- 3,277
- Whitehaven Cumbria Englan
- johnwells69
Get well soon Napalm.
VGTA Handicap Championship. Mondays, 8:00pm GMT, from 10th Jan 2022.PS4
- Thread starter Zolon32
- 364 comments
- 20,672 views
- 7,113
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Shame you wont be racing today Napalm, but your health is more important. Get yourself well and see you at Dubai! 
EDIT - @Zolon32 My ETA home today will be very, very close to 8 PM so no practise today for me, and I fear I can even be a bit late. So, if I'm not online for the first race I ask you nevertheless send me an invite, I'll join when possible.
EDIT2 - @Napalm_LT after I join the lobby I can do some streaming of what's happening (either as spectator or player) so if you want to keep up with the racing to help you pass the time, just tune in to my YT channel
EDIT - @Zolon32 My ETA home today will be very, very close to 8 PM so no practise today for me, and I fear I can even be a bit late. So, if I'm not online for the first race I ask you nevertheless send me an invite, I'll join when possible.
EDIT2 - @Napalm_LT after I join the lobby I can do some streaming of what's happening (either as spectator or player) so if you want to keep up with the racing to help you pass the time, just tune in to my YT channel
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- United Kingdom
@Zolon32 @half_sourly I made a very bad mistake in race 1 at the last chicane which ruined @jammy21 race (at least the start, he caught places up but may have had damage?) I know it's not much compensation but please can you give him my points for that race (if you think that would be appropriate)? I don't think I hit anyone else and don't have a replay but let me know if I caused anyone else issues and I'm very sorry about that.
The car felt completely different in that first race from the practice, braking was completely off. No excuses but it is really tough in a pack when the feel of the car is suddenly unfamiliar.
On a more positive note, amazing racing by everyone. @xeronima sorry to see you go on race 2, was it a kerb that caught you out? They're bloody lethal on this track. You should have had that podium
The car felt completely different in that first race from the practice, braking was completely off. No excuses but it is really tough in a pack when the feel of the car is suddenly unfamiliar.
On a more positive note, amazing racing by everyone. @xeronima sorry to see you go on race 2, was it a kerb that caught you out? They're bloody lethal on this track. You should have had that podium
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- half_sourly
Results from Spa:
Race 1:
Race 2:
Standings and next cars:
Race 1:
Race 2:
Standings and next cars:
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- 7,113
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
2x 2nd place was nice but a win would be better! 
I dont remember much of what happened in race 1, I think I did my race without much trouble.Congrats to raeggee for that win, totally deserved.
Race 2 was interesting, basically I spent 18 laps chasing @jammy21 but to no avail. I think we were pretty even but his initial advantage was never lost (fluctuated a bit but nothing much). Towards the end xeronima made the undercut on me so I was about to conform myself with 3rd, but then he had a big moment and I guess he totalled the car so I got 2nd place back.
This was a very intense race for me, that chase was fun, I hope jammy had fun too. Funny that the Nissans made a 1-2 at Spa, I guess the lack of speed was compensated by the car's predictability.
Here's the link to my stream, if anyone's interested in checking or remembering any parts of it.
EDIT - @half_sourly my stream shows a different finishing order at the end of race 1. You can see my screen at about 18:40 into the video and the finishing order is
1 - raeggee 👍
2 - FLAT_TWELVE 👍
3 - half_sourly 👍
4 - Zolon32 (you have Oldbass)
5 - Pantheons (you have IfandOr)
6 - Don_Mejillone (you have jam_my21)
7 - jam_my21 (you have Zolon32)
8 - JockeP22 (you have Don_Mejillone)
9 - xeronima (you have Pantheons)
10 - Maximusmonster (you have JopckeP22)
(I didn't check past 10th place so can't tell who was there)
Race 2 both your results and what my screen shows is the same.
I dont remember much of what happened in race 1, I think I did my race without much trouble.Congrats to raeggee for that win, totally deserved.
Race 2 was interesting, basically I spent 18 laps chasing @jammy21 but to no avail. I think we were pretty even but his initial advantage was never lost (fluctuated a bit but nothing much). Towards the end xeronima made the undercut on me so I was about to conform myself with 3rd, but then he had a big moment and I guess he totalled the car so I got 2nd place back.
This was a very intense race for me, that chase was fun, I hope jammy had fun too. Funny that the Nissans made a 1-2 at Spa, I guess the lack of speed was compensated by the car's predictability.
Here's the link to my stream, if anyone's interested in checking or remembering any parts of it.
EDIT - @half_sourly my stream shows a different finishing order at the end of race 1. You can see my screen at about 18:40 into the video and the finishing order is
1 - raeggee 👍
2 - FLAT_TWELVE 👍
3 - half_sourly 👍
4 - Zolon32 (you have Oldbass)
5 - Pantheons (you have IfandOr)
6 - Don_Mejillone (you have jam_my21)
7 - jam_my21 (you have Zolon32)
8 - JockeP22 (you have Don_Mejillone)
9 - xeronima (you have Pantheons)
10 - Maximusmonster (you have JopckeP22)
(I didn't check past 10th place so can't tell who was there)
Race 2 both your results and what my screen shows is the same.
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- half_sourly
Yeah inside curb on the downhill double left hander. Wouldn't have made it back to the pit and back on track before the race was done.@Zolon32 @half_sourly I made a very bad mistake in race 1 at the last chicane which ruined @jammy21 race (at least the start, he caught places up but may have had damage?) I know it's not much compensation but please can you give him my points for that race (if you think that would be appropriate)? I don't think I hit anyone else and don't have a replay but let me know if I caused anyone else issues and I'm very sorry about that.
The car felt completely different in that first race from the practice, braking was completely off. No excuses but it is really tough in a pack when the feel of the car is suddenly unfamiliar.
On a more positive note, amazing racing by everyone. @xeronima sorry to see you go on race 2, was it a kerb that caught you out? They're bloody lethal on this track. You should have had that podium
right now I'm a no show as long as we've got damage on. Can't be bothered to put in the time and f#$% it up that bad on lap 16 again. I might cool off by next week who knows. But definitely did a toto move with my headset. Have fun
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- half_sourly
Coming off at Radillon and getting enough damage to pull the car so far right I could barely stay on the tarmac wasn't fun either (not that I'm fighting for podiums, so less leaderboard damage than you, Xero). Took me about 4 or 5 minutes to get back to the pits, then a pitstop of probably 60 sec (forgot to check; was breathing deeply from my glass of whisky and counting to ten).
Damage on seems to have reduced the amount of GT Sport-style domino driving (I've not been shunted off this series, believe it or not), but the downside is it can completely wreck an otherwise reasonable race, especially at a long track like Spa (or Dubai, or Fuji).
Damage on seems to have reduced the amount of GT Sport-style domino driving (I've not been shunted off this series, believe it or not), but the downside is it can completely wreck an otherwise reasonable race, especially at a long track like Spa (or Dubai, or Fuji).
- 1,861
- England
- Zolon32
I'm sorry Salty, but I can't sanction that, although I do appreciate the sentiment. Unfortunately, if we started down that road there would be questions about almost every incident on every circuit, and it would soon look like the VGTA Championship was being run by the FIA, such a mess it would be. Don't worry too much about Jammy's points tally, he seems to be able to take care of it pretty well himself
Ah... damage... I think you hit the nail on the head with both your points Half. My intention when introducing it was to try and reduce the amount of "Rubbing is racing" mentality, and tips and taps, which I think it has done. However, destroying ones vehicle can put a real downer on a race.
Unfortunately, I don't think that the full positive effect comes into play immediately, or even very quickly. I smashed my cars up so badly at Silverstone that I had to borrow a Jag for Sakkito. However, since Silverstone in those four races haven't had another major shunt. Interestingly I had many, many major smashes in my practice for Spa, but during the races last night the knowledge of what they did to my chances made me take greater care, especially at Eau Rouge/Raidillon(?).
It's my hope that people will stick with it, and that we will all soon begin to complete each evening's racing without major incident, or at least that major incidents become a very rare thing.
I have to say, that racing with this particular group always has been rather clean anyway...
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Cheers Zo, and again apologies Jammy.
Its a shame that Napalm missed it and is not up there in the standings, hope you feel better in time for Dubai. Approaching the half way point of the season and its shaping up to an exciting battle between Jammy and Mario for the yellow livery.
Hope to see you there next week Xero, Dubai isn't as cruel as Spa in my experience...at least there's no blind, uphill, cambered chicanes with deadly kerbs baring their teeth at us 😬
Its a shame that Napalm missed it and is not up there in the standings, hope you feel better in time for Dubai. Approaching the half way point of the season and its shaping up to an exciting battle between Jammy and Mario for the yellow livery.
Hope to see you there next week Xero, Dubai isn't as cruel as Spa in my experience...at least there's no blind, uphill, cambered chicanes with deadly kerbs baring their teeth at us 😬
- 6,376
- Shropshire
- IfAndOr
Quick report.
Race 1: After a good qualification I crashed fairly early on and it was race over really. I tried to carry on but it was swerving across the track making me a hazard*. So the next few laps I tried pitting using various strategies (while keeping out of everyone's way).
Race 2: Better, no damage in this one. Gained a few spots and lost a few spots here and there. And got a good lap time!
* Which is my main concern with Pcars "performance impacting damage" implementation. If it just slowed you down (speed, cornering) it would be fine - you could choose whether to pit or not. But with a weaving car you often have little option.
@JockeP22 how do you manage on controller if your car is damaged? I'd imagine it's very tricky to try and keep it straight.
(It's that "correlation does not imply causation")
(A bit of passion about your driving is a good thing. But don't let it get you too frustrated.)
Race 1: After a good qualification I crashed fairly early on and it was race over really. I tried to carry on but it was swerving across the track making me a hazard*. So the next few laps I tried pitting using various strategies (while keeping out of everyone's way).
Race 2: Better, no damage in this one. Gained a few spots and lost a few spots here and there. And got a good lap time!
* Which is my main concern with Pcars "performance impacting damage" implementation. If it just slowed you down (speed, cornering) it would be fine - you could choose whether to pit or not. But with a weaving car you often have little option.
@JockeP22 how do you manage on controller if your car is damaged? I'd imagine it's very tricky to try and keep it straight.
...or Bannochbrae! It's quite narrow and the walls there are very close (and very hard). From past experience I'd perhaps consider using just visual damage there at least @Zolon32? It might save a few headaches.
Plenty of time, we've only had 3 races.
(It's that "correlation does not imply causation")
I do hope so, it'd be a shame if you didn't. 👍 It's usually hot at Dubai, it'll warm you up again
(A bit of passion about your driving is a good thing. But don't let it get you too frustrated.)
- 3,377
- Helsinki
- jam_my21/GTP_Ja*
@Saltyjoe90 I didn't get any damage on that race #1 incident luckily (maybe mentally I did). There was also @Don Mejillone who got hit from you.
Race #1 end badly as we get glued with @Oldbass47 and we both fly to grass on last lap at the end.
Race #2 I got very good starting position (2nd) which help a lot to get good result as race #1 ended badly.
Sorry little contact @Don Mejillone when I pass you for the lead.
@Hun200kmh Yes race got my bloodpressure little bit higher that usually when I noticed that you were 2nd and started to gain on me. You kept me alert whole race to keep distance between us so that you didn't get too close. I did one mistake and you got quite close - 1,5s or so but I managed gain distant back to 3-5s. I enjoyed that.
Race #1 end badly as we get glued with @Oldbass47 and we both fly to grass on last lap at the end.
Race #2 I got very good starting position (2nd) which help a lot to get good result as race #1 ended badly.
Sorry little contact @Don Mejillone when I pass you for the lead.
@Hun200kmh Yes race got my bloodpressure little bit higher that usually when I noticed that you were 2nd and started to gain on me. You kept me alert whole race to keep distance between us so that you didn't get too close. I did one mistake and you got quite close - 1,5s or so but I managed gain distant back to 3-5s. I enjoyed that.
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- 1,861
- England
- Zolon32
Good point Paul. Visual damage only at Bannochbrae.or Bannochbrae! It's quite narrow and the walls there are very close (and very hard). From past experience I'd perhaps consider using just visual damage there at least @Zolon32? It might save a few headaches.
In fact... @jammy21 @Napalm_LT @Hun200kmh @xeronima @Saltyjoe90 @Pantheons @JockeP22 @half_sourly @beachboy6658 @richroo @Maxmusmonster @Don Mejillone @Oldbass47 I really don't want anyone to turn up for these races with dread that the whole thing isn't worthwhile because some minor mistake by them, or someone else, can end up destroying their evening's entertainment by effectively taking them out of the race. I love having damage on, I believe that it does lead to fewer incidents, and I like the fact that, even a person who is a minute ahead of me has to keep his wits about him, or that minute could well be lost. With damage on, a race isn't over until it is over.
However, if you do have strong feelings either way, please do let it be known. You can do this by responding on the thread, or PM to me, if you would like a degree of anonymity.
And, by the way, WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T DECELLERATE THROUGH THE SECOND LEFT HANDER AT DUBAI IN THE PORSCHE! Or it's into the wall for you.
Mario, can you let me know what Raeggee's thought are on damage please.
Cheers, GirlyPig. (That's what Zo means in Danish, so I'm told.)
- 7,113
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- FLAT_TWELVE
@Zolon32, talked to raeggee (not that I needed, we discussed this previously, but in any case he might have changed his mind in the meantime). We both prefer that damage remains ON.
That said, I'd like to add my own reasoning. I understand damage can be very frustrating, I had a front row seat for xeronima's misfortune in lap 15 at Spa (1:07:15 into my video) so I can completely understand and sympathise with his grief. And I'll even say that damage can be very unjust to you especially if it comes through no fault or error of your own (some pile up in corner one that catches you, someone slamming into the back of your car under braking, etc).
However ... even this happens in real racing too (remember Bottas taking out both Red Bulls in Hungary this year?). As does the unprovoked slight mistake that ends in tears when you are leading and the race is yours (remember THIS? or THIS?)
So, does this take away the fun? I don't think so, in fact I think it adds some depth, immersion and realism to the way we mentally approach these races. And the standards of driving throughout the field went from great (which they already were in this group) to excellent. And I guess that in the course of a full championship we will all have our bits of fortune and misfortune, so hopefully it'll be mostly even at the end.
Now, about Bannochbrae, I was formerly of the opinion that an exception should be made for that race, changing damage to "Visual Only". And I specifically asked raeggee today about it. His reply was that even in Bannochbrae damage should be kept on. And I have to say that I agree. I have slim hope of surviving a full Bannochbrae race without suffering damage and spending a good portion of time in the pits (more than once, probably). Then again, I think this applies to all, which might cause some funny moments of crowded pits. But if you approach that race as a rally of old days, taking good care of your car and taking great care with your driving, that can really make a difference there, and reward the cautious over the optimistic, so why shouldn't it happen that way?
Again, @Zolon32 , it is your call and whatever you decide is fine, this championship is great fun regardless of chosen damage setting. 👍
That said, I'd like to add my own reasoning. I understand damage can be very frustrating, I had a front row seat for xeronima's misfortune in lap 15 at Spa (1:07:15 into my video) so I can completely understand and sympathise with his grief. And I'll even say that damage can be very unjust to you especially if it comes through no fault or error of your own (some pile up in corner one that catches you, someone slamming into the back of your car under braking, etc).
However ... even this happens in real racing too (remember Bottas taking out both Red Bulls in Hungary this year?). As does the unprovoked slight mistake that ends in tears when you are leading and the race is yours (remember THIS? or THIS?)
So, does this take away the fun? I don't think so, in fact I think it adds some depth, immersion and realism to the way we mentally approach these races. And the standards of driving throughout the field went from great (which they already were in this group) to excellent. And I guess that in the course of a full championship we will all have our bits of fortune and misfortune, so hopefully it'll be mostly even at the end.
Now, about Bannochbrae, I was formerly of the opinion that an exception should be made for that race, changing damage to "Visual Only". And I specifically asked raeggee today about it. His reply was that even in Bannochbrae damage should be kept on. And I have to say that I agree. I have slim hope of surviving a full Bannochbrae race without suffering damage and spending a good portion of time in the pits (more than once, probably). Then again, I think this applies to all, which might cause some funny moments of crowded pits. But if you approach that race as a rally of old days, taking good care of your car and taking great care with your driving, that can really make a difference there, and reward the cautious over the optimistic, so why shouldn't it happen that way?
Again, @Zolon32 , it is your call and whatever you decide is fine, this championship is great fun regardless of chosen damage setting. 👍
- 6,376
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- IfAndOr
In my head I'm trying to work out where that is. I think you mean the one before the tightening right hander? I must give it a try later, girlypig!
Damage? Hmm well, I'm slightly different to Mario (above). I suppose my thoughts are in my previous post. In that it's not having the damage per se, it can add more realism, it's the way it's represented in game (wonky cars). They can sometimes add to further problems (and damage) for those following, which can take away some fun. I usually think that a crash with the resulting loss of time and places is often enough to try and keep you on the tarmac. If you're going to crash towards the end of a race you're still going to crash damage or not.
Visual damage with its cracked windows, crumpled bonnets obscuring the view, broken headlights etc can have an impact. Full damage is also a possibility - no wonky cars, they just don't move!
As you say this is a 'clean as they are able to be' group of guys. Perhaps more than the damage I'm thinking your longer race 2 format - allowing more time to gain places - has improved the natural rush to try and get ahead, thus reducing incidents.
Now I realise I haven't actually said Yes or No to damage, just my overall thoughts. And that's because, like Mario, I'm absolutely fine going along with whatever. Although obviously I have some investment in the Monday races this is your show, I'm quite enjoying taking the back seat for awhile.
(Although I'm still working away at planning future series :-)
(And Bannocbrae? I'll just say it's a very long way around on that narrow track back to the pits if you crash on the first couple of corners. Which has happened on a couple of occasions.)
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- half_sourly
- 1,850
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- half_sourly
- 6,376
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- IfAndOr
Oh yes I forgot to mention, Rich sends his apologies. He was unavoidably detained. And no not by the police.
His internet shed hasn't got internet at the moment either, which is a problem that needs sorting.
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- Pantheons
Im more than happy to go with the general consensus, and ill work with whatever im given. But if I had to pick, id probably say keep damage on, as I (probably stupidly) like the added sense of 'realism' (if it can be called realism), but not at the expense of others not turning up. If you'd have asked me if I want forced interior view at night in the rain...on ice, I might have said "you can have too much realism"
Whatever you do @Zolon32 its fine with me, im just appreciative someones dedicating their time to organising it.
Whatever you do @Zolon32 its fine with me, im just appreciative someones dedicating their time to organising it.
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- FLAT_TWELVE
The way I see it and with two "ex aequo" situations both for last and for penultimate average finish, this could also be going the way of having 2 Jaguars (Beachboy and Rich), 2 Mustangs (Max and Oldbass) and 1 Ferrari (Don-Mejillone) but lets see what the creator of these confounded (
) rules decides.
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- 1,850
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- half_sourly
Indeed. My limited if-statements do not account for draws, so the second Jaguar appears at the expense of the Mustang.
Over to Zolon.
Over to Zolon.
- 1,861
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- Zolon32
@IfAndOr @half_sourly @Pantheons @JockeP22 @Napalm_LT @Oldbass47 @Hun200kmh @Saltyjoe90 @richroo @jammy21 @Don Mejillone @John Wells @Maxmusmonster @xeronima
Okay gents, my anxious head-scratching and room pacing over the damage issue came to an end once I had digested and considered the point Mario made about rewarding caution over optimism. I can't put into words what it is that damage brings, for me, to the game, rather I feel that it allows the racing to be less sterile. When a person can push and push and push, in the complete knowledge that even a major shunt will probably effect their race very little, or, in the worst case scenario, cost them a handful of seconds; then that really takes something (that I can't identify
) big and important out of the experience for me.
Therefore, damage stays on, even for Bannach-whatever-it--is. My only advice is, drive like it is really necessary to not have your car flying into a wall. And please, be extremely careful to make your overtakes clean. On the other hand, if you've got a quicker car/driver harassing you, defend your position, of course, but do consider the consequences if you squeeze your attacker too hard at a critical point in that battle.
Half, I think that you have interpreted the car allocation matter in the same way I would in the current circumstances. The two "slowest" drivers get the E-Type (or any other, of course). That removes the Mustang from the reckoning, so the two who are tied for 3rd/4th from bottom have the Ferrari/Porsche/Nissan choice. And that's the full four places filled, so to speak.
And finally... The race at Dubai will be set one week after the Spa meeting. However, encouraged by "Mr WeirdLighting" the time for the race start will be 6:00am, with four weather zones, clear/light cloud/heavy cloud/clear. Time and weather will run at 5X. These settings do actually bring about pleasing affects, without the full "Mr Weird"
See y'all on Monday.
EDIT: Jammy, there is no need for you to push harder, honestly...
Okay gents, my anxious head-scratching and room pacing over the damage issue came to an end once I had digested and considered the point Mario made about rewarding caution over optimism. I can't put into words what it is that damage brings, for me, to the game, rather I feel that it allows the racing to be less sterile. When a person can push and push and push, in the complete knowledge that even a major shunt will probably effect their race very little, or, in the worst case scenario, cost them a handful of seconds; then that really takes something (that I can't identify
) big and important out of the experience for me.Therefore, damage stays on, even for Bannach-whatever-it--is. My only advice is, drive like it is really necessary to not have your car flying into a wall. And please, be extremely careful to make your overtakes clean. On the other hand, if you've got a quicker car/driver harassing you, defend your position, of course, but do consider the consequences if you squeeze your attacker too hard at a critical point in that battle.
Half, I think that you have interpreted the car allocation matter in the same way I would in the current circumstances. The two "slowest" drivers get the E-Type (or any other, of course). That removes the Mustang from the reckoning, so the two who are tied for 3rd/4th from bottom have the Ferrari/Porsche/Nissan choice. And that's the full four places filled, so to speak.
And finally... The race at Dubai will be set one week after the Spa meeting. However, encouraged by "Mr WeirdLighting" the time for the race start will be 6:00am, with four weather zones, clear/light cloud/heavy cloud/clear. Time and weather will run at 5X. These settings do actually bring about pleasing affects, without the full "Mr Weird"
See y'all on Monday.
EDIT: Jammy, there is no need for you to push harder, honestly...
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Oh great, so that leaves it free for me to use then?
If you use that I'm going with the "Heavy Chevy", that forgotten VGTA beauty!
Who's this Mr WeirdLighting then, do I know him?
Must be @John Wells , our resident photographer/extreme biker and train tycoon
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Does anyone else experience Dubai as unpredictable?
Just did 15 laps at Dubai in the porsche. What a nightmare! Absolutely 100% unpredictable. If I got the settings right we're driving at 6 am on Sept 20th?
The track conditions was randomly changed every lap and it felt like driving on brown soap.
Then did 5 laps at brannocuescotland. On sep 20 but at 1300. Car was predictable and easy to understand. I might give Dubai a try more. But if tonight's experience represent the racing on Monday I'm staying away, on order to not wreck your racing.
Just did 15 laps at Dubai in the porsche. What a nightmare! Absolutely 100% unpredictable. If I got the settings right we're driving at 6 am on Sept 20th?
The track conditions was randomly changed every lap and it felt like driving on brown soap.
Then did 5 laps at brannocuescotland. On sep 20 but at 1300. Car was predictable and easy to understand. I might give Dubai a try more. But if tonight's experience represent the racing on Monday I'm staying away, on order to not wreck your racing.
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- IfAndOr
Are you sure you're only using x5 acceleration on time and weather @xeronima? It shouldn't change that much, especially over just a lap. At x5 each weather slot (and track conditions) should last for approximately 12 minutes.
You could leave just the weather at sync to race @Zolon32. x5 won't make a lot of difference with your weather changes for Dubai - clear will rotate to clear.
You could leave just the weather at sync to race @Zolon32. x5 won't make a lot of difference with your weather changes for Dubai - clear will rotate to clear.
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