Video evidence of GT5's AI: The good, and the bad.

  • Thread starter Thread starter RedSuinit
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Thing I noticed was that, when the AI drifted over, once contact was made, rather than straightening out, the AI turns INTO him pretty hard... Turned what would have been just an unsettling bump into a pretty calculated PIT maneuver. He's accelerating while turning left pretty hard.

Personally, I think this changes the contact from a 'racing incident' into 'avoidable contact'.
 
After watching the video several more times I must conclude that the AI had no reason at all to come over and swerve to the left. It was clearly past the red car and is a clear representation of AI stupidity. Good video CoolColJ, it has spurred on some good discussion.
 
CoolColJ
I didn't save the replay unfortunately :(
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:( Too bad. Oh, well. I think I have satisfied myself to the point that I fully agree with Biggles on the matter, and that the AI just did something really dumb and foolish.
 
I think I have satisfied myself to the point that I fully agree with Biggles on the matter, and that the AI just did something really dumb and foolish.
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Thank you! It's certainly a relief to find that endless discussion CAN (occasionally) actually lead somewhere! ;)

I think that's just one example of the improved, but still sub-standard AI in GT5. I feel there are many, many more. However, I'm also perfectly satisfied overall with what GT5 has to offer - great driving & the possibility of great online racing. Great offline racing just isn't it's strong point.
 
I think the AI just wanted to get over to a better line, since there is a right hander coming up
 
Biggles
Thank you! It's certainly a relief to find that endless discussion CAN (occasionally) actually lead somewhere! ;)

I think that's just one example of the improved, but still sub-standard AI in GT5. I feel there are many, many more. However, I'm also perfectly satisfied overall with what GT5 has to offer - great driving & the possibility of great online racing. Great offline racing just isn't it's strong point.
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I think I would be much more satisfied with the AI if I actually felt like it had the burning desire to win (within reason, endless bashing and crashes would make me even more mad than the lack of real competition).
 
My driver V.Baron is just about as fast as me on this track with the GT-R. Sub 1min on Tsukuba. He's at level 15. So the AI can be fast, but Polyphony Digital for some reason likes to dumb em down :(

630+ hp GT-R Spec V, second half of the video 3:12 onwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGHGbHXRIH8
[YOUTUBEHD]uGHGbHXRIH8[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
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I don't think the AI cars have the same physics as our cars do, though. I tried PIT-ing an AI car as retaliation for doing it to me :sly: and it didn't seem as if there was anything I could do at ALL, let alone the minor contact that causes me to PIT out, to make his rear end break loose.

One thing I like about Shift's AI (for all their idiocy) is that they appear to be virtually the same as me when it comes to unsettling their handling.

Sauce for the goose OUGHT to be sauce for the gander... 💡
 
My thoughts on Coolcol's vid . . .

1. The contact was not the human driver's error. He had established a position of at least A-pillar ahead of the AI driver and was maintaining a straight race line (watch his controller R/L if your unclear on this.)

2. The AI did not pass a "decision" point whereby it could make an adjustment. Probably because the main straight at LeMans has three or four drive lines pre-programmed for the ai with sporadic decision points (where the AI can change lines.)

3. The drive lines most likely condense to two or three drive lines for the right handed turn 1. If indeed the drive lines converge, that would explain why the AI car was gradually moving left . . . to set up the corner.

4. The AI, while very reactive in other video examples (autumn ring) was not very predictive or reactive in Coolcol's example.

The question I ask myself, is what would a human driver have done if they were in that AI car? I think a human would have followed one of two choices, either lift to get into the draft of the human players lotus, or slide to the right and try an hold an inside-inside-inside through turn 1 hoping for others to get tangled up wide. Perhaps this is why the AI seems completely counter-intuitive at times, the AI went left when I think most folks would have slowed or gone right.

The other shortcoming I am finding is that the drive paths/decision points don't seem to allow the AI to alter its apex. For instance, in racing, if a driver get's taken on the inside with hard braking, they will usually alter their line to a late apex and inside exit. GT5 AI doesn't seem to have this as a standard counter move.
 
Probably the worse example of the AI, when it glitches, it really glitches :crazy:
More work need to be done PD.

All aboard the GT5 train! :)
 
CoolColJ
Probably the worse example of the AI, when it glitches, it really glitches :crazy:
More work need to be done PD.

All aboard the GT5 train! :)
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I would think this wouldn't be too hard to fix since the AI already programed to back up and go around you. The problem is this option doesn't kick in until they are totally stopped. It needs to kick in sooner.
 
CoolColJ
Me getting pitted by the AI just then :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOt-xjn0ohI
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AI's fault; the line you take can be labeled as defensive driving in real life. You -slowly- swerve to the right and try to close AI off and make it difficult for him to overtake. You should obviously respect his space, but there was a significant amount left on the right side of AI's car, thus giving him the possibility to avoid you by steering to the right. On top of that, AI actually steers into you during contact and pushes you into a spin, instead of backing off or steering to the right to avoid further contact.

Note that your slow movement towards the right is the key here; in other words, you're giving the AI a chance to respond. If you would abruptly move into AI's line, you would be causing the spin yourself.
 
On the Ginetta video and the Shelby video, it's not CoolColJ's fault. It's clearly the AI's. A real person could have easily reacted to the Ginetta, and even more easily to the Shelby.

However, I can't say on what level should AI be considered good or bad. I'll leave that to the experts.

EDIT: By the way, the Ginetta looks AWESOME. Certainly the best looking standard car I have seen so far. 👍
 
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What's funny is that there were people who said it was CoolColJ's fault when it wasn't ambiguous. I don't wanna call them "fanboy's" but I don't know how else you could spin the video that way, unless....
 
Well the AI does seem improved when you turn on damage in V1.05

Testing the v1.05 offline damage on a track I made before on the Course Generator. Damage effects the AI and they will pit as a result of it.
You can see that Yellow car trying to avoid me as I return to the track when he's in the middle of his turn at 3:25 👍

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBX1a7ViAJc
 
Been a few days since I have been on this thread. Good stuff CoolColJ! Some good examples of AI flaws. Who knows maybe one day with a large enough collection, we can send it to PD as a constructive feedback and they can SEE what we are talking about and approach a way to fix it.
 
RedSuinit
Been a few days since I have been on this thread. Good stuff CoolColJ! Some good examples of AI flaws. Who knows maybe one day with a large enough collection, we can send it to PD as a constructive feedback and they can SEE what we are talking about and approach a way to fix it.
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AI is much better in v1.05, especially if you turn on damage 👍
They really do try and avoid you now, at least with the races I tried in Arcade mode, Pro level.

I was driving aggressively, dive bombing in and around them and I didn't get touched once, plus I also had to be careful because of the damage :)

I'll post a video later. I just wish PD added more levels so we can fine tuned their speed to our level of play. They're are just too slow for most decent drivers right now...starting from the back and working to the front is just not racing!
 
Here's mine with comments in the video, B-Spec.

Warning: The video is meant to expose the weakness of GT5's AI system, so if you like GT5's AI design, please do NOT watch.

 
paytonlow
Here's mine with comments in the video, B-Spec.

Warning: The video is meant to expose the weakness of GT5's AI system, so if you like GT5's AI design, please do NOT watch.

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Cote d' Azure is definitely the WEAKEST track for the AI. However, there are some distinct flaws with your comments on the video. For example, at the beginning, the Toyota 7 has TERRIBLE off the line acceleration. The low RPM's are practically useless, and this is reflected in the power-band, that really has nothing to do with the AI. Also, let me guess you were spamming the pace up and overtake button? That leads to MISTAKES on the part of the AI driver. You can call it terrible AI if you want to, but if you are giving him terrible commands, PD made it so that he would make bad decisions. Give him the proper instruction "Pace down", "Keep pace", then when an opening occurs, "Overtake", etc. My Toyota 7 managed to win this race, and I experience only one or two of the problems you did. The main one was the back off of an overtake coming into that double hairpin after the quick right-hander that follows the uphill section. Also, the only people that "late brake overtake" coming into turn one when they are THAT FAR AWAY, are idiotic punting kids that know little to nothing about proper overtaking, when the AI brakes early, that is a part of the problem, but the late braking comment, don't make me laugh.
 
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RedSuinit
Cote d' Azure is definitely the WEAKEST track for the AI. However, there are some distinct flaws with your comments on the video. For example, at the beginning, the Toyota 7 has TERRIBLE off the line acceleration. The low RPM's are practically useless, and this is reflected in the power-band, that really has nothing to do with the AI. Also, let me guess you were spamming the pace up and overtake button? That leads to MISTAKES on the part of the AI driver. You can call it terrible AI if you want to, but if you are giving him terrible commands, PD made it so that he would make bad decisions. Give him the proper instruction "Pace down", "Keep pace", then when an opening occurs, "Overtake", etc. My Toyota 7 managed to win this race, and I experience only one or two of the problems you did. The main one was the back off of an overtake coming into that double hairpin after the quick right-hander that follows the uphill section. Also, the only people that "late brake overtake" coming into turn one when they are THAT FAR AWAY, are idiotic punting kids that know little to nothing about proper overtaking, when the AI brakes early, that is a part of the problem, but the late braking comment, don't make me laugh.
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Well, if you doubt my B-Spec management skills, I shall give you another video showing how Bob actually won the race. However, I think you should have known there're some conditions to avoid, e.g. 2J Race Car, etc.

 
paytonlow
Well, if you doubt my B-Spec management skills, I shall give you another video showing how Bob actually won the race. However, I think you should have known there're some conditions to avoid, e.g. 2J Race Car, etc.

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I hope you don't misunderstand me. I am not doubting your management skills, just stating that it seems like you were mashing the pace up and overtake commands. I have done it before, and I am very good at managing my drivers. However when frustrated at a race because I can't seem to win, sometimes I will simply mash those commands, that's all I meant. Promise ;). The AI does need work, and if you look on the first post, I note that it shows some of the deep flaws with the AI. I merely state that some of your comments in the video should be taken with a grain of salt, and they should for the reasons I have posted above.
 
Well I won that race with a level 17 driver with the 2J race car starting first from the grid and leading all the way :)

I paced my guy down on the two chicanes, you have to keep him under 3/4 on the heat bar.
 
Col, with regards to the AI. In arcade mode do the cars stay as a pack or do we get a rabbit car. Just wondering if you've done much in arcade.
 

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