Vision GT after 12 years: Innovation or Disconnection? What’s the future of this Project?

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JohnMcLuke
Concept cars have always played an important role in Gran Turismo, often attracting many players.. Sometimes even anticipating real cars that later hit the streets, or becoming legendary examples of prototypes that never made it to production, like the Nardo, the Cien or the Viper GTS-R.

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Personally, I don’t think the Vision Gran Turismo project is a bad idea. When I first heard they were going to give more space to concept cars, I was genuinely excited. But in reality, things turned out very differently, because maybe the project itself has simply taken a different direction.
Leaving aside the models without interiors (which is honestly embarrassing), and the totally unrealistic designs like the Dodge and Chaparral, there are still some genuinely interesting cars in the Vision lineup. In a better context, I would have been enthusiastic about cars like the Honda Sport Vision, the VW Supersport, the Nissan Concept 2020, or even other well-executed prototypes like the Citroën GT and the Mazda RX Vision road car.

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But the problem is that now there’s no real interest left in the new prototypes they’re planning to add. How many players would actually prefer other kinds of prototypes like the older ones? Or simply road/race cars without this weird project.

It’s not like we’ve ever had total freedom when it comes to prototypes (not even in GT3 or GT4), but back then they added cars that were simply more attractive, more iconic, and also more intriguing, which pulled people in. Vision GT, on the other hand, has distanced me from the original concept of what a prototype should be.. At least the way I saw it, and perhaps the way Polyphony saw it years ago. Some of the Vision cars are just flat-out unrealistic, or honestly ugly from multiple points of view.

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That said, there are exceptions, the Bulgari, the Honda Sport Vision, and others mentioned earlier are beautiful to drive and have realistic performance. But the overall direction? Nobody really knows.
Most of these cars are never used for anything. Even the good ones aren’t integrated into events. Some are just thrown in the game without interiors (which, for someone like me who drives exclusively in cockpit view, makes them pretty much useless). Others are so over-the-top and unrealistic that they end up making the experience boring instead of exciting. There’s not even a proper thread or space to understand what the community really thinks, though it’s clear there’s a lot of justified dissatisfaction.

I’d like to know how many people still actually want Vision GT cars, how many, like me, believed in the project at first but are now very doubtful, and how many never wanted them at all..(?). In my opinion, some of them are cool and could be included in special events against supercars or modern hypercars. But a 25% of good, well designed Vision cars doesn’t justify a 75% of exaggerated, impractical, or incomplete ones. It’s been over 10 years since the Vision GT project started, and honestly, at this point there’s way more smoke than fire.
 
Yeah I mean they're all just generic rubbish. I don't care about any of them, and like you say where there was once some promise and originality is now just rehashes of the same ridiculous impractical formula. It's either a wedge with 1000hp and no brakes or a weird spaceship with stupid aero.
I see it as just a way for them to build relationships with brands, which I imagine is all it really is anyway.

If them working with Ferrari on a VGT gives us more Ferraris or them doing a partnered event with Skoda lets them get some more Skodas added to the game, then they're fine by me.
Ahh oops, wait a second.
 
Realistic direction: They get one or two more per year when they want to tighten relationships with new manufacturers (see: Xiaomi, Genesis) or when a manufacturer wants into the GTWS but doesn't have a valid GT3 car (see: Suzuki). I don't think there's going to be that many more of them.

I don't care about most of them. But the Suzuki (non Gr.3) is a really cool car you should all try out if you haven't.

Edit:
If them working with Ferrari on a VGT gives us more Ferraris or them doing a partnered event with Skoda lets them get some more Skodas added to the game, then they're fine by me.
Ahh oops, wait a second.
I'm normally quite sanguine about PD, but the Skoda thing is one that still really annoys me. The one time they do a proper PR and marketing push, send Kaz out to Prague, host the GTWS in Prague, have the '50s Skoda Le Mans car on stage... for only an electric VGT and seemingly nothing more.
 
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I see it as just a way for them to build relationships with brands
But why were some car manufacturers initially announced and then disappeared? The first that comes to mind is Ford. They were initially involved, then they withdrew, seemingly without leaving any problem in the relationship. Wouldn't it have been better to take existing prototype models as they were before, avoiding all the time and risk that comes with it?
I don't care about most of them. But the Suzuki (non Gr.3) is a really cool car you should all try out if you haven't.
Exactly, like the RX Vision GR.3, or even the Genesis GR.3. These are cars that are contextualized and can be used to exploit what they can actually offer, whereas with the GR1 there are already many more relevant gaps.
 
I agree about the BMW, VW, Honda, MINI. Even the Mitsubishi and Subaru. Those all look close to what could be on the road in actuality and design language.

Cars like the Suzuki and Skoda would do well for those brands as they don't have sports cars, but detuned would probably get traction to be built in more practical form.

Bar the AMG, Audi and McLaren, most others are just too much. The craziest is Jaguar. Imagine if the brand had promoted the VGT instead of the Bauhaus Bloc thing. It's like two complete different companies in the one brand.
 
Exactly, like the RX Vision GR.3, or even the Genesis GR.3. These are cars that are contextualized and can be used to exploit what they can actually offer
... except they aren't Vision GT cars. The Genesis is the brand's own "X Concept" from the 2021 LA Motor Show, and the Mazda is the RX-Vision Concept - which is also available in the game now, whereas it wasn't in GT Sport - from the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show made into a GT3 car concept.

The only Vision GT Gr.3 cars are the Peugeot, the Suzuki, the Toyota, and the Volkswagen.
 
I think concept cars and their significance in GT have been grossly overstated, and I don't care much for them unless a working prototype actually exists. The percentage of them in each game has kept growing and growing, well after GT already cemented its legacy as a game changing franchise.

I see Vision GT as partly an attempt by PD to short-cut getting a newer car list, because they have really struggled for whatever reason to keep their car list fresh. But it doesn't work for me, because I don't care for make-believe cars at the expense of other cars they could be modelling.

For instance the Ferrari 458 has been succeeded by the 488, F8 and 296 and we still have the 458 in Group 3 and Group 4. In fact the 458 racing variant was already outdated when it debuted in GT Sport.

I think it's really about Yamauchis interest in ingratiating himself within the industry with limited benefit to players and frankly I wouldn't miss Vision GT if it went.
 
Thinking back to how many concept cars PD used to include in the game. Might not be PD at all. I mean, do Land Rover want to or even care to include a new Range Rover concept in the game?
Look at the Nissan Z, which wasn't even talked about or hyped by Nissan being in GT7. We had so many 350Zs to choose from in GT4.
Corvette C8 arrived, but no special camoflauge version. No Gr.4 or Gr.3 version.
How many FT-86s did we get between GT5 and GT6?

Maybe it's the manufacturers that lost touch. Sure, Kaz may have reached out for the recent CUV/SUV additions. How about the manufacturers? Don't they want to share what's on the drawing board to attract their future customers?
 
How about the manufacturers? Don't they want to share what's on the drawing board to attract their future customers?
You right, this isn't possible, it's just the obsession with creating Vision that pushes away the idea of the concepts of the past. We have a few concept cars (NOT Gr. race cars) in the game not on Vision tag (that are good), and too much irrealistic **** Vision cars.
I see Vision GT as partly an attempt by PD to short-cut getting a newer car list, because they have really struggled for whatever reason to keep their car list fresh.
I don't know.. It definitely didn't go as I hoped.. Your speech might make sense among other things only for sporadic additions now.. not for most cars, before it was definitely as you say moreover, like the prototype of the Supra (FT-1) that has already 10 years, or others.
they aren't Vision GT cars.
You're right, they're just prototypes, but not under the Vision cover. In fact, the very few non-Vision prototypes that exist are beautiful in my opinion.
 
Don't quote me on this, but Automobili Pininfarina may or may not be working on something.
They did the Fittipaldi, but that apparently never came back as Fittipaldi is almost certainly defunct.
 
For me VGT started great but then evolved into something weird (that I don't like), like dodos :D
and the totally unrealistic designs like the Dodge
I like the tomahawk and how it takes everything to extreme levels (power, weight, aerodynacs). Kinda similar to the redbull vettel x1 in gt5 (or was it 6?).
 
I personally enjoy most VGT cars for the most part, and to make have a very unique niche of allowing players to drive non existent cars with realistic physics and feel, this aspect alone is why I enjoy the project a lot, not to mention some of the really cool designs you sometimes see (Suzuki VGT Gr3 my beloved) and exploration of some truly wild and creative ideas e.g the tomahawk and the chaparral especially

However this isn't to say they are without fault - the Gr3 class VGTs are usually nerfed super hard with BoP as if to prevent them from ever showing up in an official event capacity and most VGTs are borderline unusable in many of the singleplayer events (HELLO Daihatsu VGT which is genuinely somehow more useless than any of the 1000bhp+ tomahawk variants, seriously try to find an event where the daihatsu is capable)

I would post my favourite and least favourite VGTs but the former is often very hard for me to decide on haha

On that note I'm cautiously optimistic for the xaiomi VGT, cautiously at best mnd knowing it'll probably be an EV
 
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I'm cautiously optimistic for the xaiomi VGT, cautiously at best mnd knowing it'll probably be an EV
Besides the over the top physics that I don't like in some cars (but then again, those are just personal opinions since they're already in the game), what I find reckless is the continued lack of a truly interesting engine. As long as a couple are EVs, I can live with it, but making them all EVs takes away the appeal, in my opinion. Objectively, driving an electric car is a bit boring, but if you give me an unrealistic driving experience with weird mechanics, I might rightly think I'd prefer other cars.. Anything else, as long as it's not such weird like some of those.
evolved into something weird
If you like extreme cars like Dodge, shouldn't you also like the latest or new ones they release? Now you don't like the project anymore even though they've made cars you like? What's changed?
 
Besides the over the top physics that I don't like in some cars (but then again, those are just personal opinions since they're already in the game), what I find reckless is the continued lack of a truly interesting engine. As long as a couple are EVs, I can live with it, but making them all EVs takes away the appeal, in my opinion. Objectively, driving an electric car is a bit boring, but if you give me an unrealistic driving experience with weird mechanics, I might rightly think I'd prefer other cars.. Anything else, as long as it's not such weird like some of those.
Confused Trailer Park Boys GIF
 
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This was nice to see at Goodwood the other week, came from the VGT project.

But for me, although I do like concept cars, I don't like the hypercar/Gr.x/Gr1 style stuff, I prefar the more tame ones like the Mazda RX or the BMW that are more like a road car.

I did like the old quirky concepts from the older GT games though like the Nike car and the Pod car.
 
I prefar the more tame ones like the Mazda RX
This isn't a Vision GT car. Mazda's Vision GT is the LM55 - which also happens to be one of my favourites as it's a largely plausible LMP1 - whereas the RX-Vision is a regular concept car from the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show, made into a fictional GT3 car exclusively for GT7.
 
That might be why I like it then 😅
To be fair, you're also far from the only person who's previously thought that it is - which somewhat pushes into the idea I've floated before that really the only difference between a Vision GT car that has a real-world model (most of them; only a handful like the Infiniti, the original Peugeot VGT, and the Skoda do not) and a regular show concept is the GT logo.

Like regular concept cars, some (very few) actually work, some work pretty much only to roll around under the power of a chainsaw engine or compact motor to make life easier for the build/dismantle crew at motor shows, some are static models, and some are just clay bucks with no interior. I personally don't think that the no-interior ones should be allowed - supply your CAD for the whole thing or piss off - because it breaks the consistency of the vehicle list, but these are largely the oldest ones now.

The fundamental difference between the Genesis X Gran Berlinetta and... let's say the TVR Speed 12 Concept is... nothing. Likewise the fundamental difference between the Ferrari VGT and the Valmet Dawn is also pretty much nothing. Except the GT logo in both cases.
 
As long as a couple are EVs, I can live with it, but making them all EVs takes away the appeal, in my opinion.
It's left to the manufacturers as to how they interpret the brief - it's not PD making them all EVs. If manufacturers believe that EV is the future (and they pretty much have to these days), then that's what they'll do. The Porsche Mission X is an example. It's not a VGT, the fact that it's an EV is absolutely nothing to do with PD or it's inclusion into GT, but they still elected to make it an EV. Jaguar would be another example, their VGTs are EV's and now the brand has ceased production of all ICE vehicles - which is nothing to do with GT7. The other Skoda concept that they name-checked in the PR was an EV SUV.

... Some manufacturers are focusing on EVs, that's going to manifest in their visions for the future.

FWIW, power train selection has been fairly sensible, even if the predicted performance or specs the manufacturers claim isn't always.

Also, we've had I3, I4, Flat-4, I6, V6, VR6, V8, V10, V12, W16, Rotary, Naturally Aspirated, Single Turbo, Twin Turbo, Quad Turbo, Full Hybrid, Partial Hybrid, 700cc to 9 Litre, Fuel Cell EV, full BEV with 3 motors or 4 motors... and freakin' Plasma Pulse Propulsion. I don't think VGT has too much of an issue with variety.
 
Concept cars have always played an important role in Gran Turismo, often attracting many players.. Sometimes even anticipating real cars that later hit the streets, or becoming legendary examples of prototypes that never made it to production, like the Nardo, the Cien or the Viper GTS-R.

View attachment 1466337View attachment 1466336View attachment 1466345

Personally, I don’t think the Vision Gran Turismo project is a bad idea. When I first heard they were going to give more space to concept cars, I was genuinely excited. But in reality, things turned out very differently, because maybe the project itself has simply taken a different direction.
Leaving aside the models without interiors (which is honestly embarrassing), and the totally unrealistic designs like the Dodge and Chaparral, there are still some genuinely interesting cars in the Vision lineup. In a better context, I would have been enthusiastic about cars like the Honda Sport Vision, the VW Supersport, the Nissan Concept 2020, or even other well-executed prototypes like the Citroën GT and the Mazda RX Vision road car.

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But the problem is that now there’s no real interest left in the new prototypes they’re planning to add. How many players would actually prefer other kinds of prototypes like the older ones? Or simply road/race cars without this weird project.

It’s not like we’ve ever had total freedom when it comes to prototypes (not even in GT3 or GT4), but back then they added cars that were simply more attractive, more iconic, and also more intriguing, which pulled people in. Vision GT, on the other hand, has distanced me from the original concept of what a prototype should be.. At least the way I saw it, and perhaps the way Polyphony saw it years ago. Some of the Vision cars are just flat-out unrealistic, or honestly ugly from multiple points of view.

View attachment 1466350View attachment 1466351

That said, there are exceptions, the Bulgari, the Honda Sport Vision, and others mentioned earlier are beautiful to drive and have realistic performance. But the overall direction? Nobody really knows.
Most of these cars are never used for anything. Even the good ones aren’t integrated into events. Some are just thrown in the game without interiors (which, for someone like me who drives exclusively in cockpit view, makes them pretty much useless). Others are so over-the-top and unrealistic that they end up making the experience boring instead of exciting. There’s not even a proper thread or space to understand what the community really thinks, though it’s clear there’s a lot of justified dissatisfaction.

I’d like to know how many people still actually want Vision GT cars, how many, like me, believed in the project at first but are now very doubtful, and how many never wanted them at all..(?). In my opinion, some of them are cool and could be included in special events against supercars or modern hypercars. But a 25% of good, well designed Vision cars doesn’t justify a 75% of exaggerated, impractical, or incomplete ones. It’s been over 10 years since the Vision GT project started, and honestly, at this point there’s way more smoke than fire.
To me there is a difference between prototype and Vision GT cars.

Prototypes in the real world are effectively proof-of-concept. It's the manufacturer pitching an idea for near-future design philosophy and concepts. The manufacturer's still play within the boundaries of what is reasonable.

Vision GT on the other hand is, as Dodge and Chaparral show, the chance to design what they see the future looking like without the limitations of technology.

Prototype cars are great. Vision GT cars though are so fantastical and sci-fi that they don't "feel" natural in a game that's trying to be a sim.
 
As long as a couple are EVs, I can live with it, but making them all EVs takes away the appeal, in my opinion. Objectively, driving an electric car is a bit boring, but if you give me an unrealistic driving experience with weird mechanics, I might rightly think I'd prefer other cars...

Taking all the VGT (including racing variants) we have 46 cars from which:

-7 are EVs
-1 is Hydrogen based
-1 is Laser based
-2 are rotary
-35 are using ICE (a wide range from in line 4 Turbochaeged to W16 )
 
Vision GT on the other hand is, as Dodge and Chaparral show, the chance to design what they see the future looking like without the limitations of technology.

Prototype cars are great. Vision GT cars though are so fantastical and sci-fi that they don't "feel" natural in a game that's trying to be a sim.
This sounds like a significant generalisation based on a small pre-determined sample. There's nothing fantastical or Sci-Fi about a Copen RJ, or Honda Sports. Half the cars aren't fantastical enough to beat a GT3 car on a lap (stock for stock), most won't beat the Valkyrie, and even fewer the SF23. As far as the looks, go, there's plenty that would never get made looking like they do, but there's not many that couldn't in the absence of legalities or regulation sets.

There's 40+ VGTs in the game, yet peoples perceptions seem to be based on only a few - more usually it seems only two.

I’d like to know how many people still actually want Vision GT cars, how many, like me, believed in the project at first but are now very doubtful, and how many never wanted them at all..(?).
Don't know why this is white (therefore invisible in light mode), but my position on them hasn't changed since the beginning, I like them, I'm happy if each manufacturer has a VGT (with variants being okay) in the same way I'd be happy if all the manufacturers had a pre-1940's model, for example, or for manufacturers that don't have a GT3, to have a 'fake' Gr.3.

Each one represents a collaboration between PD and a manufacturer that isn't simply a replication of something that already exists - which is what concept cars in the game were going back to the Copperhead - and I quite like that. With that said, I don't mind other concept cars being included either, but I do perceive them as being two different things.

I don't however like them all, in the same way I don't really like 'all' the cars in any other comparably sized category.

I am less keen on the Gr. variants. Botching the stats to make some of them fit tends to mess things up a bit, but that's not unique to VGTs (Veyron Gr.4 for example).

Also, I'd like the Moon Rover back.
 
To me there is a difference between prototype and Vision GT cars.
That depends greatly on the car.

VGTs are more directly akin to concept cars, as noted above:

really the only difference between a Vision GT car that has a real-world model (most of them; only a handful like the Infiniti, the original Peugeot VGT, and the Skoda do not) and a regular show concept is the GT logo.

Like regular concept cars, some (very few) actually work, some work pretty much only to roll around under the power of a chainsaw engine or compact motor to make life easier for the build/dismantle crew at motor shows, some are static models, and some are just clay bucks with no interior.
Prototypes have to be, in some measure, functional - which means that there is a decent crossover between a fully realised concept car and a prototype.

Again, there's a range of what "functional" means in this regard. It could range from placeholder components to pretty much the final car and all points between.

The one prototype everyone fawns over - the Ford GT90 (which is, officially, a concept car) - was nowhere near a finalised car, but could indeed be driven. Underneath it was a butchered XJ220 chassis and a cobbled-together V12 that never ran with the turbos, and pretty much every piece of engineering on it was good enough to be driven at up to 100mph on a big, wide test track but nothing more.

Then you have the McLaren F1 XP5, which is literally an engineering prototype in production form (and not a concept car) and the car that set the production car top speed record (despite not being an actual production car, and also having a raised redline). And it was the press car.

It's a big range and some VGTs absolutely sit in that range: the Bugatti VGT, the Audi e-tron VGT, and the Genesis X Gran Berlinetta are all feature-complete, functioning car. Some others, like the VW Roadster (though I've never seen it confirmed how much) can be driven. The Fittipaldi EF7 was basically a production-ready prototype but again how much it could actually move I don't know, and I'd heard similar things about the IsoRivolta.

Otherwise, most Vision GT cars slot right into the concept category, with the exception of those handful that exist as 1:8 scale models (Infiniti, Peugeot, Skoda) or just don't exist at all outside of the virtual environment (Honda, Lexus, MINI, Suzuki). Some are existing concepts with maybe a couple of changes and a GT badge on (BMW, ItalDesign, Mitsubishi, Subaru).
 
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