Video evidence of GT5's AI: The good, and the bad.

  • Thread starter Thread starter RedSuinit
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CoolColJ
Me getting pitted by the AI just then :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOt-xjn0ohI
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Lol how can you blame AI for this. You failed to make proper pass on him and should have been aware where he is going in the first place.

This s similar to Vettel, Webber crash in Turkish GP. Here is the video highlights from f1.com. Look at 2min when Vettel tries to make a move.



Both drivers think it was other guys mistake but it is obvious even after getting instruction from his engineer to use full engine power Vettel failed to make a clean pass. Webber was not to blame for this.

At the worst it is racing incident, a person changes his line and so on but putting blame on other person is wrong and here AI din't do much wrong at all
 
gtracedriver
This s similar to Vettel, Webber crash in Turkish GP. Here is the video highlights from f1.com. Look at 2min when Vettel tries to make a move.
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No its not.... one is a formula 1 car in which 99.9% of attention must be paid to whats directly infront of you..

the other is a slow arsed put put mobile in which left ample time for the ai to react... in the real world they wouldnt just collide.... it was a horrible pass and a d**k move.... but it wouldnt have resulted in car#2 just continuing to plow into him.

what gt5 ai is lacking is a general sense of proximity
 
^^
In the video he was trying to pass AI by going towards right and had not compleltely overtaken. AI on the other hand was probably going towards racing line but it was bad judgment from the user
 
Lol how can you blame AI for this. You failed to make proper pass on him and should have been aware where he is going in the first place.
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LOL?

What's "funny" about that? You're impugning CoolCol's driving with no justification whatsoever. I'm sure everybody who's been playing GT5 has encountered a similar situation numerous times.

CoolCol is substantially in front of the AI car. He did move to the right earlier, but that is not the cause of the contact. He is traveling straight when he is hit by the AI car which suddenly starts moving to the left.

In real life the following car would be able to see the car in front & would have an obligation to stay clear. Within the game, the situation is made worse by the fact that CoolCol has little or no possibility of seeing the following car. The AI car starts moving to the left, presumably in order to take up the racing line, AS IF COOLCOL's CAR IS NOT THERE.

100% an example of this:

what gt5 ai is lacking is a general sense of proximity
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The AI in the game should, if anything, be MORE conscious of proximity in order to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision of the player in the game & to help promote contact-free racing. That is the crux of the problem & the reason racing against the GT5 AI - particularly in a close situation with a number of cars around - is so unsatisfying.
 
Wow, no wonder some of you think the AI is fine. How you can spin that to be CoolColj's fault is laughable.

So the player should know that the AI can't see that there is a car between it and the racing line and pre-emptively drive accordingly, lmao.

CoolColj makes a move to pass the light blue car, there is plenty of room between him and the white AI car when CoolColj straightens out. At this point it is the AI's job to avoid contact with CoolColj because he is behind. The AI doesn't see CoolColj and barrels into him trying to get to his racing line.

In real races people take all kinds of lines at the 1st turn to avoid other cars. CoolColj is going straight on a line when the AI changes lines and charges to the AI paradise zone. Not what would have happened on a track.
 
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Biggles


LOL?

What's "funny" about that? You're impugning CoolCol's driving with no justification whatsoever. I'm sure everybody who's been playing GT5 has encountered a similar situation numerous times.

CoolCol is substantially in front of the AI car. He did move to the right earlier, but that is not the cause of the contact. He is traveling straight when he is hit by the AI car which suddenly starts moving to the left.

In real life the following car would be able to see the car in front & would have an obligation to stay clear. Within the game, the situation is made worse by the fact that CoolCol has little or no possibility of seeing the following car. The AI car starts moving to the left, presumably in order to take up the racing line, AS IF COOLCOL's CAR IS NOT THERE.

100% an example of this:



The AI in the game should, if anything, be MORE conscious of proximity in order to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision of the player in the game & to help promote contact-free racing. That is the crux of the problem & the reason racing against the GT5 AI - particularly in a close situation with a number of cars around - is so unsatisfying.
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I am impressed there is someone rational here.

Even the OP tried to spin that in GT's favor. Seems to be a lot of apologists in here.

Gtracedriver, Hig-GT, Goudvis and MowTin what kind of kool-aid are you guys drinking?
 
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Biggles


LOL?

What's "funny" about that? You're impugning CoolCol's driving with no justification whatsoever. I'm sure everybody who's been playing GT5 has encountered a similar situation numerous times.

CoolCol is substantially in front of the AI car. He did move to the right earlier, but that is not the cause of the contact. He is traveling straight when he is hit by the AI car which suddenly starts moving to the left.

In real life the following car would be able to see the car in front & would have an obligation to stay clear. Within the game, the situation is made worse by the fact that CoolCol has little or no possibility of seeing the following car. The AI car starts moving to the left, presumably in order to take up the racing line, AS IF COOLCOL's CAR IS NOT THERE.

100% an example of this:



The AI in the game should, if anything, be MORE conscious of proximity in order to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision of the player in the game & to help promote contact-free racing. That is the crux of the problem & the reason racing against the GT5 AI - particularly in a close situation with a number of cars around - is so unsatisfying.
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What AI is doing in most cases it is very simple to predict as AI in any game is not super smart anyways. That incident was easily avoidable. But most people instead blame it on AI as always :lol:
 
gtracedriver
This s similar to Vettel, Webber crash in Turkish GP. Here is the video highlights from f1.com. Look at 2min when Vettel tries to make a move.
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I'm not sure how there could be any ambiguity as to whose fault that crash could have been, Vettel is completely to blame.

In most motorsport I watch a pass is considered complete when the B pillar of the passing car gets ahead, the passed car is then obliged to yeild. In the video the AI clearly sticks it into a corner and spins the player, presumably because the AI just ignores the fact it's stuck to a car and tries to robotically correct it's racing line.
 
In real life it is difficult to predict if you are going wheel to wheel and both should be fair givning little room but it depends some are too aggresive and do not like to yield. Here racing against AI you can easily predict it.
 
gtracedriver
What AI is doing in most cases it is very simple to predict as AI in any game is not super smart anyways. That incident was easily avoidable. But most people instead blame it on AI as always :lol:
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Your making excuses for the AI, plain and simple. Race car drivers would get pitted by the AI because there are plenty who drive more aggressively and you would blame the driver.
 
gtracedriver
In real life it is difficult to predict if you are going wheel to wheel and both should be fair givning little room but it depends some are too aggresive and do not like to yield. Here racing against AI you can easily predict it.
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No one should have to predict what an AI that has been passed on a straight is going to do!
 
warpspeed2slow
No one should have to predict what an AI that has been passed on a straight is going to do!
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No you're right, I mean, no-one has to do that in real life do they! In real life they all have quick messenging systems so everyone knows what the other drivers are planning on doing so they can place their cars out of the way so no collisions happen!

JUST GET ON WITH THE RACE!
 
Hig-GT
No you're right, I mean, no-one has to do that in real life do they! In real life they all have quick messenging systems so everyone knows what the other drivers are planning on doing so they can place their cars out of the way so no collisions happen!

JUST GET ON WITH THE RACE!
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No, it is usually the driver that is behind whose job it is to watch out for the cars in front, unless someone makes a bad pass which did not happen in the video. There is a ton of room before the turn when CoolColj gets into his position from where he is pitted. It is the AI's job to find a workable line at that point. Stop trying to spin this into something else.
 
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ruf-ctr2
And why can the "AI" drive on like nothing happened when the players car spins around?
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In general I think this is coded into the AI of all or most racing games. I even see this in PC racing sims. Whenever there is contact between myself and AI cars 90% of the time I spin, and AI only 10%. This coding could be there to prevent "demolition driving" by human pilots.
 
Biggles
CoolCol does drift over to the right in order to maneuver past the slower car in front, but there's no question that the AI car also cuts to the left. CoolCol is definitely IN FRONT of the AI car, so IRL the other driver would straighten up or back off to avoid the contact. Instead the AI car just plows right into the back of CoolCol's car: definitely the AI car is responsible for the contact. I have no idea why anyone would seek to characterize it any other way.

In addition, IN THE GAME there's no way for CoolCol to SEE the AI car (certainly not visible in side view, & probably not in rear view), which makes it doubly necessary for the AI to be more reactive. This is actually a GREAT EXAMPLE of what is wrong with the AI: it's not nearly reactive enough to the presence of the player's car.
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Sounds like bad teaching here, in racing you don't make a move unless you are sure of your self, he was avoiding the car ahead of him way too early. You must be blind or something, but he encroached on the AI driving line, this is a race and there is no room for bad decisions such as this. Ideally a human player would have seen you and either backed off, or swerved. The AI in GT5 is dumb at points, but that was completely your fault.

You guys seems to think that the driver was not at fault he 100% was, he's trying to avoid a car ahead of him which was more than a few car lengths ahead of him(albeit no reason to, he wasn't fast enough to reach the car ahead anyway). This is a simple case of human driver causing the majority of contact between you and the AI, and therefore the AI doesn't give you room because of whatever weird lapse in programming. Fact is the human driver was ultimately wrong. In fact, why did the human player back off when he felt the contact? No he didn't why? Because he was thinking, why should I back off, he hit me. The problem with the AI is for some reason when your car goes into a spin, it's as if you are no longer present, they will ram into you continuously, that is a flaw in the AI sub routines that doesn't cater for a car spinning out and being left sideways on the road. AI tenacity isn't always high as it should be is another flaw, but the big problem is the human player who makes ill advised moves for no apparent reason. You should be just as aware of your surroundings as you claim you want the AI to be.
 
Biggles
CoolCol does drift over to the right in order to maneuver past the slower car in front, but there's no question that the AI car also cuts to the left. CoolCol is definitely IN FRONT of the AI car, so IRL the other driver would straighten up or back off to avoid the contact. Instead the AI car just plows right into the back of CoolCol's car: definitely the AI car is responsible for the contact. I have no idea why anyone would seek to characterize it any other way.

In addition, IN THE GAME there's no way for CoolCol to SEE the AI car (certainly not visible in side view, & probably not in rear view), which makes it doubly necessary for the AI to be more reactive. This is actually a GREAT EXAMPLE of what is wrong with the AI: it's not nearly reactive enough to the presence of the player's car.
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Agreed. However, you might also notice that there was a Red car to the right of the AI that swerved left and hit him and he was straightening up. I believe that both the AI and the player are to blame. CoolColJ clearly you saved the replay, could you give us the same video again from the AI perspective? This could give us a better chance to analyze what the AI actually did. Please?

Biggles
LOL?

What's "funny" about that? You're impugning CoolCol's driving with no justification whatsoever. I'm sure everybody who's been playing GT5 has encountered a similar situation numerous times.

CoolCol is substantially in front of the AI car. He did move to the right earlier, but that is not the cause of the contact. He is traveling straight when he is hit by the AI car which suddenly starts moving to the left.

In real life the following car would be able to see the car in front & would have an obligation to stay clear. Within the game, the situation is made worse by the fact that CoolCol has little or no possibility of seeing the following car. The AI car starts moving to the left, presumably in order to take up the racing line, AS IF COOLCOL's CAR IS NOT THERE.

100% an example of this:

The AI in the game should, if anything, be MORE conscious of proximity in order to compensate for the lack of peripheral vision of the player in the game & to help promote contact-free racing. That is the crux of the problem & the reason racing against the GT5 AI - particularly in a close situation with a number of cars around - is so unsatisfying.
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I agree with this as well, the proximity detection seems to extend directly to the right left front and back, and not really far either, I'd say about 50-75 feet front and back 20-25 left and right making a cross like shape, instead of being a circle around the car with a fairly decent diameter. The AI contact seems to happen most often corner to corner. This is of course speculation, but I think a lot of you would agree.
 
All of this blaming the AI for not reacting quick enough is all every interesting and all, but it doesn't mention the main problem with AI.....

The AI just isn't quick enough to keep up with me when we are both in the same car.

The only way to challenge myself is to race against them in infrior technology
 
warpspeed2slow
I am impressed there is someone rational here.

Even the OP tried to spin that in GT's favor. Seems to be a lot of apologists in here.

Gtracedriver, Hig-GT, Goudvis and MowTin what kind of kool-aid are you guys drinking?
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In all fairness I said it "looked" like he came into the AI, but I also acknowledged that it could be the other way around and that it was interesting, because he WAS drifting to the right.

Also, the last comment is not needed here. This is for reasonable discussion only, these types of comments will not be tolerated. Same thing goes for everyone else.

SavageEvil
Sounds like bad teaching here, in racing you don't make a move unless you are sure of your self, he was avoiding the car ahead of him way too early. You must be blind or something, but he encroached on the AI driving line, this is a race and there is no room for bad decisions such as this. Ideally a human player would have seen you and either backed off, or swerved. The AI in GT5 is dumb at points, but that was completely your fault.

You guys seems to think that the driver was not at fault he 100% was, he's trying to avoid a car ahead of him which was more than a few car lengths ahead of him(albeit no reason to, he wasn't fast enough to reach the car ahead anyway). This is a simple case of human driver causing the majority of contact between you and the AI, and therefore the AI doesn't give you room because of whatever weird lapse in programming. Fact is the human driver was ultimately wrong. In fact, why did the human player back off when he felt the contact? No he didn't why? Because he was thinking, why should I back off, he hit me. The problem with the AI is for some reason when your car goes into a spin, it's as if you are no longer present, they will ram into you continuously, that is a flaw in the AI sub routines that doesn't cater for a car spinning out and being left sideways on the road. AI tenacity isn't always high as it should be is another flaw, but the big problem is the human player who makes ill advised moves for no apparent reason. You should be just as aware of your surroundings as you claim you want the AI to be.
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I would refuse to say that it was 100% AI or human until we could see the same replay from the AI perspective. From where I sit, I would say the blame is split down the middle, or leaning toward the fault of the AI after watching the video more closely.

Also, please keep it civil Savage. The "you must be blind" comment is unneeded.
 
Gohon
All of this blaming the AI for not reacting quick enough is all every interesting and all, but it doesn't mention the main problem with AI.....

The AI just isn't quick enough to keep up with me when we are both in the same car.

The only way to challenge myself is to race against them in infrior technology
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Does this happen on the intermediate or professional difficulty in Arcade mode? Only times in GT Life where driving against the AI is a hard task is when you play GT All Stars and all the races against similar vehicles. Inferior vehicles you will not win in, that much I know. Like the Wind in an inferior car? I would love to see the video of that being done in an inferior car.

RedSuinit
...
I would refuse to say that it was 100% AI or human until we could see the same replay from the AI perspective. From where I sit, I would say the blame is split down the middle, or leaning toward the fault of the AI after watching the video more closely.

Also, please keep it civil Savage. The "you must be blind" comment is unneeded.
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I am not exonerating the AI, but if you look at where the course is going, him going over to the right made little to no sense at the time when he made that move, for the next corner was a right sweeper. Making a move to the right he could have used better judgment such as not moving that far over, consciously he should know that he isn't racing by himself. That move didn't require such a large movement to the right if any at all.

The AI for better of for worse lost track of him, if you noticed the AI was aware of him until his quarter panel was at a certain distance then as he continued to move into the AI's line, the AI didn't slow down at all, it's as if he wasn't there(like when you spin out, the AI does the same thing). Lapse in programming is what GT5 has, but a lot of the contact can be brought down to human driver error. Not sure if all the testers at PD drive like this, but many of the public tend to drive as though everyone should be on the look out for them, whilst they care not about anything not within their view.

Sorry about the ill placed comment, but I play the AI a lot in arcade mode, and getting pitted is not something that I have happen much if at all. The GT life AI is basically B Spec mode, with it's hot and cold stuff, Arcade mode you choose it from the difficulty and that's how it drives most of the race. Arcade mode AI puts up a serious fight when on certain courses and given racing vehicles, but they still do not act aggressive enough, just did a two lapper on Laguna Seca and the AI was driving incredibly slow. But I go on le Sarthe and they drive hard with the race cars?!?
 
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However, you might also notice that there was a Red car to the right of the AI that swerved left and hit him and he was straightening up. I believe that both the AI and the player are to blame.
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No. I don't believe CoolCol was to blame at all. Criticizing him for moving to the inside to pass too early is ridiculous - what he did was quite reasonable: anticipate & move early. Would it have been better if he had waited until the last minute & then swerved to the right or left?

What is important is that:

1) CoolCol was clearly, unambiguously IN FRONT of the white car.
2) Coolcol was traveling STRAIGHT & the white car swerved into HIM.

I agree it is not entirely clear if the white car swerved because of contact with the red car.
 
SavageEvil
Does this happen on the intermediate or professional difficulty in Arcade mode? Only times in GT Life where driving against the AI is a hard task is when you play GT All Stars and all the races against similar vehicles. Inferior vehicles you will not win in, that much I know. Like the Wind in an inferior car? I would love to see the video of that being done in an inferior car.



I am not exonerating the AI, but if you look at where the course is going, him going over to the right made little to no sense at the time when he made that move, for the next corner was a right sweeper. Making a move to the right he could have used better judgment such as not moving that far over, consciously he should know that he isn't racing by himself. That move didn't require such a large movement to the right if any at all.

The AI for better of for worse lost track of him, if you noticed the AI was aware of him until his quarter panel was at a certain distance then as he continued to move into the AI's line, the AI didn't slow down at all, it's as if he wasn't there(like when you spin out, the AI does the same thing). Lapse in programming is what GT5 has, but a lot of the contact can be brought down to human driver error. Not sure if all the testers at PD drive like this, but many of the public tend to drive as though everyone should be on the look out for them, whilst they care not about anything not within their view.
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But therein lies the huge problem with the A.I. We have to drive in such a way as not to "break" the A.I. whereas in other games you just drive and what happens happens. If the A.I. can get out of your way and preserve their life and chance of winning they will, if not then it's 5 car pile up time. When I'm racing in GT5 I'm trying to be conscious not to break the "I" in the A.I. even IF it means making moves I wouldn't make in a real competitive race. In other games I'm trying to race, point blank, that's it. I don't have to concentrate so much on breaking the A.I.
 
t.o.
But therein lies the huge problem with the A.I. We have to drive in such a way as not to "break" the A.I. whereas in other games you just drive and what happens happens. If the A.I. can get out of your way and preserve their life and chance of winning they will, if not then it's 5 car pile up time. When I'm racing in GT5 I'm trying to be conscious not to break the "I" in the A.I. even IF it means making moves I wouldn't make in a real competitive race. In other games I'm trying to race, point blank, that's it. I don't have to concentrate so much on breaking the A.I.
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That's part of it and obviously some people race in such a way that naturally covers up the flaws in the AI. Then they close-mindedly defend it as being fine. You shouldn't have to know the in's & out's of racing to not be pitted in a game. To think so is elitism.
 
RedSuinit
This is an EVIDENCE thread. Don't just post in here saying, the AI is dumb, or the AI is awesome! If you have actual video evidence of one or the other being true, post it here, and explain the evidence to make your case.
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Damn. I don't have any videos to help "explain the evidence and make my case". So I guess I can't contribute.
 
Here is a hint to help with AI from pit you. Don't try to win the race in the first corner nor first lap when the AI are butch together and your tires are cold.
 
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t.o.
But therein lies the huge problem with the A.I. We have to drive in such a way as not to "break" the A.I. whereas in other games you just drive and what happens happens.
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What other game? Find me a game where there AI doesn't make these mistakes.

I think the AI was at fault there. It's not that the AI is "blind" it's that it miscalculates the distance between his nose and the rear of the other car.

No one here is saying the AI is perfect. What we're saying is that it's just as good as the AI in other console racing games.

Again, people complain more about it in GT5 because GT5 has those license tests that require you to make reckless overtaking moves. Another problem is races where your car is much faster than the field.
 
What is really funny that people blame AI for accidents when they make bad judgment. In such case it is called racing incident. AI cannot learn from its mistake it is not so smart but the user can understand AI behaviour. Seriously it is not difficult it is same with every game :rolleyes:
 
Mubble
Damn. I don't have any videos to help "explain the evidence and make my case". So I guess I can't contribute.
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Feel free to discuss what is being shown, but don't just come in here with all of these claims about how much the AI sucks, or is really good.

Biggles
No. I don't believe CoolCol was to blame at all. Criticizing him for moving to the inside to pass too early is ridiculous - what he did was quite reasonable: anticipate & move early. Would it have been better if he had waited until the last minute & then swerved to the right or left?

What is important is that:

1) CoolCol was clearly, unambiguously IN FRONT of the white car.
2) Coolcol was traveling STRAIGHT & the white car swerved into HIM.

I agree it is not entirely clear if the white car swerved because of contact with the red car.
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I am not saying that he moved over too early, but that he was still moving over when the white car swerves to the left. If however the white car had to move over because the red car had no room, and the AI hit CoolColJ as a result, I would call it a racing incident and that both are DEFINITELY (CoolColJ not leaving enough room for the red and white car to be side by side, the AI for not braking and moving behind him) to blame. As it stands though, it's either partial blame on both parties, or the AI's fault. It depends on why the AI car swerved to the left. However I will say that the AI, when on a severe inside line, will attempt to move outward towards the racing line with little to no concern for the human driver. I have only noticed this though when I have crowded an AI car all the way to the right side of the track coming into a right hand turn.

1) Agreed, however I think he was still moving towards the right when the white car swerves left, and I think that the white car swerved left because the red car had no room on his right. However I could be completely wrong.

2) He actually isn't traveling straight. If you watch the video you can see his vehicle moving away from the left side of the road. You can tell this because the gap keeps getting bigger. However you can also tell that he is trying to straighten up when the incident occurs. You can also see that the AI swerves to the left for some reason. Like I said I believe that both are at fault, but that the AI could be completely to blame. Now if I saw a video of the AI point of view and he just swerves over for no reason then I will agree that it was 100% the AI's stupidity that caused the crash. I however do not believe that CoolColJ is 100% at fault in any case whatsoever.
 
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