VW Phaeton Prices???

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Haven't they stated a desire to make VW the core brand, offering cars in all segments, Audi the "Sports-Premium" brand, Seat the "Value Performance" brand, and Skoda the "Value and Quality" brand?

What perplexes me is that they seem to be building concept Audis that are a direct competitor to their Lamborghinis.

In my opinion, they should do the following:

Bugatti: Get rid. Can anyone else arrange these words into a sentence? "Veyron", "White", "Elephant", "money-pit", "is", "a", "a", "The", "and".

Lamborghini: Two performance coupe models. Shoot straight for Ferrari. Build cars properly.

Audi: Drop A3, and concentrate on medium-to-large saloons and estates, with large performance. Shoot straight at BMW 3, 5 & 7-series, but keep adding power and 4WD. Every so often, come out with coupe, but perhaps more technically convincing than TT. Attractive design and stellar build-quality. Plus the odd "technical experiment", such as A2 or ur-Quattro. Brand should be aspirational. People will pay.

VW: Cover from Polo to Passat. Keep Touareg, but drop spec and/or ridiculous diesel engine. Perhaps aim at Grand Cherokee. Drop Lupo. Sort out Golf equipment/engine/trim/badging levels. Not every damn Golf has to be badged "GTi". In its day, original GTi was like R32 is now (only lighter). Therefore, new performance model should be as same, with big engine and 4WD. However, feel free to make luxury Golf as replacement for dropped A3. Make new Passat. Cheaper than Audi A6, but obviously not as good, and not as quick. Passat offers good quality and workhorse engines that are good in company taxation laws. Nothing ridiculous like W8s, thanks. Oh, and while we're at it, drop Phaeton.

Seat: Learn from Citroen with Saxo VTR. I.e. make good-looking, cheap cars that are quick, to appeal to younger buyers. Unofficially support modifications (yes, even 'ricing'). Continue current line-up of Ibiza, Leon, Cordoba, being platform-shared with Polo and Golf. Drop Arosa.

Skoda: Make cheap cars. Not as well-built as other VW brands, but reasonably well-equipped. Cover Lupo/Arosa through to Octavia-sized cars. Octavia is selling well to the taxi-driver fraternity, this should be encouraged with good diesel engines. Drop "Superb". Ridiculous idea in the first place, and who's seen any around? I've seen about 3. Invest properly in, or pull out of, WRC.

So there you have it. My vision for the VW Group.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
I assume A3 sells, so why drop it? Especially as it's a direct competitor to the BMW 3-series compact and Mercedes C-sport coupe. Audi's the most viable BMW alternative on the planet, namely because they've got the 3-series' game down. What have you got against the TT?!

Yep, A3 sells, and is quite a decent car. However, I don't see the point of staying in that market sector, when you can sell good Golfs, and continue to make the money. It strikes me that 3-Compact and C-Coupe are reactions to A3. Perhaps Audi could keep it.

TT? It's all about the design, isn't it? It's not actually that good a car. It don't see it as a rival to CLK or 3-Series Coupe. I don't know. I guess I'm tired of it, but there are millions of them about, and it's basically a Golf in a party frock, so it's probably made them a hill of money.

The real problem I see is that Audi can't afford to keep with BMW. Audi's just about caught up to BMW now - they have no Z8 or 3-series coupe competitor, but they're developing the latter. The problem is, BMW might be actually sensing the competition and they're coming out with a score of new models: X3, 1-series, 4-series, 6-series, and maybe more. That means Audi's once again going to have to be playing catch-up.

6-Series is starting to get some not-terribly-good reviews over here. Z8 also lacked critical acclaim in the UK, mainly because everyone thought "M5 engine in roadster? That'll be awesome), and what they actually got was something of a boat. And it's actually less attractive in 3D. Not a good seller in the UK either.

In my vision, 1-Series should be handled by Polo/Golf. VW have it within their power to build excellent cars, especially smaller cars, so why not leave it to them? I'm yet to be convinced by BMW going into this sector. Is there money to be made there by a premium product? I fear not, as it's the most competitive sector in Europe, and everyone buying in that sector is very price-conscious.

Audi, thankfully, appear to be leaving the SUV sector alone (this based on my differing interpretation of the Allroad's market placement), and I think they should continue to do this, thus ignoring the X3, which is itself the depths of marketing cynicism. Let BMW spend the money in that sector.

Is there space between 3- and 5- for a 4-Series?

I wonder if it's not the case that any car maker who specifically goes after BMW isn't automatically on a hiding to nothing. I would have thought you're much better off building cars which are broadly similar in aims, but which are different. The thing with BMW is that they appear (that word used literally) to have sewn up the performance saloon and small-to-medium strict coupe markets.

Personally, I think that 6-Series is going to fail, because it's very expensive, and it's very big, and while BMW desperately wish it to be a new-millenium M635CSi, it's absolutely not, and wishing it to be so will not make it so. It's more a slightly revised 8-Series. I can't see a market for it, unless there's a mass-defection from the XK8, which, incredibly, still seems to be shifting the units. (Incidentally, had an opportunity to compare performance of my 1.8i Focus with an XK8 the other day, and was less than impressed, until 85mph, when it breezed past me, only for me to take 200m off it under braking).

CLK sales seem to have dropped away (Mercedes beginning to get a reputation for unreliability in UK now), and with the base-model 911 dropping relatively in price, there's less of a compelling argument for purchasing something else new, especially when one can get a 2yo 911 for sensible money.

So. I see a short shelf-life for 6-Series and X3. I await 1- and 4-Series with interest, and it will be interesting to see what the reskinned 7- looks like. Overall though, I see a retrenchement into the core 3-, 5-, 7-, Z4 markets. BMW's next important car will be the next X5. If they get that wrong, they're in a mire of poo.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie

Is there space between 3- and 5- for a 4-Series?

Isn't BMW 4 just a new name for 3-series coupe?
It will make coupe version more exclusive (Mercedes did the same thing with with CLK), which will add something to the price.


Originally posted by M5Power

Go to, like, Slovakia - I bet they'll have Superbs all over the place.

I don't think so, since Superb has prices equal (if not higher) as the Passat. Superb is for Skoda something like Phaeton for VW.
 
Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Is there space between 3- and 5- for a 4-Series?

I don't think that will really be an issue. The price difference between a coupe and sedan is only a couple grand (in the NA market anyway) The badge change to the "4" will only be differentiate the number of doors, not to move the coupe up-market away from the sedan.

FWIW, I think the 3 AND the 4 WILL move upmarket, but together. E90 is reportedly signifigantly larger than the E46.


Originally posted by GilesGuthrie
Personally, I think that 6-Series is going to fail, because it's very expensive, and it's very big, and while BMW desperately wish it to be a new-millenium M635CSi, it's absolutely not, and wishing it to be so will not make it so.

Really? That's odd because I think the 6 will do quite well (at least in the States)

The 8 failed for two reasons: price and weight. The 6 is priced right at the 911 instead of at the Turbo, and weighs almost 400 lbs less than the 8 (3,750 lbs). As an alternative to the 996, CL and XK-8, I think it makes a pretty convincing argument.

The 4.4 V8 and dynamic drive are key to giving the 6 legs that the 8 never had. It should be a mid 13 second car, just a couple ticks behind an M3, and will probably match its handling. I don't think anyone that hasn't driven a new BMW with the dynamic drive can truly understand what it does to the handling --it is astounding.

It probably won't match the 996 in outright speed, but I think BMW is trying to position it as a softer GT alternative to the 911, but sportier than the CL and XK-8.


///M-Spec
 
But I doubt that Superbs share in the export figures is any higher than 5%. Fabia is one of the best selling cars in many Eastern European countries. Octavia is also selling far better than Superb.
 
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