Video evidence of GT5's AI: The good, and the bad.

[RedSuinit]

This is an EVIDENCE thread. Don't just post in here saying, the AI is dumb, or the AI is awesome! If you have actual video evidence of one or the other being true, post it here, and explain the evidence to make your case. I will be posting a whole series of videos demonstrating both the good and the bad, because lets face it, they're both in there.

OH! Hey guys, feel free to put links to replay data on here! You can upload files onto the site, so that they can be downloaded! If you are in GT5, hit export to XMB, then copy that to a flash drive, and send it to me, then I will make a video of it, and put it in this thread!

Video evidence 1:

I apologize for the background noise, my wife was listening to music on the computer. I suggest you just mute it and watch.



As you can see, in this instance the AI shows a lot of competence when it comes to properly racing the human player. The green Cappacino kept pace with me since we were in the same car, and as you can see by the ending, I was pushing the car pretty hard.

Video evidence 2:



Here you can see some more examples of good AI behavior. There are also some WTF moments too, lol!

Here is another video, posted by user Zer0 in another thread.



It shows some REALLY good examples of the AI improvement.

Another video posted by CoolColJ



It looks like the AI pitted him, but it also look like he may have come into the AI. What do you think?

Some more excellent videos from CoolColJ:









A video posted by Paytonlow:



Does a good job showing some serious weak-points of the AI, but some comments should be taken with a grain of salt. This is a B-Spec video of the player controlled Bob. So we don't know if the pace up command was mashed or if proper instructions were given.

 

[imaROBOT_]

The only thing I saw was some really bad understeer.

I don't think that reply really shows much AI wise. The video in the other AI debunked thread is a much better example of the AI.

 

[RedSuinit]

The only thing I saw was some really bad understeer.

I don't think that reply really shows much AI wise. The video in the other AI debunked thread is a much better example of the AI.

Wow, there is so much denial in this statement it's not even funny. So the AI that stayed to the outside of me was just under-steering even though the AI right behind us was on the right line? Looks like I'll have to reopen that same replay and show you that when I wasn't next to him he was on the correct line. Some people are just unbelievable.

EDIT: Just watched the video again and you can even see him make a small correction to his line in the first left hand turn when he notices I am there at 2:12 - 2:14.

 

[thephenom32]

Don't have video, but I was doing a race on the Ring. I spun out, hit the guard rail, and bounced back to the left side of the relatively tight track. As I was spinning, I was expecting to get nailed from behind, but it never happened. By the time my car was facing the right way again, I noticed the car actually go around me on the right side of the track.

 

[Hig-GT]

I liked watching the red car (not sure what it was, Daihatsu?) at around 1.20. It was racing alongside you, all of the time it gave you plenty of room but raced in such a way that it would be able to get the inside line against you. It also cut the corner over the curbs to give you room incase you dove into the corner. I think sometimes you need to be a proper racer at heart to really see how the AI races. Yes once or twice you will catch it out, but I have seen some fantastic races in B-Spec further down the field behind my car!

I liked the racing there with that green cappacino, he really pushed you and wouldn't allow you to take the racing line, very good example thank you for posting that!

 

[itstheDRE4M]

What I saw was you Cut Inside at 2:13 and it pushed the AI wide.. therefore he couldn't take the inside line on that turn.

I've had AI Drivers spin me out.. slam on the brakes way early and me ram them..

B-Spec BOB is the worst of all for me. He's got to have at least 200hp more than the cars on the track to win. I'd love to see a equally matched car win with B-Spec Bob

 

[RzB]

My bob won the Tsukuba race in a stock dome zero beating two other dome zero's I had to push him to keep his pace up but it was a hard fought battle...(classic series) Only time I though my bob would lose but he didn't.

 

[RedSuinit]

B-Spec BOB is the worst of all for me. He's got to have at least 200hp more than the cars on the track to win. I'd love to see a equally matched car win with B-Spec Bob

Done it. Stock Tom's Supra in the Super GT race. I have a thread about it. It was close and intense, and my B-Spec Bob took the cake. It wasn't easy, but he did.

What I saw was you Cut Inside at 2:13 and it pushed the AI wide.. therefore he couldn't take the inside line on that turn.

I've had AI Drivers spin me out.. slam on the brakes way early and me ram them..

Yet, he didn't hit me, thank you for accentuating my point!

 

[Hig-GT]

Yet, he didn't hit me, thank you for accentuating my point!

Nice

 

[imaROBOT_]

Wow, there is so much denial in this statement it's not even funny. So the AI that stayed to the outside of me was just under-steering even though the AI right behind us was on the right line? Looks like I'll have to reopen that same replay and show you that when I wasn't next to him he was on the correct line. Some people are just unbelievable.

EDIT: Just watched the video again and you can even see him make a small correction to his line in the first left hand turn when he notices I am there at 2:12 - 2:14.

Wow, quick to jump to conclusions are we?

All I was trying to point out was that your car looked to have terrible understeer and that I've seen better videos (as the one I listed) that show how good GT5 AI is.

Problem with this forum is everyone is jumping on each other if they don't like their opinion. I actually agree with you on GT5 AI from your other posts I've read, if I'm in denial then you are too.

 

[RedSuinit]

Wow, quick to jump to conclusions are we?

All I was trying to point out was that your car looked to have terrible understeer and that I've seen better videos (as the one I listed) that show how good GT5 AI is.

Problem with this forum is everyone is jumping on each other if they don't like their opinion. I actually agree with you on GT5 AI from your other posts I've read, if I'm in denial then you are too.

Then I apologize. You should have stated that it looked like my car was under-steering, instead of just saying " The only thing I saw was some really bad understeer." Sorry man, I do feel rather silly right now though, because I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that the AI car was under-steering and that's why it was on the outside of me. The point of this video is to show the AI intelligence while the player vehicle was in motion, the debunked thread was simply to show that the AI can and will avoid a still object, and that the video being touted around the internet was a setup fraudulent comparison of the two games.

 

[imaROBOT_]

Then I apologize. You should have stated that it looked like my car was under-steering, instead of just saying " The only thing I saw was some really bad understeer." Sorry man, I do feel rather silly right now though, because I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that the AI car was under-steering and that's why it was on the outside of me. The point of this video is to show the AI intelligence while the player vehicle was in motion, the debunked thread was simply to show that the AI can and will avoid a still object, and that the video being touted around the internet was a setup fraudulent comparison of the two games.

Yeah I saw that video of Forza "owning" GT5 and could see right away it was a setup. The only problem I have with the AI is when they take me out in a corner, but that's what it's like on the real track. Doesn't stop me from cursing them haha.

I just reread my post and can see where you got the idea from . My bad.

 

[RedSuinit]

Yeah I saw that video of Forza "owning" GT5 and could see right away it was a setup.

I just reread my post and can see where you got the idea from . My bad.

It's all good, all good. I just really want this thread to be a discussion of GT5's AI with actual footage. That way we can really break into what causes a lot of the issues that people seem to face. Sorry that I jumped on you like that though.

 

[Abriael]

It's really simple. GT5's AI is much more reactive to the environment than what some people say.

Sometimes it'll manage to avoid, sometimes it'll fail. Pretty much like in every racing game out there.
I think that some just love to use hyperbole when criticize something (IE: "most horrible that I've ever seen!" and stuff like that).
It's the internets.

 

[Goudvis]

I do not have a problem with the AI. Even when i swerve around, they try to avoid me. I think they're very good.

The only thing is that they do not go around me after i've gone sideways. They keep driving into me like a loony.

 

[RWB1213]

OK, so good stuff in the video. It appears autumn mini has been coded with several paths through what are argueably the tightest series of corners in the game. It also appears that the "decision" processing was clean, that is we didn't see an AI car drift into the human player. Your side-by-side example with an AI correction is nice. Later in the race I think we saw an AI car get way wide and kick up some dirt.

I did notice that most of your overtaking was on the outside. I know that may have been how the cars/track/tune/your style worked out. I'm interested in seeing another version where passing is more frequently initiated on the inside. I think we'll see different results, I could be wrong, but I always seem to have more issues when I go to the inside. I'm gonna give this a try tonight and post a vid if I get a chance.

Kudos for driving smoothly. I suspect lots of folks call foul on the AI while they are driving out of control all over the track.

 

[Biggles]

It's certainly an example of how the AI is improved over GT5P, not to mention GT4.

I also notice that you drive around the AI on the outside. That is what I am forced to do also, as it is the only way to safely maneuver past the AI without contact. If you go to the inside, even if you are ahead, they will automatically bump you. Good AI would look for an opportunity to out accelerate you on the exit of the turn, rather than just plowing into you.

I think the incident that really sticks in my mind was going into a hairpin with a Ferrari 512B. By chance (well, programming really!), there was a 512 in front of me & one behind. The 512 in front braked unexpectedly early, forcing me to brake to avoid rear-ending it. I then promptly got rear-ended by the 512 behind me & shunted into the one in front. That is the kind of thing that is very discouraging.

 

[RedSuinit]

It's certainly an example of how the AI is improved over GT5P, not to mention GT4.

I also notice that you drive around the AI on the outside. That is what I am forced to do also, as it is the only way to safely maneuver past the AI without contact. If you go to the inside, even if you are ahead, they will automatically bump you. Good AI would look for an opportunity to out accelerate you on the exit of the turn, rather than just plowing into you.

I think the incident that really sticks in my mind was going into a hairpin with a Ferrari 512B. By chance (well, programming really!), there was a 512 in front of me & one behind. The 512 in front braked unexpectedly early, forcing me to brake to avoid rear-ending it. I then promptly got rear-ended by the 512 behind me & shunted into the one in front. That is the kind of thing that is very discouraging.

Isn't taking a proper outside line when the opposing vehicle is on the inside proper racing procedure? The only time you should ever overtake on the inside is when you have a clear advantage coming into the corner. As in you are drafting another car down a straightaway, and are able to get your car next to his on the inside before reaching the corner, or the other player brakes WAY early and you can late brake past them without screaming through their line as they are taking it. Or when they make a mistake going into a corner and go wide, the you can take over on the inside. The only problem with the last one is that the AI doesn't make a ton of mistakes, which makes overtaking the difficult.

As for the 512BB yeah that kind of stuff is discouraging, but those types of experience are the exception for me. They happen far less often than what I have posted above. I would love to see some footage of instances like these in this thread in order to promote some really good discussion.

 

[Luminis]

Isn't taking a proper outside line when the opposing vehicle is on the inside proper racing procedure? The only time you should ever overtake on the inside is when you have a clear advantage coming into the corner. As in you are drafting another car down a straightaway, and are able to get your car next to his on the inside before reaching the corner, or the other player brakes WAY early and you can late brake past them without screaming through their line as they are taking it.

Not to interfere on the actual discussion, but braking way early is what the AI does best, I guess that's why so many people always talk about overtaking the AI on the inside, it really opens itself up to it.

 

[imaROBOT_]

Not to interfere on the actual discussion, but braking way early is what the AI does best, I guess that's why so many people always talk about overtaking the AI on the inside, it really opens itself up to it.

That is one thing I've noticed. They seem to tap the brake really hard early, then go into the corner with proper braking speed.

 

[RedSuinit]

Not to interfere on the actual discussion, but braking way early is what the AI does best, I guess that's why so many people always talk about overtaking the AI on the inside, it really opens itself up to it.

Agreed, but they expect to be able to do it, and that the AI should just change it's line even though you are late braking into their line and end up NEXT to them instead of PAST them. If you can't be past them by braking late, you shouldn't try to overtake with late braking, at least not on the inside.

 

[Vanon]

The problem with AI (IMHO naturally) is the aggressivity (pit maneuver) and some bugs, like the fact that they doesn't change tyres between 2 races in a championship that has different weather condition tracks

 

[Luminis]

Agreed, but they expect to be able to do it, and that the AI should just change it's line even though you are late braking into their line and end up NEXT to them instead of PAST them. If you can't be past them by braking late, you shouldn't try to overtake with late braking, at least not on the inside.

Well, from my experience, you can very easily get past them by late breaking. Well, depending on the car, you don't even have to actually brake that late to take them on the inside.

Personally, I find it quite easy to brake later then them. Granted, you won't take them from a mile away, that way, but if you're quite close anyways, it's very easy to outbreak them.
If you're driving a lightweight, agile car, you can brake later then them, overtake them and be gone from their line again before they even get a chance to turn into you. It's not like the AI is making it very hard for the player to overtake it on the inside, not at all.

Personally, I prefer to just carry more speed through a corner than them and overtake right after the corner, but considering how short some of the races are, it's quite hard to do it that way - especially since the early braking of the AI isn't makin it any easier to do so.

/edit:
By the way, I'm not saying you're wrong about players expecting the AI to just leave it's line for them, it's just that I think the game is actually encouraging players to act that way. Which leads to problems when the AI isn't reacting as expected.

 

[RedSuinit]

The problem with AI (IMHO naturally) is the aggressivity (pit maneuver) and some bugs, like the fact that they doesn't change tyres between 2 races in a championship that has different weather condition tracks

This is so stinking true. The Dreamcar Championship can be very frustrating because of this.

As for the PIT maneuver I really need to see some footage of this. Because the only time I have been personally been spun around by the AI it was normally (although not always) my fault for not being aware of where the AI was on the track. Yet I see a lot of people talk about this. But this is what the thread was created for. A free place for people to provide replay data, or videos of replays, showing what has happened.

OH! Hey guys, feel free to put links to replay data on here! You can upload files onto the site, so that they can be downloaded! If you are in GT5, hit export to XMB, then copy that to a flash drive, and send it to me, then I will make a video of it, and put it in this thread!

 

[CoolColJ]

GT5's AI at level 40 is awesome 👍

 

[RedSuinit]

GT5's AI at level 40 is awesome 👍

 

[CoolColJ]

Did you mean to post a video of an online race? There is no AI there.

That's the point, look at how the average human drives online.
If all the other cars I was racing against were GT5's AI would you slag or praise it?

Most make my B-Spec drivers look good...

 

[RedSuinit]

That's the point, look at how the average human drives online.
If all the other cars I was racing against were GT5's AI would you slag or praise it?

Most make my B-Spec drivers look good...

No doubt you would hear about how much the AI was bumping into you from the side, and all the ramming that was happening. However I guarantee that you are going to get some people in here claiming that GT5's AI drives just like the poor drivers in that video. However, anyone thinking about saying that, I plead with you to post some video footage to back it up, or send me the replay file, and I will post it.

 

[RWB1213]

Agreed, but they expect to be able to do it, and that the AI should just change it's line even though you are late braking into their line and end up NEXT to them instead of PAST them. If you can't be past them by braking late, you shouldn't try to overtake with late braking, at least not on the inside.

This might be my biggest issue. When I'm racing humans (friends-clean), or the AI in Forza, if I dive in on any of them, they concede the inside and immediately adjust to try and hold their position side-by-side. In GT5, unless as you said, you are past them, they tend to get into you, even when you stay in tight. I wonder at what point (when you are pulling up next to them) does the AI make the decision to stay outside? It's not door to door, maybe a fender ahead? I'm gonna run a few tests tonight.

Perhaps the reason I'm most displeased with the AI is because they frequently leave the inside door open, and then close it when I think I have already established position especially on the sharper turns. The first section of the the Ring is a prime example.

 

[RedSuinit]

This might be my biggest issue. When I'm racing humans (friends-clean), or the AI in Forza, if I dive in on any of them, they concede the inside and immediately adjust to try and hold their position side-by-side. In GT5, unless as you said, you are past them, they tend to get into you, even when you stay in tight. I wonder at what point (when you are pulling up next to them) does the AI make the decision to stay outside? It's not door to door, maybe a fender ahead? I'm gonna run a few tests tonight.

Perhaps the reason I'm most displeased with the AI is because they frequently leave the inside door open, and then close it when I think I have already established position especially on the sharper turns. The first section of the the Ring is a prime example.

I don't know if there are any official rulings on overtakes like this in the real world. I have had to abandon my proper racing line multiple times because someone will brake into the inside line, and instead of hitting them for it, and making them pay for a careless overtake, I let them have the line, and do my best to hold the outside. Of course as soon as they do that once, I just ride the inside and don't give them a chance to do it again.