Vote for 60fps replays!

[Stonemonkey]

I reckon we'll get replays, but with different ways of viewing them.

1. The usual way of viewing them after a race or by loading the replay data into the theater and using the game engine to render in realtime an you can select angles and stuff while viewing, quite possibly not 60fps.

2. A video version of photo mode, where you can edit the cameras and stuff to create a video of a replay which is then rendered onto your HDD in photo mode quality (or something in between) and can be played back at 60fps or uploaded to youtube.

EDIT: If they do that, which I think is highly likely as to me it's the logical progression from photomode, then I think it's also highly likely that they'd include some way of editing parts of replays together and anyone will be able to put their photo mode quality 60fps HiDef GT 'ultimate crashes' video up on youtube without the need for any screen capture hardware and PC editing or poor quality filming off screen.

 

[Griffith500]

That's not true at all. If a human is displayed with discrete images its been shown they can discern very high framerates (beyond 100fps).

Images stay on the retina longer than that (from memory 0.1s, but I can't remember the exact numbers), which is part of the reason a fast moving object will blur (the human eye doesn't see discrete images like a monitor displays, it blurs several milliseconds of data together).

But its a lie people can't perceive above 60fps, its just move monitors and TVs only display images at a maximum rate of 60fps.

The only reason movies work at 24fps is what I mentioned earlier, the camera blurs images together smoothly. Even in movies, during slow panning shots it can sometimes show up the low framerate.

Aahh, that explains better the 24 fps in the cinema thing! I wonder though, in this digital age, whether this will change in the near future... I suppose you could engineer the interface to mimic real film - wouldn't surprise me at all - then they wouldn't have to change anything else!

But some people really cannot perceive above 60 fps - some even lower than that. Just the same as we're all born with different aural acuity, we all have differing visual acuity (I feel I'm stating the obvious - sorry) and they both degrade with age. It's always the oldies who reckon there's no difference in the "newfangled" stuff "they" keep coming out with

Luckily my monitor will display 75 Hz, and that's easier on the brain for me. I know that many exceed this (100 Hz is not uncommon), of course higher refresh rates are more effective in discerning high-contrast (I mean, large differences) between frames - that's why "blurring" is so useful.

As a further aside, the brain does not interpret the image at all, rather the changes in that image. Sounds strange, but it's exactly the same with our hearing, touch, pain etc. etc. We would not hear at all if it weren't for that fact - what can you do with static information of pressure?

 

[Stonemonkey]

.....

The only reason movies work at 24fps is what I mentioned earlier, the camera blurs images together smoothly. Even in movies, during slow panning shots it can sometimes show up the low framerate.

Definitely not for movies, the shutter speed would be fast so as not to cause blurring.

I don't understand this want for 24fps in GT, It would be terrible. 24fps is not good for fast motion and things like sports.

 

[Angerdx]

Who said?I love replays - I need it!
Maybe you not understand beauty of it that's all. Maybe we don't need replays at all?
I mean if 60fps enhances visuals in-game HOW it not enhanses visuals of replays.Question about importance of replays is subjective.We talk about replays now.If replays are not important for you it's another question.

I´m fully aware that youre on about the replays

I never said anything on not needing replays or that i don´t like them what i did say is forget the 60fps in replays as it will not happen, the game and ps3 can´t handle it period, if you can´t achive a consistent 60 it´s better to lock it at 30 which is what PD is doing, if you are asking them to downgrade the replays in quality just to achive 60fps then i wouldn´t even bother with it cause it´s not needed at all the replays are excellent just as they are.

So no matter how much some belive it´s possible it´s not as Kaz/PD would have done it otherwise and i even think he at some point explained the reason why it just escapes me when as it´s quite a long time ago.

So basicly you can choose 2 routes downgrade the replay visuals to achive 60fps or do the best possible at 30, really not that hard of a choice as your precious 60fps just downgraded the visuals, FPS doesn´t enhance visuals it just makes it more fluid.

Sorry for all the rambling but going on my last energy reserves for the week heh.

 

[Stonemonkey]

I´m fully aware that youre on about the replays

I never said anything on not needing replays or that i don´t like them what i did say is forget the 60fps in replays as it will not happen, the game and ps3 can´t handle it period, if you can´t achive a consistent 60 it´s better to lock it at 30 which is what PD is doing, if you are asking them to downgrade the replays in quality just to achive 60fps then i wouldn´t even bother with it cause it´s not needed at all the replays are excellent just as they are.

So no matter how much some belive it´s possible it´s not as Kaz/PD would have done it otherwise and i even think he at some point explained the reason why it just escapes me when as it´s quite a long time ago.

So basicly you can choose 2 routes downgrade the replay visuals to achive 60fps or do the best possible at 30, really not that hard of a choice as your precious 60fps just downgraded the visuals, FPS doesn´t enhance visuals it just makes it more fluid.

Sorry for all the rambling but going on my last energy reserves for the week heh.

You don't think there's a chance they could combine photomode with replays and render much higher than game quality to the HDD to be played back at 60fps?

The point of photomode is to make the stills look as good as possible, why not do the same with replays now that it's possible?

And what better way to show off those 500k poly models. IMO this has got to be in it, the ability to make your own replays look as good as the pre rendered videos and possibly edit them to some extent and upload them to youtube.

 

[Angerdx]

You don't think there's a chance they could combine photomode with replays and render much higher than game quality to the HDD to be played back at 60fps?

The point of photomode is to make the stills look as good as possible, why not do the same with replays now that it's possible?

Somthing like that would be awsome and quite a technical feat, i´m still sceptical it would be possible as when you think of it photomode is well just that taking extremly high resolution photos, which is probably why that´s possible for them but doing the same in such high quality in a replay would be if not impossible but darn close, the ps3 is an awsome piece of hardware but somethings are just to much even for it if i had to guess we are atleast one generation of consoles away from somthing like this.

Someday someday

saw the edit so just to add, yes you will be able to make awsome looking replays that i´m sure of just not at 60fps and imo fps has nothing to do with the quality of the replay, for the replays 30fps at all times is good enough the broadcasts on ntsc for example is just that, well actually 29.97 or somthing like that the higher quality you do the harder it get´s to hit 60fps that´s constant and without huge dips.

 

[Stonemonkey]

Somthing like that would be awsome and quite a technical feat, i´m still sceptical it would be possible as when you think of it photomode is well just that taking extremly high resolution photos, which is probably why that´s possible for them but doing the same in such high quality in a replay would be if not impossible but darn close, the ps3 is an awsome piece of hardware but somethings are just to much even for it if i had to guess we are atleast one generation of consoles away from somthing like this.

Someday someday

Photo mode is more than just a higher resolution, stuff like lighting, shadows and reflections can be much improved and more detail from models can be used since you don't have to draw it in 1/60th second.

For the video I'm talking about it's still going to be 720p or 1080p but with the improvements to lighting and stuff from photomode. The PS3 does not need to render it realtime, instead it can render 1 frame at a time and write the frame to a video file on the HDD. That could take a while to render a full replay but the results would be amazing when the video is played back at 60fps. All very very possible and definitely more than likely I'd say.

 

[Angerdx]

Photo mode is more than just a higher resolution, stuff like lighting, shadows and reflections can be much improved and more detail from models can be used since you don't have to draw it in 1/60th second.

For the video I'm talking about it's still 720p or 1080p but with the improvements to lighting and stuff from photomode. The PS3 does not need to render it realtime, instead it can render 1 frame at a time and write the video data to the HDD. That could take a while to render a full replay but the results could be amazing. All very very possible and more than likely I'd say.

PD already do that in GT5P and you can be sure they will improve on it for full GT5, so we will get amazing replays anyway, people just need to drop the fps thing as it has nothing to do with graphical quality really.

@Below yes i know i meant the added effects and such, but i don´t belive for a second they will do somthing like what youre suggesting atleast not this generation but i´d love to be wrong on that just unlikely at this time but i´ll keep hope up and my fingers crossed they surpise us all!

 

[Stonemonkey]

PD already do that in GT5P and you can be sure they will improve on it for full GT5, so we will get amazing replays anyway, people just need to drop the fps thing as it has nothing to do with graphical quality really.

No, they do not do that in GT5P. Those replays are rendered realtime by the game engine.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

No, they do not do that in GT5P. Those replays are rendered realtime by the game engine.

Replay in GT5P have some special effect Kaz say that in interview about 2 years ago. That is reason why replay works in 1080p with 30fps and race work with 1080p and 60fps...

 

[Stonemonkey]

Replay in GT5P have some special effect Kaz say that in interview about 2 years ago. That is reason why replay works in 1080p with 30fps and race work with 1080p and 60fps...

That's still rendered realtime by the game engine, I'm talking about High quality (like photo mode) video rendering to the PS3 HDD, 'offline rendering'.

It could render the replay each frame, one at a time with photo mode quality (not realtime or displayed, just a progress bar is seen) and save each frame on to the hard disk as part of a video file, it could take quite a while to complete a full replay. Once all frames have been rendered and saved you can play the frames back at 60fps for absolutely stunning Jaw Dropping visuals.

That would not be difficult for PD to do and with the deal with youtube I can't imagine them not doing it. The game would still have the usual realtime replays too after races and available in the replay theater using the game engine but maybe they'd only be at 30fps.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Definitely not for movies, the shutter speed would be fast so as not to cause blurring.

I don't understand this want for 24fps in GT, It would be terrible. 24fps is not good for fast motion and things like sports.

Sorry, my mistake I know more about games than I know about movies

 

[alucard0712]

I doubt that GT5 will allow to render off-line replays in higher quality than in-game.Only lower 720p. (to match in-game presentation,and avoid graphical confuses)

 

[Stonemonkey]

I doubt that GT5 will allow to render off-line replays in higher quality than in-game.Only lower 720p. (to match in-game presentation,and avoid graphical confuses)

Possibly, but resolution is not the only measure of render quality. Lighting, shadows, reflections, level of detail, texture filtering, anti aliasing can all be improved probably along with a lot of other things.

 

[Angerdx]

First it would be such a waste as youtube compress their 1080p quite a bit so 1080p at 30fps is good enough for this generation and i can see why they do it, when you see the overhead for streaming 1080p content in full without compression, well let´s just say our home internet couldn´t handle it, at home i run the streaming at the second best option and it hit´s about 95-100+ Mb if i switch to the best option the overhead is just insane.

There is alot of things that play into what you can do and can´t, as i said i wouldn´t mind such a thing but i have a hard time seeing it being worth it for them or us just yet.

This is all just my take on it and i know PD can do some amazing technical stuff so whatever we get i´m sure they gave us the absolutly best they could in this point of time, just as gt5p was the best they could do at that point.

Intresting times to come that´s for sure.

 

[alucard0712]

Possibly, but resolution is not the only measure of render quality. Lighting, shadows, reflections, level of detail, texture filtering, anti aliasing can all be improved probably along with a lot of other things.

That what i'm talking about.They don't (i think) make rendered videos higher quality than in-game.Graphics need to match.

 

[Stonemonkey]

First it would be such a waste as youtube compress their 1080p quite a bit so 1080p at 30fps is good enough for this generation and i can see why they do it, when you see the overhead for streaming 1080p content in full without compression, well let´s just say our home internet couldn´t handle it, at home i run the streaming at the second best option and it hit´s about 95-100+ Mb if i switch to the best option the overhead is just insane.

There is alot of things that play into what you can do and can´t, as i said i wouldn´t mind such a thing but i have a hard time seeing it being worth it for them or us just yet.

This is all just my take on it and i know PD can do some amazing technical stuff so whatever we get i´m sure they gave us the absolutly best they could in this point of time, just as gt5p was the best they could do at that point.

Intresting times to come that´s for sure.

The thing I'm talking about is not difficult for PD to do, I'd be surprised if they didn't have it in among their tools anyway and it's just a progression from photomode.

 

[thedeester1]

I dont really give a Rats bottom...I watch about 1% of the replays...Give me better netcode so I can get a game in under 2 minutes and ill sell my soul to PD!

 

[Stonemonkey]

That what i'm talking about.They don't (i think) make rendered videos higher quality than in-game.Graphics need to match.

Like photo mode graphics match the rest of the game in previous GT?

 

[tyl0r_r]

60 frames a second for replays is fine but it's absolutely nothing to spend time wishing for because it's not going to make the game look noticeably better than 30-40. It is much more important that the actual gameplay be 60 FPS because this means there are 60 frames to which control inputs are applied which makes for smoother gameplay than a lower framerate. In replays, though, it's pretty much irrelevant. Your television plays shows at something like 26 frames a second and it doesn't look choppy. Frames per second are -- after reaching a certain benchmark in quality -- mostly useless as far as visual goodness is concerned.

 

[alucard0712]

Like photo mode graphics match the rest of the game in previous GT?

No.Don't mix all together.Photo is STILL picture.That's why it need to be higher quality than movie.If you remember in-game screens from GT5P they are not so impressive as game in motion.Game looks stunning, especially in 60fps.Video is representation of actual gameplay.
I think only quality of intro cinematic will be "maxed".
But again - it's PD.All possible!

 

[Stonemonkey]

I have to totally disagree, showing the cars off to the max has always been a huge part of GT. In GT1 there was the high res mode and later there was photo mode and I see no distinction between having a high quality still mode and a high quality video mode and I think the only reason we've not seen it before in a GT game is because it's not possible without a hard drive. people watch replays and people use photo mode, it's easily possible for PD to combine the two and I'm pretty sure they will.

 

[alucard0712]

I have to totally disagree, showing the cars off to the max has always been a huge part of GT. In GT1 there was the high res mode and later there was photo mode and I see no distinction between having a high quality still mode and a high quality video mode and I think the only reason we've not seen it before in a GT game is because it's not possible without a hard drive. people watch replays and people use photo mode, it's easily possible for PD to combine the two and I'm pretty sure they will.

Will be good!I'm talking about it in very first post!