I have used that entry right in the middle of a large AI pack (at 100 aggression :) ) and they all avoided hitting me.

I think that it will be worth while giving verbal advice of your intention to pit, where possible anyway, and, just to be safe, if there is someone very close behind you, you could let them slip by on the straight following "Fake Spoon" without losing a great deal of time, thereby removing any possibility of them getting too intimate with your rear end.

On the subject of manual pitstops, Mario, I would rather not impose that on anyone without giving us all a chance to get fully used to them. I have to say, I haven't had any issues with my chauffeur in the pit lane.

Anyway, a slightly more general thing... seven days ago my house had it's old worn out, falling to pieces (literally) roof on it. That has all gone, new felt and battens are in place, and around 35% of the tiles have been laid, all by my son-in-law and I, and neither of us ever has been a roofer. I'm very happy about the situation, but good grief, I am short of practice! So, I think I might still have the keys to the Jag for Spa, tee he he.


And, the Sakkito meeting will be set one week after the one last week (seemed reasonable) at 7th September 2021, 1:00pm start. Qualifying will be overcast, but the short race will be clear throughout. The longer race will start overcast, move to dark cloud, light cloud, and finish lovely and clear.
 
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