Want to get the X1 but....

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@yabiggoose
@RacerPaul

Well, do I need to be concerned about what model it is? I.e. Date of Manufacturing and stuff like that?

I don't suppose there have been any hardware revisions since launch? (Kinda like what we had with the X360 - Falcon or Jasper chipsets)

I imagine I'd have to get some kind of update as soon as I fire up the console. Speaking of which, I need to get the controller update, that's one... can you gentlemen identify other updates a first-time X1 gamer needs to get?

While we're on the subject, how long do you think it's going to take to download all three of the free DLC tracks on a 4 MB DSL connection?

Cheers lads!
 
Touch wood, the original Ones seem to be pretty infallible, thanks in part to over engineering in the cooling system. There were some issues with early disc drives, but I don't recall hearing any massive technical problems recently.
 
VXR
There were some issues with early disc drives, but I don't recall hearing any massive technical problems recently.

I have an XBone from the first batch of them in North America and mine has some problems with the optical drive. I haven't taken it apart yet to figure out what's going on, but it seems as if the disc doesn't get seated properly or the mechanics inside don't engage in time....
After a couple of re-inserts of the disc, the game will finally read.

Never the less, I believe Microsoft compensates those with such systems with a new console and a free downloadable game. I didn't contact them because I couldn't be less bothered.
 
I'll be honest. I never was a Forza person. The one time I did try was roughly 7 years ago when FM3 launched. (I rented a lot of games last gen, and I don't feel a least bit guilty of it.) The issue for me not enjoying Forza was that the controls were too strict. [Not tight, just strict.] That still didn't stop me from enjoying the 360.

This gen, however, I will be a strictly a PS4 man. It's not about the racing games that would come down the pipe, because I do enjoy them, but rather the performance of the PS4 is a lot better than the X1. That, and Microsoft needs to learn a lesson that first impressions are bloody well important.
 
I'll be honest. I never was a Forza person. The one time I did try was roughly 7 years ago when FM3 launched. (I rented a lot of games last gen, and I don't feel a least bit guilty of it.) The issue for me not enjoying Forza was that the controls were too strict. [Not tight, just strict.] That still didn't stop me from enjoying the 360.

This gen, however, I will be a strictly a PS4 man. It's not about the racing games that would come down the pipe, because I do enjoy them, but rather the performance of the PS4 is a lot better than the X1. That, and Microsoft needs to learn a lesson that first impressions are bloody well important.

Yeap, I hear that. The PS4 is faster, thanks to faster RAM and additional bandwidth, though it remains to be seen which console comes out with the better games. Had GT been released by now (along with the March release of PCARS), I might have settled for one as well, though Forza is where my heart's at.

Plus I reckon the X1 might have trouble running CARS at a locked 60 fps, otherwise Forza 5 would have at least had night driving, if not weather.

Anyway, the strict control you speak of is because of the hidden controller aids. You should play Forza 4 and 5 with a good wheel to experience it in all it's glory. Too bad you never got into 4; it's probably their best work to date, even though F5 does have significantly better physics, audio and visuals.
 
Here's the thing with dismissing, or quite frankly considering one console over another in regards to hardware: if you're that concerned with hardware you have absolutely no control over because you're worried about frame stuttering, resolution, or which console has faster RAM, you're already doing it wrong and would be better off with a PC - you know, a platform that's actually open-ended?
 
Here's the thing with dismissing, or quite frankly considering one console over another in regards to hardware: if you're that concerned with hardware you have absolutely no control over because you're worried about frame stuttering, resolution, or which console has faster RAM, you're already doing it wrong and would be better off with a PC - you know, a platform that's actually open-ended?
The issue with me playing games on a PC isn't because I don't have the hardware to keep up with the games, on the contrary. I prefer to play on console because of portability. I have a laptop bag that I use just to carry consoles. I have managed to fit anything from a 360 to even a fat PS3 in the bag with little issue whatsoever. Nothing too difficult about it.
 
In my opinion a PC and one console is a must. For example, sports games rarely come to PC in the same way they do for console and if they do they're generally not as good. Also games that are console only like Red Dead Redemption for example. On the PC, the numerous strategy games, Racing Sims, Flight Sims, virtually endless modding opportunities, early access to games of interest to me... etc.

I care about specs on console even if they're significantly weaker than my PC because I still want the best experience of the third party games I can't experience on my PC. A lesser of two evils if you like. And, in time, when a decent amount of first party exclusives are out and the price is right, I'll get the other console too.

That being said, and getting back on topic, I think the differences are not too big. Looking at the pCARS vids for the PS4 and XB1 the only things I noticed were the aliasing on the xb1 was more apparent probably due to the resolution, the DOF in helmet cam was a lot rougher, windscreen reflections whilst in interior view were of a lesser quality and there was some tearing in the rain.

Some of these things may be ironed out or already have been and if I had my heart set on an xb1 I would not change my mind because of these things
 
In my opinion a PC and one console is a must.
That's largely depending on what games and genres someone enjoys, though. Plus, with Windows 10 touting cross-platform compatibility between XBone games and PC games, there might be less Xbox games that don't get a PC port (which might make sense, so MS can make some more money on those despite the XBone having a smaller installation base than the PS4). Oh, how I'd love Forza getting a PC port :D Can't really see that happening, though, not for a game that's a potential system seller...
 
But that's not what it would mean. Increasing the resolution doesn't make gameplay designers dumber.
Of course not, but there's clearly a necessary trade-off on consoles between Resolution and Frame-Rate. I know which I'd rather prioritize personally but I suppose it is down to taste.
 
The trade-off isn't just between resolution and framerate. You can have 60fps and 1080p if you reduce polygon count antialiasing and various other stuff.

I prefer framerate over almost everything else, but having things rendered at your display's native resolution makes the graphics look a lot cleaner.
 
The trade-off isn't just between resolution and framerate. You can have 60fps and 1080p if you reduce polygon count antialiasing and various other stuff.

I prefer framerate over almost everything else, but having things rendered at your display's native resolution makes the graphics look a lot cleaner.

Ditto, nothing beats the feeling you get from the game, the fluidity, the immersion.. that you get out of 60 fps games.

Sometimes, I wish I had one o'dem motion-enhanced 200 or 400 Hz (or something) TV's to artificially up the frames. Though I'm told it looks unnatural, while introducing undesirable effects and artifacts.
 
Ok, this looks like it's turning into one of those "PC vs. Console" Threads...

Allow me to save you all some time and effort and fast forward to the inevitable end result of this debate....

PC will win. Every. Time.
Unlike consoles, they aren't limited to "generations."

And the the consoles? (PS4/XBone)
They're like two suit jackets....they both do the same thing, but one is slightly better tailored (PS4)

In the end, the consoles will narrow you down to exclusives. (Gran Turismo / Forza Motorsport)

That's why I own both of them....but neither of them could hold a candle next to my PC...
 
Ok, this looks like it's turning into one of those "PC vs. Console" Threads...

Allow me to save you all some time and effort and fast forward to the inevitable end result of this debate....

PC will win. Every. Time.
Unlike consoles, they aren't limited to "generations."

And the the consoles? (PS4/XBone)
They're like two suit jackets....they both do the same thing, but one is slightly better tailored (PS4)

In the end, the consoles will narrow you down to exclusives. (Gran Turismo / Forza Motorsport)

That's why I own both of them....but neither of them could hold a candle next to my PC...
Well said.👍
 
If you go by specs PS4 should be your choice. Steam box is another option if you do not want PC. Which depending on model is more powerful. Though optimization, support and longevity is a big gamble. But more flexible as you can adjust resolution, gfx settings just like a PC.

Also if you have any intentions of VR. PS4 is better option as Project Morpheus looks promising and will release next year. SMS said Pcars will also be compatible :odd: I guess GT7 will support it as well.
 
Very close to picking up the X1 lads!

One more area of concern, and it actually kept me up last night for a while (:lol::lol::lol:):

Does it matter if I get a PAL or NTSC system? (folks here do own NTSC systems as well as they have it delivered from the US/Canada or buy one themselves outside SE.Asia)

As I remember from last gen, and the ones before that, PAL systems were generally slower, 30 fps games running at 25 fps on PAL systems, and 60 fps NTSC games running at 45 or 50 fps on PAL systems. In addition, there was also a lag you would always feel when playing the same game on a PAL console.

Thoughts?
 
Very close to picking up the X1 lads!

One more area of concern, and it actually kept me up last night for a while (:lol::lol::lol:):

Does it matter if I get a PAL or NTSC system? (folks here do own NTSC systems as well as they have it delivered from the US/Canada or buy one themselves outside SE.Asia)

As I remember from last gen, and the ones before that, PAL systems were generally slower, 30 fps games running at 25 fps on PAL systems, and 60 fps NTSC games running at 45 or 50 fps on PAL systems. In addition, there was also a lag you would always feel when playing the same game on a PAL console.

Thoughts?
I could have sworn consoles this gen where region free. I'm not exactly sure, maybe someone can chime in on that.
 
Very close to picking up the X1 lads!

One more area of concern, and it actually kept me up last night for a while (:lol::lol::lol:):

Does it matter if I get a PAL or NTSC system? (folks here do own NTSC systems as well as they have it delivered from the US/Canada or buy one themselves outside SE.Asia)

As I remember from last gen, and the ones before that, PAL systems were generally slower, 30 fps games running at 25 fps on PAL systems, and 60 fps NTSC games running at 45 or 50 fps on PAL systems. In addition, there was also a lag you would always feel when playing the same game on a PAL console.

Thoughts?

Consoles today may have regional locks (but i am pretty sure PS3, PS4 and XB1 does not), but this has nothing to do with the TV signal formats anymore, after HD displays with HDMI connectivity became the standard.

Back when the two different systems were in use, NTSC games would not run at lower framerates on PAL systems. They would simply not run at all, because the consoles would not accept games from other regions. If you modified a PAL region console to run NTSC games, the games would run at the framerate they were intended to run at, but if your TV set didn't support 60hz output, you'd either get a messed up picture, or no picture on the screen at all.

The reason they are different in the first place, is that in the old days, television sets were made to refresh at the same rate as the electricity in people's houses were (for various reasons, i don't remember exactly), which was 50 hz in europe, but 60 hz in the US. In reality, the PAL and NTSC color formats are independent of the refresh rate of the signal, but because PAL TV sets also normally supported only 50 hz, it wasn't exactly much of a point in supplying 60hz content as well, as many users wouldn't have any use for it.

Starting at around the year 2000, TVs that would support almost any signal you threw at it became more and more common, which is why a fair amount of games on the PS2, especially those that relied on precise timing (tekken, an other fighting games for example), would support 60hz refresh rate modes even if it was a PAL game.

Other than the framerate, there wasn't any extra lag introduced on a pal system. However, some games terribly ported, and instead of adjusting animations so that each movement had fewer frames, they instead slowed game's graphics down by approximately 16%, making animations and gameplay very sluggy. For example, running in some games started looking like you were actually walking on the moon.

However, because the two signal standards have also become synonymous with the region the standards are used in, some consoles that still use regional locks may still use those terms to distinguish between regions.

Personally, I think this is very funny on handheld game systems, which in fact use neither PAL or NTSC, but still label their games as one of those.

Tinfoil mode: I think the manufacturers of these handheld consoles are trying to ensure that the majority of players still think there is an actual reason to keep regional locks, when in reality this is done solely to prevent imports so that they can segment the various markets in the world more easily and charge as much as possible in every area.
 
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Consoles today may have regional locks (but i am pretty sure PS3, PS4 and XB1 does not), but this has nothing to do with the TV signal formats anymore, after HD displays with HDMI connectivity became the standard.

Ah, yes I just confirmed this today from the guy selling it to me; he says ever since FULL HD has been introduced, all games on all region consoles run at 60 Hz and there's no lag or sluggish gameplay. If a game's running at 30 fps in the US, it'll run at exactly 30 fps in other non-US regions, so long as you have an HD/HDMI complaint TV.

**Back when the two different systems were in use, NTSC games would not run at lower framerates on PAL systems. They would simply not run at all**, because the consoles would not accept games from other regions. If you modified a PAL region console to run NTSC games, the games would run at the framerate they were intended to run at, but if your TV set didn't support 60hz output, you'd either get a messed up picture, or no picture on the screen at all.

In my previous post, I was pointing to the fact that PAL games generally ran slower on PAL systems as opposed to US games running on NTSC systems, not trying to run PAL games on an NTSC system or the other way around. For example, when I had a SNES, it was an NTSC system, and games like DKC and MK ran very smoothly, no lag. My mate had a PAL SNES, I could notice the lag and slower frames right away. Same was the case with Mega Drive, PS1 and PS2 games.

The reason they are different in the first place, is that in the old days, television sets were made to refresh at the same rate as the electricity in people's houses were (for various reasons, i don't remember exactly), which was 50 hz in europe, but 60 hz in the US. In reality, the PAL and NTSC color formats are independent of the refresh rate of the signal, but because PAL TV sets also normally supported only 50 hz, it wasn't exactly much of a point in supplying 60hz content as well, as many users wouldn't have any use for it.

Right, so you're reiterating that there are now no frame rate differences or noticeable lag IF you're running a game on a console that isn't NTSC? Doesn't matter which region it is, all games will run the same, and now you CAN run a PAL game on an NTSC X1 and the other way around? I just need to know we're on the same page, that's all.

Starting at around the year 2000, TVs that would support almost any signal you threw at it became more and more common, which is why a fair amount of games on the PS2, especially those that relied on precise timing (tekken, an other fighting games for example), would support 60hz refresh rate modes even if it was a PAL game.

👍

Other than the framerate, there wasn't any extra lag introduced on a pal system. However, some games terribly ported, and instead of adjusting animations so that each movement had fewer frames, they instead slowed game's graphics down by approximately 16%, making animations and gameplay very sluggy. For example, running in some games started looking like you were actually walking on the moon.

I noticed this on EVERY game my friend had on his PAL PS1. My NTSC version of WRC or Road Rash for example, ran noticeably smoother.

However, because the two signal standards have also become synonymous with the region the standards are used in, some consoles that still use regional locks may still use those terms to distinguish between regions.

Ah, right. So as of now, both the PS4 and X1 run Bluray disc games from all regions no matter what region your console is?

Personally, I think this is very funny on handheld game systems, which in fact use neither PAL or NTSC, but still label their games as one of those.

Tinfoil mode: I think the manufacturers of these handheld consoles are trying to ensure that the majority of players still think there is an actual reason to keep regional locks, when in reality this is done solely to prevent imports so that they can segment the various markets in the world more easily and charge as much as possible in every area.

Great response:tup: ! I appreciate the detailed and informative reply. Please ^^ expand above for comments

Cheers. :gtpflag:

I could have sworn consoles this gen where region free. I'm not exactly sure, maybe someone can chime in on that.

That's exactly what I heard when the PS4 and X1 were freshly unveiled. So in theory, there should be no frame rate, refresh or lag issues whatsoever. A gamer playing something in an Asian or Middle-eastern region should experience it exactly the same as a US or Canadian gamer, so long as all are on an HDTV with at least 1.3 HDMI or better.
 
I can confirm the X1 is region free, as my cheap copy of Zoo Tycoon off of Amazon UK is an NTSC region game.
 
Buying consoles based on specs is stupid, if you ask me. If specs were ultimately the final decision maker, then you'd go for a PC. Go for the console that best suits you; personally.

If I had to pick only one (PS4 or X1) I would go with the PS4, because of Naughty Dog and Gran Turismo. Those two (mostly ND) have me sold on the console. Even if I preferred the X1's GUI and its controllers; even if it had better specs; even if it came with a box full of cute puppies; I would still go for the PS4 because of the exclusives. That's why they exist, to draw consumers towards their respective products.

If you want an X1, think about what games you'd like. Forza Motorsport is the whole reason behind my X1 purchase. In fact, it was the whole reason behind my 360 purchase, as well. Microsoft has me buying an entirely new console every generation because of one single game. See how well exclusives pay out for publishers? :)

There's nothing bad about the X1. The whole specs battle is just a complex pissing contest. It's made a bigger deal this time around because people actually might understand the differences....contrary to the battles between the 360 and the PS3, where nobody but engineers could understand the true potential of the PS3's cell core structure. Otherwise, it was the same argument between specs back then; and look what a difference it made. None.

If you get the X1, you better add me on Live....Forza awaits...
 
VXR
I can confirm the X1 is region free, as my cheap copy of Zoo Tycoon off of Amazon UK is an NTSC region game.

Arite, that confirms it. I just hope there's NO frame rate or refresh difference between NTSC and PAL Bluray discs. Probably not.. just something swimming around at the back of my head.

Buying consoles based on specs is stupid, if you ask me. If specs were ultimately the final decision maker, then you'd go for a PC. Go for the console that best suits you; personally.

If I had to pick only one (PS4 or X1) I would go with the PS4, because of Naughty Dog and Gran Turismo. Those two (mostly ND) have me sold on the console. Even if I preferred the X1's GUI and its controllers; even if it had better specs; even if it came with a box full of cute puppies; I would still go for the PS4 because of the exclusives. That's why they exist, to draw consumers towards their respective products.

If you want an X1, think about what games you'd like. Forza Motorsport is the whole reason behind my X1 purchase. In fact, it was the whole reason behind my 360 purchase, as well. Microsoft has me buying an entirely new console every generation because of one single game. See how well exclusives pay out for publishers? :)

There's nothing bad about the X1. The whole specs battle is just a complex pissing contest. It's made a bigger deal this time around because people actually might understand the differences....contrary to the battles between the 360 and the PS3, where nobody but engineers could understand the true potential of the PS3's cell core structure. Otherwise, it was the same argument between specs back then; and look what a difference it made. None.

If you get the X1, you better add me on Live....Forza awaits...

As much as I want to go back to a Sony console (as it really does have faster memory and bandwidth, which may transform into better looking and performing multiplat titles), FM is probably the only reason I'm still gaming today. I go to shooters every now and then, but I'm primarily in it for the virtual driving experience, and there's absolutely nothing on the PS4 right now that would spark my interest.

I have an XBone from the first batch of them in North America and mine has some problems with the optical drive. I haven't taken it apart yet to figure out what's going on, but it seems as if the disc doesn't get seated properly or the mechanics inside don't engage in time....
After a couple of re-inserts of the disc, the game will finally read.

Never the less, I believe Microsoft compensates those with such systems with a new console and a free downloadable game. I didn't contact them because I couldn't be less bothered.

I just wanted to quickly ask: do you play F5 off the disc? Isn't that really slow?
 
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As much as I want to go back to a Sony console (as it really does have faster memory and bandwidth, which may transform into better looking and performing multiplat titles), FM is probably the only reason I'm still gaming today. I go to shooters every now and then, but I'm primarily in it for the virtual driving experience, and there's absolutely nothing on the PS4 right now that would spark my interest.
Multiplatform titles aren't going to be much different so thats something you shouldnt really worry about. We probably have some years before GT7 comes out as well, so you could just start saving now :P

I just wanted to quickly ask: do you play F5 off the disc? Isn't that really slow?
Unless its a digital download, its always going to be off disc.
 
You only use the discs for installing to the console for the first time and then to authenticate you own the game there after. It's not reading from disc in gameplay.
 

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